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Psychology of the comfort Zone especially for Tomla and other Bankrupt players It could be argued, who would travel many hours, pay for gas, tolls, stay overnight in AC gambling for a few hundred dollars? Well that might have carried more weight had that defence come from the poster himself, rather it was put forward by another board member.Originally Posted by Egalite
From my many years at the tables, it is fairly obvious that people have their personal comfort zone when it comes to actual bet value or unit value.
I’ve never seen a low roller comfortable starting at betting blacks or pinks. I’ve seen many high rollers become low rollers for obvious reasons and then become accustomed to betting at that level. I’ve seen low rollers dabble at being a high roller due to some windfall or compensation payout and they later revert back to being a low roller the following week.
This is not meant as a slight, by any means on low rollers, I have started out betting the table min many times. I even recall the most prominent poster on this forum comment about comfort zone. The comfort Zone exists in us all, it is a psychology barrier.
Let’s look at it another way, something the “careful” bettors amongst us can equate to or visualise. Say you’re a player that usually plays the table minimum in conjunction with a slight negative progression. Imagine you have been given $5000 to gamble with.
In most cases what would you do? It is my belief that most would bet the same unit value, however would make the bet with a lot of confidence, or perhaps increase their usual starting value two fold. If you are use to betting $5 or $10’s while using a negative progression, not many would start out betting $50 or $100 units. Making a bet of 5 x $100, feels a lot different than making a bet of 5 x $10, even if you do have the backup bankroll.
You may even play your normal game albeit more aggressively, or perhaps take your negative progression further. From what I have seen and speaking from personal experience, if you have extra cash, you don’t suddenly double or triple everything. Most would save the extra for reserve, you have a different psychology having bought in for a few hundred knowing you have another 4.8K in your back pocket. Not many veterans would buy in for a few thou’ straight away.
I have mentioned on a few occasions how I won a lot of money using a very aggressive Fibonacci, and lost when I doubled my unit value, that is because I wouldn’t take the new revised unit value to the same depth. I was out of my comfort zone to place that amount of money on the flip of some cards. Even though I had placed bigger bets prior to this.
We all have our comfort zone, could be based on sensibility, bankroll availability, risk aversion, or simply due to too many prior losses. Once you have it, it can be difficult psychologically to step beyond it. It is my opinion you would have to had won a lot of money or been winning fairly consistently before doubling everything up, never mind increasing four or twenty fold.
Now look at it from another angle, the High Roller. Those that are comfortable betting black or stacks of Pink, i.e. some of the Chinese I mingle with “often”, think absolutely nothing of throwing a table min chip on the table when they don’t fancy a bet. They think nothing of it, win or lose, if they win, will double it up, again don’t care what the outcome is.
Would a $200 bettor act the same? From what I have seen, YES, no need to sit out so many hands, because you have a high comfort zone, therefore betting the table minimum is insignificant. Which then leads me to the question, why would it matter if the High Roller went 1-2-3 or 1-1-3, for the sake of the cost of a unit? The answer is, they wouldn’t.
If the High Roller wanted to save themselves the cost of a unit and I do fail to see why, wouldn’t it make more sense to say drop to playing $100 units rather than $200 units. Of course he may just like using a 1-1-3 progression.
Or just maybe they wouldn’t use expressions such as this.
From: ****** ******* (name removed, author GR8)
To: Jon Anon
Subject: Re: Baccarat
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:32:18 -0700 (PDT)
<snip>
Yet, I find myself winning many first bets, so the "push" at bet #2 is not really hurting me. Wouldn't you agree, John, that if you have a decent bet selection that doesn't (generally) fall into long losing streaks, that something like a 1-1-3 might be best to handle it without "going nuts" with a marty.
<snip>
“hurting me”??? High Rollers don’t usually hurt over the cost of one unit. They can afford it, otherwise wouldn’t be playing at that level.
I will repeat what I stated above, in my many years at the tables, I have yet to meet any low roller become comfortable with playing the high roller. I’ve seen low rollers make big bets, but that is not the same thing.
The purpose of this post, is not to pick on the little guy, we have all played the little guy at one time or other. Nor does it matter what anybodies betting value is, I really don’t care, it’s none of my business, there is no competition.
However and you can choose to agree to disagree, if you believe that “the comfort zone” exists for us all. How is it be possible for a former $10 bettor suddenly move their comfort zone to betting $200 units. You would have to agree, it’s highly unlikely, or that they where never betting $10 unit in the first place.
Face it stepping up from $10 to $200 units is not going to happen. Even stepping up from $10 to $100, ain’t likely either. Maybe $10 to $20 or $25 units after proven success.
As I have mentioned elsewhere, when I realised that somebody could get that excited in making those few units at that value (search the archives for gr8 first appearance on the board) , I ceased my communication, as I soon realised somebody must have either a warped sense of humour or a few screws loose. Having played with a fair number of "been around the block too many times" types, I made my mind up, what I was dealing with.
However the following should provide the obvious clue.
John, thanks again for your input, for it is always appreciated. As to your question regarding the loss of 5 units (1-1-3), I generally wait for 10 units down, then increase my betting unit. If down another 10 units, I'll increase again. Never got worse than that, as yet, both in my testing and my actual play. The "jury is still out" on this, though, because you can NEVER test enough to know for CERTAIN. Here's hoping!
If somebody is 10 units down, then proposes to increase their betting value and is willing to increase it yet again. First off do the maths, 10 x ?? = ?? unknown value and that is only stage one.
You repeat the same YET AGAIN, 10 x ?? = ??, do the (possible) maths. You could say that is one hell of a draw down, if you where starting off playing even $25 dollar units. I think it’s safe to assume the starting unit wasn’t $50, $100 and definitely not $200 back then.
People change, well I subscribe to people changing their bet selection, however changing their unit size, for a 20 fold increase in the space of two years, well talk about moving one’s comfort zone and we are not talking about just for one session.
However, after the above email, I did posed the question regarding unit value. The answer which came back was $10, while this is fine and acceptable given the 3 layered MM approach, no problem with that at all. Hang on a minute, this guy starts with a $10 base, (fine) but shouts from the rafters that he sometimes only makes 3 or 4 units profit per session, like he has hit the jackpot. I choose not to reply further and couldn’t understand how somebody could get that excited over making 3 or 4 units per session.
This may give you a better understanding, if you are intelligent enough, but I don't care either way
So what sane person would incur all those travel expenses for minimal returns, firstly who said there was anything sane when it comes to gambling. So we can dismiss any rational reasoning, it simply doesn't have to fit the picture when it applies to 35 year gambling veteran who has already lost "a quarter of a million dollars"is seriously addicted (you would have to be seriously addicted having already lost $250k and continuing, but hey, that's gambling for ya).Let me tell you how it's been for me. Over 20 years ago I started playing baccarat. I THOUGHT this was one easy game. Well, about $250,000 later (and lighter), I found out the TRUTH about me and the casino. BUUUT, rather than turn and run, I decided to do something about it. I was going to "perfect" my play, no matter what.
Gambler's Glen Message Boards : Roulette Archive (2007) : Your Holy Grail, a secret affair ?
$10 action bets can be just as good as $100 bets, as it keeps them in the game, avoids dealing with reality, besides the travel expenses are more than likely shared.While some posts are best left buried in the anals of web-sites, it appears both Tomla's and Bankrupt Jimbo Archer have more than just a passing interest.You know what, I don't live "around the corner" from AC and my time is valuable (I'm a Family man). For me to go down there for an overnite stay (and late at nite on Thursdays as well) to pick up just 2.5 units is a bit disheartening. The last few trips, when added together, just aren't paying off as I would have liked or expected. I must improve my win rate, and I will continue in my efforts to do so.
Gambler's Glen Message Boards : Baccarat Message Board : Trip Report #6
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