Craps system that beats Zumma and 72 hours

[krapper007]

Thanks for the clarification. My statistics above is for line decisions only, pass line winners, don't pass winners and bar decisions in the Zumma book.

Do you have similar statistics for come bets in the book, i.e. come bet winners, don't come bet winners and bar decisions in the come bet rolls? If these are readily available, can you furnish the numbers?

Thanks.

[guido1]

One reason for this whole post was to show that most of the people here are looking at the game of bac and looking for ways to beat the game with a small BR.

I have looked at the game and tested and the 5% kills any shot of a flat bet system working long term IMO and I wanted more people to look at the game of craps and ways to play it with small buy ins that seem to work and if not works for a very very very long time.

So I would like to ask after 55 posts 4 systems why there are so few people even looking at the game of craps When you have two people playing some of the systems live and posting good results I feel that craps is the best game to play. you do not have to play my way but I do feel that bac takes less money and seems to ofer some hope of long term profit

Small bankrolls... with just a few players posting good results.
Yes, see, this is sad.
These ideas need to be studied thoroughly, not just a few times and "hey, it works, let us run with it"

One must simulate millions of players playing the same way to see the distribution of results.
Bet selection, bet size AND bet size to Bankroll all go together in correct ratios. One too high, risk of ruin or bankroll bye-bye happens too often, one too low risks more bankroll ruin since the wins are too low for the risks taken.
One needs to look for balance.
Any system or method of play can win. And most all do at times.
We need to find out why it wins and why it can lose and the possible outcomes of both.

Since this thread is very long with mistakes in them, meaning you were unhappy with a certain betting system,
please post your 3 or 4 methods of play in a new post and link to other good posts if you wish and I do not mind programming them into WinCraps and running proper length sims to arrive at very accurate results so anyone would know what one could expect by playing a certain way.

Sometimes the results of two systems that do not do well by themselves gives a better insight to how they can work together with better results.

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Here is a craps thought for the day.
Say the pass line just won one time. A winner 7.
Now a point is established on the 6 and it goes down. 7 out line away, new shooter.

What just happened?
The win steak length for the pass line ended at 1. That is as far as it went. Simple.
But... the current lose streak is at 1 and it could go further. How much further?? would be nice to know within a certain amount of accuracy. Of course the pass line always has a 244/495 chance to win at the come out roll...

>>>> What does the math say or even simulations on win/lose streaks in 2 consecutive streak sequences?
Without showing the math formulas, here are results from the Zumma book and they are real close to the math and larger computer simulations.
~33% or 1 in 3 will match, meaning if the win streak length was 1, 1/3 of the time the lose streak will be exactly 1. In other words a W, L W ?
Of course, 66% of the time they will not be equal.
OK,
~66% of the time ( 2 out of 3) if the first streak length is X (algebra here) the next opposite streak will be X +/- 1 (X+1 or X-1) so if the pass line just won 3 times in a row as you came to the table, so the ending win streak is length 3, 66% of the time the losing streak that it is now currently at length 1, will be from 2 to 4. Example: WWWL could end up looking like WWWLLW, WWWLLLW, WWWLLLLW 66% of the distributions. So at least 2 losses in a row 66% chance.

Interesting.
How does one take advantage of this.
More to come later.
Enjoy!

Evo,
PS
be very specific on your betting systems, when to make a bet, when to stop, win goals, unit, bankroll etc. I can take it from there.
Dr G

[Evo]

since I started play I would guss six weeks or so. I have earned 115 dollars in free table play + 153.02 dollars in comps that I have used 24 dollars of that on food and the rest has been to fuel my car to off set the cost of going to the table. Also have been able to get free 160 dollars worth on concert tickets that I may use or sell on ebay. I am not sure what I am going to do. i use green chips with no odds If I did not count the over 100 dollars I have gotten in free gas for the car My flat bet system would still be up I don't know about 800 dollars or so but with the hours I have put in at the table is it worth the time?


So Dr G. I do not need it tested there is a chance that over my lifetime sample that runs of 1 will out number runs of 2 by more than 2 to 1 if so I will show a profit. If the life time sample from the same table does not then the fact that I only flat bet and have free table play + comps to over come the 1.4% Edge that I need to. Thank you for your time

+100 dollars today

[Evo]

195.00 in free play
comps in food and fuel for the car. 269.23 this has been for the last 90 days


just in the last 3 weeks I am over 50 units playing hitman I just thougt I would up date using green chips 40 unit buy in

flat bets only

[Evo]

Played today and finished +2 I got to +2 not long after being at the table and after a few hours of being down and reaching +2 again I ended the day. I kept tracking the table and my next 3 bets would have won so I could have reached my +4 but I did not. I did get 16.00 worth of food so 285.23 now in comps along with 195.00 in free play. I also have two free tickets to a concert that is sold out that I hope to sell and make 100 dollars. so once again this is not the best way to play but things could be much worse

[Evo]

308.23 now in comps along with 215.00 in free play I played again for the 2nd time this week and went +4 today and +2 Monday. Not great numbers but good ones

[swami]

I would just like to add that I have known Evo for several years. He is a very knowledgeable punter who tests systems extensively and is always willing to share his results. I would trust anything he writes about, and he is a good authority to pay atention to. love, swami

[sternamme]

Craps strategy is the perfect place to guide you through the game of craps that tells you how to play craps online.

[sillykiddo]

Hi evo
What is the system you are using in craps table???
Care to share ?


Thanks

[Evo]

I already have posted the craps system kiddo on the first page it is called hitman. I posted it twice so look for the one that said hitman updated. I do not have a bac system that I play live at this time

[victory12]

its ez you play dp or pass w money management---dont over stress ive run the numbers also--your not going to be able to find perfect numbers--but very close to--good luck

Tomla have you looked at my flat bet system? not having the exact numbers is what makes it work

people may say that the 2-1-3 is too dependent on the 2 to make the profit Well I want to know why when I change it to 1-1-2 It still makes a profit. I can't lower my bet lower than 1 unit and yet can I? Well if you think it is the fact that with both prgressions I have a 2 or a 3 in the same slot my flat bet system makes money and it just pits runs of 1 vs runs of 2

and it makes money I think the fact that I look at streaks as a single event and chops as a single even makes this work but the poit for this whole thread was to show that craps can be beaten with a much lower BR than Bac

I still would like to look at any MM that you people may have to build on this idea but I really want to see if

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would build on this and what the results would be

[Evo]

308.23 now in comps food and gas along with 235.00 in free play, I went +4 today.

I wish I would have kept better records of my winnings. I started with 1000 dollars in a bank account. with another 4 set aside. I know I have spent 800 towards a TV. Took my winnings a tried to move over and do a odds betting system that took me for 700 dollars I lost my first buy in. so -700 I also had a bad day playing this system and kept staying 8 units down so what did I do start playing a progression and went -1000 no self control. I also did not bring enough money one time to play this at a 10 dollar table. and I tried that night also to play a progression with this and went -200. I have also spent money 10 here 10 there and right now I have $2,620.00 at home and 790. dollars in the bank. If I would have stayed with the system and not lost 700 dollars playing a pass line only odds system betting every shooter I would be looking real good. It seems like I lost a few hundrad playing some other system but I can't remember what it was so I will not count it. but playing progressions and odds has hurt me. all of this has been in the last 120 days or so feb 4th will mark my 6 month mark of playing at this table and so I started my records over so this is all just in the last part of this years play


that -1000 I droped playing a progression a few of times I placed 200 to 300 on the table and when you only have 1 K you can't be doing that but I did. so like most I have been my biggest problem I am up as you can see but not like I could be if I woudl stop playing other systems and stop with progressions with what I am doing. and kept the 800 I spent towards a tv.

[EhtelGaeb]

Appreciate the "warts and all" stories and updates.

[Evo]

363.73 now in comps food and gas along with 270.00 in free play. I took a friend with me to play with red chips and I placed my bets with green at the end of the day. I walked away even but here is the news. I earned 4.00 dollars in comps today and the 5 dollar better earned 3 dollars in comps. Points toward keeping my VIP card I earned 270 or so and they earned 192. So as you can see form a risk reward stand point I am not better off playing with larger units.
They get 5 dollars a week free play while I have been moved back to 15 a week but yet I am risking 5 times the money

[registered]

Hi
1. What does it mean by run of 1, run of 2 or run of 3?
2. And for the Kill Shot method, we only bet after this sequence B,B,B,P we bet B or P,P,P,B we bet P
3. At which point/step we should stop betting

I have a read at the Kill Shot.pdf and I dont really understands it....