Baccarat is Not Random: The Proof

[vbangle]

Spoken like a real newbie

It's "n00b" not "newbie" you n00b.

[Archer]

There is nothing random about baccarat, for someone to actually think that. knows very little of the game. It just appears as that. In an average shoe one on average can be guaranteed out of a shoe of 81-82 hands one can be certain of 15-20 hands. That is when one capitalizes.

One thing you might consider is explaining how you have come to the conclusion that card flow or patterns in Baccarat are not random. I mean other then saying that you look at the clouds and see patterns in them, therefore the clouds are defintitely patterned. Posting winnings is fine but certainly has no real bearing on this subject.

Perhaps you could start by discussing the certainty of "15-20 hands" and say how you ascerain a regular positive prediction?

Archer

[ayuinca]

Despite whether the results are random or not, first of all, the card orders are random in the shoe box. So far there is no one can figure out the relationship between the card shoe and the result shoe. For, example, given a specific result shoe like BBPPPB...BPPB there are countless of card combinations (card shoe) can result in that result shoe. Even if it is true that the result shoe is not random, the problem is how good do you predict the next hand? The cards that are already dealt do determine what cards left in the shoe but the probabilities for P/B is almost the same for next hand.

So let me repeat, whether or not the B/P (result shoe) is random, you don't have advantge of predicting the next hand more than 50% in a long term. Then so fine if you believe the results are not random but let me know how your PREDICTION works.

[jeanlee411]

G'day,

You are right about it not being random,
I have a "system/strategy"
It hasn't failed, I'm not trying to sell it!
For those who doubt me, grab a deck of cards or two

Glenn

Have any one here ever try the sytem cal "Mystery Jones' Power Baccarat Winning System." yet , if yes ,could you tell me and every one here how good is this sytem work? is it good just for the short term or also good for the long run too, and how is it work? thanks in advance and good luck every one in the hunt for the best sytem in Baccarat so we all the players in the world can beat the crap out of the casino (the bigest ennemy for all of us the players).....

[Bwaysam228]

G'day,

You are right about it not being random,
I have a "system/strategy"
It hasn't failed, I'm not trying to sell it!
For those who doubt me, grab a deck of cards or two


Glenn

interested in your system/ strategy. Living in Vegas.

[Bwaysam228]

Interested in your system strategy. elgarlv@cox.net

[Bwaysam228]

interested in your system/ strategy. Living in Vegas.

[stntgr52]

interested in your system/ strategy. Living in Vegas.

i am interested in your system pls. reply to my eamil. thanks richard

[bacplayer2010]

I expected no less then what you stated, lol...your of the bandwagon that complicates a simple game. If one observes baccarat long enough you too can do it with rather certainty. I suggest you learn more about theory names kaos theory. Basically it states events or outcomes may appear random at first but in fact have an element of regularity which can be described and understood mathematically. In essence outcomes or events or series of things seem unrelated and random at first but eventually a pattern
emerges an in end all the pieces fit together and makes sense. As it is with baccarat.

I ask archer what do you make in a month playing Baccarat? I find what I make in a month justifies my beliefs.

One thing you might consider is explaining how you have come to the conclusion that card flow or patterns in Baccarat are not random. I mean other then saying that you look at the clouds and see patterns in them, therefore the clouds are defintitely patterned. Posting winnings is fine but certainly has no real bearing on this subject.

Perhaps you could start by discussing the certainty of "15-20 hands" and say how you ascerain a regular positive prediction?

Archer

[Archer]

I expected no less then what you stated, lol...your of the bandwagon that complicates a simple game.

Yes, you can expect that I am more concerned with proofs rather than anecdotes. However, you are mistaken when you assume that I think the game is complicated - in fact, I think just the opposite. So much for speculation, huh?

If one observes baccarat long enough you too can do it with rather certainty. I suggest you learn more about theory names chaos theory. Basically it states events or outcomes may appear random at first but in fact have an element of regularity which can be described and understood mathematically.

I believe you mean "chaos?" Please describe this mathematically as it relates to Baccarat. I am sure we all would like to be enlightened.

In essence outcomes or events or series of things seem unrelated and random at first but eventually a pattern emerges an in end all the pieces fit together and makes sense. As it is with baccarat.

OK. We are all ears! Sounds like you should be able to give us some solid examples! I am always willing to learn something new!

I ask archer what do you make in a month playing Baccarat? I find what I make in a month justifies my beliefs.

Really, I never heard of profits per month being used to justify a mathematical concept! That's new one to me. Generally, profits are described in units or dollars per hour or $ (units) per decision played.

But to answer your question I make $5.00 a month. I play one hand a month and have won for 12 months in a row. Proof positive that employing chaos theory to Baccarat is 100% effective.

But please - don't let my acerbic tone intimidate you. I am really interested in understanding how chaos theory can help the game. I am sure many are as well.

Archer

[Archer]

Despite whether the results are random or not, first of all, the card orders are random in the shoe box. So far there is no one can figure out the relationship between the card shoe and the result shoe. For, example, given a specific result shoe like BBPPPB...BPPB there are countless of card combinations (card shoe) can result in that result shoe. Even if it is true that the result shoe is not random, the problem is how good do you predict the next hand? The cards that are already dealt do determine what cards left in the shoe but the probabilities for P/B is almost the same for next hand.

So let me repeat, whether or not the B/P (result shoe) is random, you don't have advantge of predicting the next hand more than 50% in a long term. Then so fine if you believe the results are not random but let me know how your PREDICTION works.

I just wanted to re-post this. Ayuinca is too smart and too articulate. How can it be said any better? Maybe Chaos Theory can turn the above mathematical truth around .. . . . .?????????

[bacplayer2010]

HaHAHA, you do not intimidate me in the least, in fact the opposite, you amuse me to be honest. My only interest in Baccarat is profit or units you may call it earned. Depending on my buy-in and length of play, in run of a day I make if I averaged it out for 8 hours on average I make over $400 an hour. Then again I do not sit and watch shoes all day and wait and wait and wait, I like to enjoy my life lol my buy-in is like $10-15000 a day. I make about 25% of my buy-in on average. When i reach my goal i quit. for the day. Not sounding smug but over time you too can watch and observe and stike when the right time comes, it isnt hard.

But please - don't let my acerbic tone intimidate you. I am really interested in understanding how chaos theory can help the game. I am sure many are as well.

Archer

[Archer]

HaHAHA, you do not intimidate me in the least, in fact the opposite, you amuse me to be honest. My only interest in Baccarat is profit or units you may call it earned. Depending on my buy-in and length of play, in run of a day I make if I averaged it out for 8 hours on average I make over $400 an hour. Then again I do not sit and watch shoes all day and wait and wait and wait, I like to enjoy my life lol my buy-in is like $10-15000 a day. I make about 25% of my buy-in on average. When i reach my goal i quit. for the day. Not sounding smug but over time you too can watch and observe and stike when the right time comes, it isnt hard.

Good, glad to hear it. Well, it wouldn't sound so smug if you were to add more than how happy you are with yourself. After all you did say:

I suggest you learn more about theory names kaos theory. Basically it states events or outcomes may appear random at first but in fact have an element of regularity which can be described and understood mathematically. In essence outcomes or events or series of things seem unrelated and random at first but eventually a pattern emerges an in end all the pieces fit together and makes sense. As it is with baccarat.

Are you going to explain this or just talk about how wonderful your life is? I mean that is okay but it is not really what this forum is all about. But I don't think anyone would mind if you also shared how you enjoy your life after playing Baccarat. I'll go first to make you feel a little more comfortable.

My favorite past time is sailing. I enjoy taking my 31' Trimaran around New England in the summer. I am thinking about sailing down to the BVI again next year in October but maybe I will just take it down to the Chesapeake. Incidentally, I see you are from Canada. I purchased my boat in Canada! Took it down here from Lake Ontario -ever been there? OK, your turn!

Archer

[garnabby]

I am really interested in understanding how chaos theory can help the game. I am sure many are as well.

A small overview of the topic, at The flip side of chaos @ Roulette Forum .cc - Roulette System players' forum. .

[bacplayer2010]

I will answer you but i cant right now dont have time...I will explain what I do in time. Most of what I do is explained already throughout my comments in this forum. Its basic stuff, plus i monitor the play through a series of charts created throughout the shoe i do and basic placement of bets n money management. Then stopping at the right time.

Good, glad to hear it. Well, it wouldn't sound so smug if you were to add more than how happy you are with yourself. After all you did say: Are you going to explain this or just talk about how wonderful your life is? I mean that is okay but it is not really what this forum is all about. But I don't think anyone would mind if you also shared how you enjoy your life after playing Baccarat. I'll go first to make you feel a little more comfortable.

My favorite past time is sailing. I enjoy taking my 31' Trimaran around New England in the summer. I am thinking about sailing down to the BVI again next year in October but maybe I will just take it down to the Chesapeake. Incidentally, I see you are from Canada. I purchased my boat in Canada! Took it down here from Lake Ontario -ever been there? OK, your turn!

Archer

[Archer]

I will answer you but i cant right now dont have time...I will explain what I do in time. Most of what I do is explained already throughout my comments in this forum. Its basic stuff, plus i monitor the play through a series of charts created throughout the shoe i do and basic placement of bets n money management. Then stopping at the right time.

Okay, I look forward to your explanation of:

Basically it states events or outcomes may appear random at first but in fact have an element of regularity which can be described and understood mathematically. In essence outcomes or events or series of things seem unrelated and random at first but eventually a pattern emerges an in end all the pieces fit together and makes sense. As it is with baccarat.

More to the point I am curious as to how chaos theory "can be described and understood mathematically" as you have stated. This is truly ingterestiing and may be a huge breakthrough that everyone on tis site would be interested in.

Archer

[Profbac]

I can make this simple.
Sit at your kichen table with a deck of playing cards.
Remove the number four cards from the deck.

Now play baccarat and record the results.
You are now at the beginning of knowledge.

[Archer]

I can make this simple.
Sit at your kichen table with a deck of playing cards.
Remove the number four cards from the deck.

Now play baccarat and record the results.
You are now at the beginning of knowledge.

Don't take this personal but the above sounds similar to bacplayer2010 comment regarding Baccarat and Chaos Theory.

Evidently you have done this for a statistically significant number of hands. Why not just give us the results and tell us your theory?

From the above we can only assume that removing the 4 and the 4 alone from the shoe provides us with predictable results. Am I wrong in this assumption?
******************
You see, Profbac, what I am attempting to get to in this thread is this. If we can predict results more often than not we should be able to win more hands than lose. Or are all these bet placement methods producing no more than 49.2% (OTBL) hands won which is the result of betting P and B evenly. This is why The Wizard says bet on Bank only because it wins more hands.

I am not saying folks don't win. I am trying to get to why they win. No cryptic enigma secret from me. Money management and betting is how we can win. Nothing to do with all these for sale methods really. It is a 50-50 game. One method is as good as the next.

People like Ellis and now Maverick with his new $1,000.00 web site are just blowing smoke up your butt. [Sidebar: Apparently Maverick, according to his own words on his website, has been "forced' to go into the Baccarat business. Reason: he allegedly got caught ripping old folks off and needs another income source - now he is going to rip us off.]

Archer

[Profbac]

Archer

I was only addressing the thread about randomness. The theory is simple. Since cards are removed and hand played without replacement of those cards, you can get biased or non random shoes.

As to the reference to Chaos theory whatever, I don't know anything about that.

Oh, since the player draws first on a total of 5 or less, the 4 card is more beneficial to the player than the bank. Not a system here, just an example of how the game can become biased.

[Profbac]

Archer

Years ago I traded futures and options, and chaos theory was a hot topic. As I am told by people in that business, chaos thoey is a blind alley.

I do remember studying trend following . I can tell you that the matematical formulas for measuring trending and nontrending are flawed.
There is room for serious work there. If someone wants to beat this game they have to be willing to study some non traditional or alternative
approaches. No one is just handing a simple minded money maker over for
a few hundred, or thousand bucks.

For the recreational player, I agree with you. For the serious student,
you need to be more creative.

[Archer]

Archer

I was only addressing the thread about randomness. The theory is simple. Since cards are removed and hand played without replacement of those cards, you can get biased or non random shoes.

As to the reference to Chaos theory whatever, I don't know anything about that.

Oh, since the player draws first on a total of 5 or less, the 4 card is more beneficial to the player than the bank. Not a system here, just an example of how the game can become biased.

I ahve often thought that the last part of a shoe is different than the first due to certain cards being depeleted. Selective memory maybe. Knowing what cards are depleed but not knowing the order of their appearance makes even that possibility impractical in my view.

But regardless random or not - predictin is the key. When there are so many combinations that produce the same outcome prediction becomes impossible. If prediction were possible one need only to flat bet.

A

[PoFoMoFo]

so it's not 50-50??

[fauzy]

I think this post by soylentgreen is ok. It is not abusive. If people want to pay for a method that is okay by me. I don't think we should assume he is a scammer. if we assume that then mustn't we also assume the game cannot be beaten?

I looked at the results. Only a 70% shoe win rate for the 40 shoes posted. The units won reveal a pretty deep progression. By that I mean he has to make some pretty big bets whether or not he uses a continuous progression. I consider making even occasional big bets a progression.

Archer

advertisment is not at here,,free no need adv,free is charity
here is disccussing/skill/technics/expirience how to take money

[bacplayer2010]

so it's not 50-50??

I agree with that ..towards end of a shoe i do not think so, but i could be wrong, problem is as archer points out, figuring out which cards have been removed.

[BaccaratPredictor]

baccaratpredictor dot com It's real! pure! perfect! you can beat casino with this program!

[Thegoal]

so it's not 50-50??

The "50/50" element is an illusion the casino's create by establishing two main betting areas. Banker and player.

The game is not 50/50.

Not even over infinity. Too many card values. Too many stand rules and draw rules. It's not 50/50. And it's not true random. Flipping a coin at the present time is closer to true random than baccarat. The outcomes are preset in the shoe once the cards are shuffled and placed in the shoe. What drives the outcomes are the stand rules and the amount of 8s, 7s, 6s, 4s, 2s, etc. Even presetting 10 "preflipped" coins, is still not as close to true random as actually flipping a coin each time. Not everyone will understand this. There are plenty of ways to get an edge in baccarat, and win. But none of them are simple. And they are not passive (meaning, they must change with every shoe or they will be killed). I can't stress how important it is to remain passive if you want to beat this game. I and a team of players have been beating this game for a long time now. Your method of play cannot be aggressive other wise you will never win in the long run. You will only be able to be temporarily successful with a "hit and run" or "stop loss and profit limit" style of play. Too many times will you leave a shoe early with profit, or a loss, only to see that if you stayed in the shoe you would have lost a lot more, or won a lot more. All it takes is for the negative reverse to happen more often than not. Where your losses occur early in the shoe, more often than they occur later in the shoe, where you would have "gotten out" due to a stop loss, or profit limit. It WILL happen, if you plan to use an "aggressive" system/method, that does a similar thing each and every shoe. That's very silly. This game changes, every single time the cards are shuffled. I kid you not with that statement.

[tands411]

I don't think it is completely random either. because of the fixed number of cards.
I have a weird question I guess...I have studied Baccarat in the past and I had a flat bet system I tested on the zuma book. Well that was a few years ago, and I'm thinking about it again. I remember my system, but I was wondering if anyone was willing to test it for me. I don't have the time right now to go through the book again but I know it won, I just want to know the exacts-I plan to actually sell the system so I can get a bankroll. Please email me if you are interested. completely flat bet no stop loss or anything like that.

I know this should be a thread, but I'm new here and can't figure it out.

[Thegoal]

I don't think it is completely random either. because of the fixed number of cards.
I have a weird question I guess...I have studied Baccarat in the past and I had a flat bet system I tested on the zuma book. Well that was a few years ago, and I'm thinking about it again. I remember my system, but I was wondering if anyone was willing to test it for me. I don't have the time right now to go through the book again but I know it won, I just want to know the exacts-I plan to actually sell the system so I can get a bankroll. Please email me if you are interested. completely flat bet no stop loss or anything like that.

I know this should be a thread, but I'm new here and can't figure it out.

Don't sell your system. Team up with someone who has a bankroll and make money that way. Sold systems seem to be "worthless" in the eyes of gamblers.

Pm me, I'm intrigued. I just hope you know, that any system made against P and B decisions, or, "totals" will not win in the long run. And remember, baccarat is chaotic. It changes with the times and seasons, as with anything in nature. So, what beat zumma, is not guaranteed to beat "today's" shoes. Not many will understand this....but, once you learn the hard way, you will.

[pitty1]

If the game is not random..Egalites would be a sure moneymaker.

[stinsonsmart]

Baccarat is a simple game with no decisions and available options with the player. Anyone who is desirous of playing can play the game; there is no degree of required skill involved with the game. The players involved in Baccarat usually participate in a roped-off area. The players can sit in an open seat at the Baccarat table.