Thread: Mohegan Sun Casino Dragon Bonus

For those of you in the connecticut area, mohegan sun casino now has the dragon bonus, like foxwoods.

Ah they are following suit as Foxwoods had them for a good while.

How many open tables are there? I have not dropping by since I am avoiding CT casinos since I find them to be very petty and cheap when it comes to comps. At Foxwoods they have closed up many regular and Dragon Bonus tables for that crap EZ Bac. EZ Bac is cannibalizing other bac tables and looks like not very beneficial long term.

I saw only 3 or 4 tables with the dragon at mohegan.

They may add more later.

Didnt see any EZ bacc tables at mohegan.

Probably will see a lot more dealer errors now since they have more work to do figuring the bonus pay outs........especially the last hour of the shift when the dealers get tired and burned out and just want to get out of there and go home.

Cool. Thanks. Hopefully Mohegun doesn't follow suit with that EZ Bac garbage.

Dragon Bonus errors are going to happen even when there are experienced dealers involved. I see it happening many times at the high limit area at Foxwoods. When you are a dealer who sees tons of chips all over the table your mind is going to go buck wild. And yes if they are in the last hours of their shift it is going to lay on the mental implosion. It can work in your favor since at times you get a payout when the dealer should be taking your chips or when he/she deals the wrong sequence of cards causing a ruckus of 12 Player or Banker results.

I used to keep track of the dealer mistakes I've seen........but I stopped.

I've seen every type of mistake imaginable.....as I said above, especially during the last hour of the shift.....that's when a lot of mistakes happen.

Just back from Mohegan Sun and all the mini bac tables now have the dragon bonus.

The big bac ( $ 100 min ) dont have them .....but may have them in the future.

Saw alot of dealer mistakes calculating the dragon and then calculating banker commissions and payouts.

The dealer job just got a lot harder and now a shoe will take about 20 minutes longer. I feel sorry for the dealer, especially if it's a full table and everyone bets banker and the banker dragon and banker wins the hand with some type of dragon payout.....what a nightmare figuring all this stuff out.

Also the table layout is terrible and confusing......the seat # 8 bet for Player is near the edge of the table and I think alot of past posting bets will be tried there.

Here are the dragon rule for those who dont know them.

The rules are the same for player and banker so I will just describe them for the player.

To start, if you bet player, you have to bet the player dragon. If you bet banker, you have to bet the banker dragon.

If you bet player and bet the dragon for player, you of course lose your player bet and the dragon bet for player if banker wins.

If you bet Player and bet the player dragon, if the hand is a tie, you LOSE the dragon bet.

If you bet player and the player dragon and player wins by 1,2 or 3 points, you Lose the dragon bet and of course win the player bet.

If you bet player and the player dragon and player wins by 4 or 5 points you win 2 to 1 on the dragon bet and of course win the player bet

If you bet player and the player dragon and player wins by 6 or 7 points, you win 4 to 1 on the dragon bet and of course you win the player bet.

If you bet player and the player dragon and player wins by 8 points, you win the player bet and win 10 to 1 on the dragon bet ( this rarely happens ).

If you bet player and the player dragon and player wins by 9 points, you win the player bet and 30 to 1 on the dragon bet. ( Note that if player has a natural nine and banker has a zero, this does NOT count as winning by nine points. Cards must be drawn for the 30 to 1 payout - this might happen once every two or three shoes )

If you bet player and player wins with a natural 8 or 9, you of course win the player bet and EVEN MONEY on the dragon bet.

If you bet player and both player and banker has the same natural, ( for example player has a 10 and an 8 and banker has a 10 and an 8 ) you PUSH the dragon bet and PUSH the player bet.

The casino makes their money if the hand is a tie or if you win the hand by only 1,2 or 3 points.

Not sure what the casino edge is on this type of payout......I'll have to look it up on the internet.

From the wizard of odds web site, the player has a -2.65 house edge and the banker has a -9.37 house edge.

But the wizard's table shows that a win of 4 points only pays even money where mohegan pays 2 to 1 for a 4 point win so the house edge is probably a little less.

Nevertheless, it appears that is you bet the dragon, only bet it for Player.

Maybe you should sit it out from playing Dragon at Mohegun until they find a footing in this side bet. This is the same thing that happened with Foxwoods when this was introduced some two years ago a few months after the failed Macau rolling chip program.

The odds maybe incorrect and needs updating because the odds varies depending on the shuffle.

I have not been to Mohegun for a while, always went to Foxwoods, but does Mohegun cut half a deck from the back?

They have a marker on the back of the shoe which looks like its between 15 and 25 cards which get cut off at the end of the shoe.

They dont show you the cards which get cut off at the end of the shoe.

They used to cut off I think it was 14 cards from the end of the shoe and show them to you......but they stopped that because they thought there was some sort of scam going on.

At the beginning of a new shoe, they turn over a card and bury the number of the card ( if its a 10, they burn 10 cards face up etc etc. An ace counts as a one )

Havent been to foxwoods in a while so not sure what's going on there.

Ah okay. Thanks.

Same kind of shuffle at Foxwoods + Atlantic City. The 14 cards cut shuffle is not used anymore. It is the half a deck cut from the back. Then the show card cut and then the deck plays.

To start, if you bet player, you have to bet the player dragon. If you bet banker, you have to bet the banker dragon

? You have to take this side bet!!!

Dang, it seems that the orientals go wild for the most ridiculous side bets, crazy, hey hey.

? You have to take this side bet!!!

From two posts above.....no, you do not have to take the dragon side bet......its optional.

Also one correction to my rules post above.......you can bet on player and also bet the dragon on banker.

Also, the reverse is true...you can bet on banker and also bet the dragon on player.

Which makes the dragon bet interesting as a hedge bet.....such as bet $ 20 on banker and bet $ 5 on player dragon.

Food for thought for LOTI as far as testing goes.

Originally Posted by DiMenosCor

Ah okay. Thanks.

Same kind of shuffle at Foxwoods + Atlantic City. The 14 cards cut shuffle is not used anymore. It is the half a deck cut from the back. Then the show card cut and then the deck plays.

Trump plaza AC at mini bac cuts off 2 decks from the back before exposing the first card then the burn cards also wash after every shoe

Originally Posted by gerard711

Trump plaza AC at mini bac cuts off 2 decks from the back before exposing the first card then the burn cards also wash after every shoe

2 decks off the back? No way. When did this happen???? Is this just at Trump or is this some new Atlantic City standard? The half a deck cut was bad enough already.

That sucks.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by DiMenosCor

2 decks off the back? No way. When did this happen???? Is this just at Trump or is this some new Atlantic City standard? The half a deck cut was bad enough already.

That sucks.

Thanks.

As far as I know just Trump. they have a guide on the side of the shoe pre measured the cut card is slipped in and 2 decks of the back you wind up with like 60-64 hands from an 8 deck shoe ,and they have shuffle master machines ,this is regular mini ,dont know about high limit but Im sure its the same this started like 6 months ago and the pit checks the dealer when putting the cut card in to make sure about the 2 decks

Originally Posted by tomddxx

Which makes the dragon bet interesting as a hedge bet.....such as bet $ 20 on banker and bet $ 5 on player dragon.

Hmmm not so sure. It would be like hedging a bet by talking the Tie which would have a lot worst odds than the main bet. But I do know what you mean. There is a casino not far from me, that offers 250/1 odds of predicting a TIE score!!!!

Originally Posted by Egalite

There is a casino not far from me, that offers 250/1 odds of predicting a TIE score!!!!

Egalite,

250/1 on a tie score??? I'll assume you mean the actual card value. Is that correct?

Is it a particular tie score, ie 0-0 or 1-1 or can it be ANY declared tie score?

Is there any other wager required to make that particular play?

Where is the casino and what time do they open?

AD

Originally Posted by gerard711

As far as I know just Trump. they have a guide on the side of the shoe pre measured the cut card is slipped in and 2 decks of the back you wind up with like 60-64 hands from an 8 deck shoe ,and they have shuffle master machines ,this is regular mini ,dont know about high limit but Im sure its the same this started like 6 months ago and the pit checks the dealer when putting the cut card in to make sure about the 2 decks

Trump Plaza has been doing this for almost three years. The high limit room cuts about 1.5 decks.

I used to play there regularly when I was getting started. They used to
count 14 cards then one day went to this. This was when some players
were hiting them hard at the tie bet.

Originally Posted by ADulay

Egalite,

250/1 on a tie score??? I'll assume you mean the actual card value. Is that correct?

Is it a particular tie score, ie 0-0 or 1-1 or can it be ANY declared tie score?

Is there any other wager required to make that particular play?

Where is the casino and what time do they open?

AD

Yeah the actual TIE score, Don't recall which score pays 250/1, but you can be sure it ain't zero. A person won it once. It's bad enough trying to predict a Tie, never mind the actual score of the Tie, the casino in question is this side of the ditch in the North West.

Originally Posted by Egalite

Hmmm not so sure. It would be like hedging a bet by talking the Tie which would have a lot worst odds than the main bet. But I do know what you mean. There is a casino not far from me, that offers 250/1 odds of predicting a TIE score!!!!

Really. Start card counting 10 s.
Hell, at 250 to 1 start counting something.

Better ring up GBV and get him on the case.

Originally Posted by Profbac

Really. Start card counting 10 s.
Hell, at 250 to 1 start counting something.

Better ring up GBV and get him on the case.

If you put £150 (table max) on the Tie on the last hand and won, you would soon be shown the exit

OK, did some checking on this. It did sound too good to be true. It was.

It appears that you need to have both Player and Banker having a tied hand of 9 with SUITED ACE-8 hands.

Uh, I'll pass on that one.

Good thing I didn't buy the airline ticket too fast!!

Once again the casino is using some kind of gimmicky game to get you to hand over your money. Why else would they keep changing the basic game?

AD (I'll stick with the basic game, thank you)

Mastering the two Player and Banker decisions are more than enough. All the other decisions with those so-called high payouts are major sucker bets in my opinion. Especially that new Dragon 7 bet that pays 40 to 1.

Not only are these bets terrible, the shuffle of the cards that go with them make things even worse. I know one has to always adapt and change his/her ways of wagering and play but the outcomes and shoes have been "brutal" to many to say the least.

Originally Posted by DiMenosCor

Mastering the two Player and Banker decisions are more than enough. All the other decisions with those so-called high payouts are major sucker bets in my opinion. Especially that new Dragon 7 bet that pays 40 to 1.

Not only are these bets terrible, the shuffle of the cards that go with them make things even worse. I know one has to always adapt and change his/her ways of wagering and play but the outcomes and shoes have been "brutal" to many to say the least.

Curious, how have shoe outcomes differed as a result of new shuffle procedure, hey hey.

Originally Posted by ADulay

OK, did some checking on this. It did sound too good to be true. It was.

It appears that you need to have both Player and Banker having a tied hand of 9 with SUITED ACE-8 hands.

Uh, I'll pass on that one.

Good thing I didn't buy the airline ticket too fast!!

Once again the casino is using some kind of gimmicky game to get you to hand over your money. Why else would they keep changing the basic game?

AD (I'll stick with the basic game, thank you)

Don't know where you got that info from, but that is not what is on offer. It doesn't matter what the card composition is, you just need to predict the tie value.

is the exact tie score based on the total value of cards drawn?

say like A 10 10 = 21

or

A 10 10 = 1?

If its the latter then at 250-1 it seems the best odds on the table cos you just need to place a bet from 0 through 9 from the beginning and you have a certain winner on a prolonged game...

Originally Posted by tomddxx

? You have to take this side bet!!!

From two posts above.....no, you do not have to take the dragon side bet......its optional.

Also one correction to my rules post above.......you can bet on player and also bet the dragon on banker.

Also, the reverse is true...you can bet on banker and also bet the dragon on player.

Which makes the dragon bet interesting as a hedge bet.....such as bet $ 20 on banker and bet $ 5 on player dragon.

Food for thought for LOTI as far as testing goes.

Hedging works, I've done it many times as an insurance when playing the dragon bonus. But the only thing is, you can lose a lot too hedging! I remember, the whole table wagered on Player as there was a streak and I too wagered on Player but placed table minimum on Banker Dragon Bonus. Guess what, Banker won and I didn't lose as much as I should of, if only wagered on Player.

Originally Posted by soxfan

Curious, how have shoe outcomes differed as a result of new shuffle procedure, hey hey.

These are the forms of shuffles I have encountered. I started this baccarat thing in 2006.

1) Shuffle Master - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
2) Shuffle Master - Card Washing - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
3) Card Washing - Shuffle Master - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
4) Card Washing - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
5) Card Washing - Symmetric deck hand shuffle - 14 card cut- Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
6) Symmetric deck hand shuffle - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
7) Shuffle Master - Player cuts deck - half a deck cut - show card cut. 8 Decks
8) Symmetric deck hand shuffle - Player cuts deck - half a deck cut - show card cut. 8 Decks
9) Flower Card Washing - Player cuts deck - half a deck cut - show cart cut. 8 Decks --- EZ Baccarat

These past two weeks for the East Coast casinos things have changed very dramatically. gerard711 stressed that Trump AC they cut two decks which now leaves really 6 decks to play. Now accounting for the show card cut now it is really less than 6 decks. I just got back from Foxwoods this morning and now they are cutting a full deck.

For the baccarat player, the more cards in the shoe the more advantages to you. The shoes will be a diversified forms of sequences - clump, streaks and choppy. If you record your shoes horizontally, you would notice row two spacing is very tight. The tighter spacing of row two the more clumpy the shoe. Shuffle choices 1 - 6.

When there are less cards in the deck it is a disadvantage to the player. Row 2 spacing would be wide. Very choppy. You are going to get smacked around a lot. You would have bigger draw downs. Your turnover (your total amount wager for the shoe) would be higher.

I think I know what the casinos are trying to do. One subtle observation is during the show card cut. I have noticed that most of the time (don't know the percentage since I have not calculated the probability) a face card is first shown and ten cards are taken out. There maybe at times a number card is shown but that happens less. And within these ten cards taken out of the deck most of them are number cards and many high number cards are taken out. Two to four cards of 7's, 8s and 9s are taken away from play. Face and 10 cards doesn't take much hold in this part of the cut. So what does this all mean? The casinos are trying to take out as many number cards as possible and fill up the majority of the deck with face cards and 10 cards. They want to "take out" the CLUMPY sequence of a shoe.

Originally Posted by DiMenosCor

These are the forms of shuffles I have encountered. I started this baccarat thing in 2006.

1) Shuffle Master - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
2) Shuffle Master - Hand spread shuffle - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
3) Hand spread shuffle - Shuffle Master - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
4) Hand spread shuffle - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
5) Hand spread shuffle - Symmetric deck hand shuffle - 14 card cut- Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
6) Symmetric deck hand shuffle - 14 card cut - Player cuts deck - show card cut. 8 Decks
7) Shuffle Master - Player cuts deck - half a deck cut - show card cut. 8 Decks
8) Symmetric deck hand shuffle - Player cuts deck - half a deck cut - show card cut. 8 Decks
9) Flower hand shuffle - Player cuts deck - half a deck cut - show cart cut. 8 Decks --- EZ Baccarat

These past two weeks for the East Coast casinos things have changed very dramatically. gerard711 stressed that Trump AC they cut two decks which now leaves really 6 decks to play. Now accounting for the show card cut now it is really less than 6 decks. I just got back from Foxwoods this morning and now they are cutting a full deck.

For the baccarat player, the more cards in the shoe the more advantages to you. The shoes will be a diversified forms of sequences - clump, streaks and choppy. If you record your shoes horizontally, you would notice row two spacing is very tight. The tighter spacing of row two the more clumpy the shoe. Shuffle choices 1 - 6.

When there are less cards in the deck it is a disadvantage to the player. Row 2 spacing would be wide. Very choppy. You are going to get smacked around a lot. You would have bigger draw downs. Your turnover (your total amount wager for the shoe) would be higher.

I think I know what the casinos are trying to do. One subtle observation is during the show card cut. I have noticed that most of the time (don't know the percentage since I have not calculated the probability) a face card is first shown and ten cards are taken out. There maybe at times a number card is shown but that happens less. And within these ten cards taken out of the deck most of them are number cards and many high number cards are taken out. Two to four cards of 7's, 8s and 9s are taken away from play. Face and 10 cards doesn't take much hold in this part of the cut. So what does this all mean? The casinos are trying to take out as many number cards as possible and fill up the majority of the deck with face cards and 10 cards. They want to "take out" the CLUMPY sequence of a shoe.

There must be some way to take advantage of these chaotic shoes produced by new shuffle procedures, hey hey.