Thread: New type of flat betting system

Update that 2 in a row system still has not let me down, but it is a progession system witch I hate, but while testing that I came up with this FLAT system let me know what you think,,,,,

I was on wizard of odds useing his 1000 8 deck shoe history and the totals are at the bottom of each shoe and Player dominates the shoe just as much as Bank witch you have to pay comission on, I know Bank wins in the long run but thats 1000's of shoes I think in 1 shoe it can go eather way. Most of the time they are within a couple wins of each other. That being said check this out...

All you do from the start of the shoe is Flat bet on PLAYER until you have three BBB in a row then you stop betting until a P again and at the end of the shoe hopefully you will eliminate enough Banks from the shoe to tilt the shoe in favor of the PLAYER. On a bank run you could shave off 5 or 10 Banks witch would result in a nice profit at the end of the shoe. and you dont have to worry paying comm. Also if you are on a Player shoe to begin with, you should make a nice profit.Or maybe it pay to bet Banker side.. So it is something to think about.
CIAO

Interesting idea but watch out for the 1,3,1 patterns.

AD

Bella, sounds interesting but in the long run, I think that by following this approach you have to bet the whole shoe, and thus increasing your risk.

i still like your 2 in a row... i have been combining it with pitboss i'll let you know how it works..

thanks for sharing

Originally Posted by BELLA

Update that 2 in a row system still has not let me down, but it is a progession system witch I hate, but while testing that I came up with this FLAT system let me know what you think,,,,,

I was on wizard of odds useing his 1000 8 deck shoe history and the totals are at the bottom of each shoe and Player dominates the shoe just as much as Bank witch you have to pay comission on, I know Bank wins in the long run but thats 1000's of shoes I think in 1 shoe it can go eather way. Most of the time they are within a couple wins of each other. That being said check this out...

All you do from the start of the shoe is Flat bet on PLAYER until you have three BBB in a row then you stop betting until a P again and at the end of the shoe hopefully you will eliminate enough Banks from the shoe to tilt the shoe in favor of the PLAYER. On a bank run you could shave off 5 or 10 Banks witch would result in a nice profit at the end of the shoe. and you dont have to worry paying comm. Also if you are on a Player shoe to begin with, you should make a nice profit.Or maybe it pay to bet Banker side.. So it is something to think about.
CIAO

You're playing my Banker bet method I use on EZ Bac.

Originally Posted by BELLA

Update that 2 in a row system still has not let me down, but it is a progession system witch I hate, but while testing that I came up with this FLAT system let me know what you think,,,,,

I was on wizard of odds useing his 1000 8 deck shoe history and the totals are at the bottom of each shoe and Player dominates the shoe just as much as Bank witch you have to pay comission on, I know Bank wins in the long run but thats 1000's of shoes I think in 1 shoe it can go eather way. Most of the time they are within a couple wins of each other. That being said check this out...

All you do from the start of the shoe is Flat bet on PLAYER until you have three BBB in a row then you stop betting until a P again and at the end of the shoe hopefully you will eliminate enough Banks from the shoe to tilt the shoe in favor of the PLAYER. On a bank run you could shave off 5 or 10 Banks witch would result in a nice profit at the end of the shoe. and you dont have to worry paying comm. Also if you are on a Player shoe to begin with, you should make a nice profit.Or maybe it pay to bet Banker side.. So it is something to think about.
CIAO

you meet many set of ppp you bet b,
you meet many sets of bbb you bet p

Sevenshooter, sorry didnt know, but I would like to read it, what is EZBAC another forum site? Dont want to step on anyone shoes just trying to find a winner...

Fauzy, I have to test more but you would play one side not both.

Grasshopper, You can play the entire shoe but if you are up enough money at some point in the shoe stop and take your winnings, tomorrow is another day.

Originally Posted by BELLA

Sevenshooter, sorry didnt know, but I would like to read it, what is EZBAC another forum site? Dont want to step on anyone shoes just trying to find a winner...

Fauzy, I have to test more but you would play one side not both.

Grasshopper, You can play the entire shoe but if you are up enough money at some point in the shoe stop and take your winnings, tomorrow is another day.

Bella: No worries, no trademarks or copyrights necessary. Just win.

Banker Bet Strategy:

Flat-bet Banker every hand. When PPP emerges, halt betting until the appearance of another Banker.

If we lose -6 units, the shoe is over.

We win several units on most shoes since Banker usually outperforms Player.
Limiting betting against Player streaks to threes helps curtail losses.

On other shoes, we will come across many Banker streaks and win +10 units or more. If you fall back to just +1 unit, exit the shoe and take the one-unit win.

Occasionally, we lose -6 units when our nemesis pattern, PPPBPPP surfaces.

Ideal for black chip play and above.

To be played on EZ Baccarat (no commission).

EZ Baccarat:

Very popular in Vancouver, Canada. May soon replace regular commission tables. Casino advantage on Banker bets decreases from 1.06% to 1.02%: lowest in the house. http://ezbaccarat.com/

7shooter, Oh ya ezbac you play with no comm, I know about that we dont have that where I play. So have you been playing this system with any success and you say stop after 6 stop lose do you thing if you play out the shoe you would come back?

Originally Posted by BELLA

Update that 2 in a row system still has not let me down, but it is a progession system witch I hate, but while testing that I came up with this FLAT system let me know what you think,,,,,

I was on wizard of odds useing his 1000 8 deck shoe history and the totals are at the bottom of each shoe and Player dominates the shoe just as much as Bank witch you have to pay comission on, I know Bank wins in the long run but thats 1000's of shoes I think in 1 shoe it can go eather way. Most of the time they are within a couple wins of each other. That being said check this out...

All you do from the start of the shoe is Flat bet on PLAYER until you have three BBB in a row then you stop betting until a P again and at the end of the shoe hopefully you will eliminate enough Banks from the shoe to tilt the shoe in favor of the PLAYER. On a bank run you could shave off 5 or 10 Banks witch would result in a nice profit at the end of the shoe. and you dont have to worry paying comm. Also if you are on a Player shoe to begin with, you should make a nice profit.Or maybe it pay to bet Banker side.. So it is something to think about.
CIAO

While eliminating some Bankers from the shoe you also lose a Player every time you stop betting. You miss out on the first 'P' after a Banker streak. So you need 8 Bankers in a row to break even on that series.

Example: You lose 3 bets (-3) on the first three Bankers of the streak. Stop betting so if there was a 8 Banker streak you save from losing on the 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th Banker (+4). Then you miss out on the first Player (-1). That's a wash statistically but in real money it's -3 Units. Hopefully another Banker run doesn't follow to cost you another -3 Units.

This means you need a 9 Banker run to have an advantage. You're not going to see many of those.

Originally Posted by briang57

While eliminating some Bankers from the shoe you also lose a Player every time you stop betting. You miss out on the first 'P' after a Banker streak. So you need 8 Bankers in a row to break even on that series.

Example: You lose 3 bets (-3) on the first three Bankers of the streak. Stop betting so if there was a 8 Banker streak you save from losing on the 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th Banker (+4). Then you miss out on the first Player (-1). That's a wash statistically but in real money it's -3 Units. Hopefully another Banker run doesn't follow to cost you another -3 Units.

This means you need a 9 Banker run to have an advantage. You're not going to see many of those.

Briang57 is right. Each time we wait for the reappearance of our trigger, we are losing a potential betting opportunity. Overall, not a bad system though, but I would restrict my bets to Banker only due to better drawing rules. I used to use this method flat-betting $100 chips with a win target of $300 per session. I've made money with this system and I think that is owed much to disciplined MM.

These days, I use a different strategy when flat-betting that's actually more profitable.

Eirescott's system is worth taking a look at, as well.

7,

great info. would you care to share with us how is it that you are playing right now?

i guess if you are no longer using your banker only system is because you are using something that wins more...

could you give us some hints?

thanks

Originally Posted by sevenshooter

Bella: No worries, no trademarks or copyrights necessary. Just win.

Banker Bet Strategy:

Flat-bet Banker every hand. When PPP emerges, halt betting until the appearance of another Banker.

If we lose -6 units, the shoe is over.

We win several units on most shoes since Banker usually outperforms Player.
Limiting betting against Player streaks to threes helps curtail losses.

On other shoes, we will come across many Banker streaks and win +10 units or more. If you fall back to just +1 unit, exit the shoe and take the one-unit win.

Occasionally, we lose -6 units when our nemesis pattern, PPPBPPP surfaces.

Ideal for black chip play and above.

To be played on EZ Baccarat (no commission).

EZ Baccarat:

Very popular in Vancouver, Canada. May soon replace regular commission tables. Casino advantage on Banker bets decreases from 1.06% to 1.02%: lowest in the house. http://ezbaccarat.com/

Here is a thought. Lose 6 units in one shoe, stop. Play 2nd shoe with unit size high than that lost in the previous shoe. Recover and return back to earlier unit size.

Originally Posted by sevenshooter

Briang57 is right. Each time we wait for the reappearance of our trigger, we are losing a potential betting opportunity. Overall, not a bad system though, but I would restrict my bets to Banker only due to better drawing rules. I used to use this method flat-betting $100 chips with a win target of $300 per session. I've made money with this system and I think that is owed much to disciplined MM.

These days, I use a different strategy when flat-betting that's actually more profitable.

Eirescott's system is worth taking a look at, as well.

Thanks Sevenshooter. I would like to hear about your current flat-betting strategy that is more profitable if you don't mind.

Brian

Hello,

This is my first post here. I tried on a 6-deck shoe with betting on player until BBB, first shoe I tried had 27 players, 23 bankers, and 10 ties. With player betting I reached a max of 6 units. If I had played bankers until PPP I had reached a max of 3 units. So does it matter if you play Player until BBB or Banker until PPP ? I think with both ways you can reach 3 units, and then Player until BBB is better. I show you the results below of the first shoe I tested, I can test some more shoes if you are interested. I played this on Black Orchid Casinos, with live dealers in Costa Rica.

PP
BBB
PTT
B
P
B
PPTP
BB
PPPTP
BB
PPP
B
P
BBBTBBBBB
PPPPT
BBT
PPP
BTBT
PPTPP
B
PT

Originally Posted by briang57

Thanks Sevenshooter. I would like to hear about your current flat-betting strategy that is more profitable if you don't mind.

Brian

Flat bet a chip denomination that's large enough to make a win of just one to several units worthwhile. I currently use $100 chips.

Wait for the first two games to be played out and then bet the chop or streak to repeat. We are not betting on B/P results but rather on chops or streaks. This way you win on all single events, push on threes and profit on streaks of four and beyond. When twos occur, we take a loss of just -2 units.

Number of Streaks Per Shoe

Ones: 18
Twos: 9
Threes: 4.5
Fours: 2
Fives+: 2

If we played out the entire shoe (something I do not recommend) we would lose -18 units on the twos, win +18 for the ones, +2 for the fours, and >=+4 for the fives or more.

I've thought about combining this Bac system with 1-2 No-Limit Poker, using the Bac method as a contingency plan to easily recover from all-in losses. Playing good, aggressive cards backed by this $100 flat betting Bac strategy, I think it would be unlikely that you'd have a losing session. Especially if your win goal was just $100 per day. Drop $100 at the poker table, make back two units (or more) on Baccarat and done for the day.

Originally Posted by sevenshooter

Flat bet a chip denomination that's large enough to make a win of just one to several units worthwhile. I currently use $100 chips.

Wait for the first two games to be played out and then bet the chop or streak to repeat. We are not betting on B/P results but rather on chops or streaks. This way you win on all single events, push on threes and profit on streaks of four and beyond. When twos occur, we take a loss of just -2 units.

Number of Streaks Per Shoe

Ones: 18
Twos: 9
Threes: 4.5
Fours: 2
Fives+: 2

If we played out the entire shoe (something I do not recommend) we would lose -18 units on the twos, win +18 for the ones, +2 for the fours, and >=+4 for the fives or more.

I've thought about combining this Bac system with 1-2 No-Limit Poker, using the Bac method as a contingency plan to easily recover from all-in losses. Playing good, aggressive cards backed by this $100 flat betting Bac strategy, I think it would be unlikely that you'd have a losing session. Especially if your win goal was just $100 per day. Drop $100 at the poker table, make back two units (or more) on Baccarat and done for the day.

This is amazing, sevenshooter. How's it been working out for you thus far?

hello thank you but can you give us example thank you

Originally Posted by sevenshooter

Bella: No worries, no trademarks or copyrights necessary. Just win.

Banker Bet Strategy:

Flat-bet Banker every hand. When PPP emerges, halt betting until the appearance of another Banker.

If we lose -6 units, the shoe is over.

We win several units on most shoes since Banker usually outperforms Player.
Limiting betting against Player streaks to threes helps curtail losses.

On other shoes, we will come across many Banker streaks and win +10 units or more. If you fall back to just +1 unit, exit the shoe and take the one-unit win.

Occasionally, we lose -6 units when our nemesis pattern, PPPBPPP surfaces.

Ideal for black chip play and above.

To be played on EZ Baccarat (no commission).

EZ Baccarat:

Very popular in Vancouver, Canada. May soon replace regular commission tables. Casino advantage on Banker bets decreases from 1.06% to 1.02%: lowest in the house. http://ezbaccarat.com/

Banker outperforms player very marginally. There is a .45 probability that P will win; .46 that B will win; .09 probability that a T will occur.

In 100 hands, that is 45 P's, 46 B's and 9 T's. In 10 hands, this means, 4.5 P's, 4.6 B's and .9 T's.

So in the long run and short run, it is very marginal. That is why some casions can afford not to take commission. Other casinos take it since they make mucho dinero on this. They trick players into betting B which also as you point out, you start burning your chances with betting after B (trigger bet). The one card advantage you "had" is now gone by betting after the trigger bet.

With my bet system, I pick either B or P to focus on. Since my casino takes commission, I prefer P and, thus, my trigger bet is BB. Once a BB appear, I begin with a bet on P.

I play 3 full shoes with this flat bet and make profit of +20 units (minimum). Maximum is +28 units. My average is +24 units

The Fun Better

Originally Posted by sevenshooter

Flat bet a chip denomination that's large enough to make a win of just one to several units worthwhile. I currently use $100 chips.

Wait for the first two games to be played out and then bet the chop or streak to repeat. We are not betting on B/P results but rather on chops or streaks. This way you win on all single events, push on threes and profit on streaks of four and beyond. When twos occur, we take a loss of just -2 units.

Number of Streaks Per Shoe

Ones: 18
Twos: 9
Threes: 4.5
Fours: 2
Fives+: 2

If we played out the entire shoe (something I do not recommend) we would lose -18 units on the twos, win +18 for the ones, +2 for the fours, and >=+4 for the fives or more.

I've thought about combining this Bac system with 1-2 No-Limit Poker, using the Bac method as a contingency plan to easily recover from all-in losses. Playing good, aggressive cards backed by this $100 flat betting Bac strategy, I think it would be unlikely that you'd have a losing session. Especially if your win goal was just $100 per day. Drop $100 at the poker table, make back two units (or more) on Baccarat and done for the day.

Hi 7,

Does that means if PP is the first 2 hands, you bet P?

And if B pops up, you will bet on P (chop)? and if B comes out again (now is BB), you lose 1 unit so you bet B to continue, which is why push on three and -2 units on 2s?

What will your stop loss be? I have seen PPBBPPBB for start...

thaks
DG

Originally Posted by Funbetter

With my bet system, I pick either B or P to focus on. Since my casino takes commission, I prefer P and, thus, my trigger bet is BB. Once a BB appear, I begin with a bet on P.

I play 3 full shoes with this flat bet and make profit of +20 units (minimum). Maximum is +28 units. My average is +24 units

The Fun Better

Hi Fun,

Would you mind to explain your way of playing flat bet? Do I understand you correctly, you make an average of 8 units/shoe with flat bet? Please, let me/us know how.

Thanks

Here goes:

Full details as requested by Irish.

I inserted a print screen:




Have a look for yourself. It's beautiful.

Fun is back

Hi Fun,

I would love to know how you idea works, but still cannot understand it. Would you mind to explain it in more details? Step by step, if it is not too big to ask. I don't even know how and when you start betting. What do you do if you lose your bet? Do you just restart, or virtual bet, etc? When do you use your Mini Progression on paper, and how does it work, etc?

Thanks
Robert

FunB,

that is great! unfortunately the instructions that you copied did not appeared on the screen, take a look at your previous message.

thanks for sharing 8 units a shoe thats great, i would be happy with a constant 4 per shoe!

please enlighten us a bit more..........

Originally Posted by dg0412

Hi 7,

Does that means if PP is the first 2 hands, you bet P?

And if B pops up, you will bet on P (chop)? and if B comes out again (now is BB), you lose 1 unit so you bet B to continue, which is why push on three and -2 units on 2s?

What will your stop loss be? I have seen PPBBPPBB for start...

thaks
DG

Yes, you've got it. I use a stop loss of -6 units. At that, I exit the shoe and double up my unit size for the next one. Once I recover my losses, I return to the basic unit. Occasionally, I'll wait until I see a couple of two-streaks appear and then commence betting knowing I've just avoided a -4 situation.

Originally Posted by irishrob

Hi Fun,

Would you mind to explain your way of playing flat bet? Do I understand you correctly, you make an average of 8 units/shoe with flat bet? Please, let me/us know how.

Thanks

BB bet P Win +20 in 3 shoes so How can meet BB 7 Sets x 3shoes

no more pp , ppp, bbb

Originally Posted by sevenshooter

Flat bet a chip denomination that's large enough to make a win of just one to several units worthwhile. I currently use $100 chips.

Wait for the first two games to be played out and then bet the chop or streak to repeat. We are not betting on B/P results but rather on chops or streaks. This way you win on all single events, push on threes and profit on streaks of four and beyond. When twos occur, we take a loss of just -2 units.

Number of Streaks Per Shoe

Ones: 18
Twos: 9
Threes: 4.5
Fours: 2
Fives+: 2

If we played out the entire shoe (something I do not recommend) we would lose -18 units on the twos, win +18 for the ones, +2 for the fours, and >=+4 for the fives or more.

Sevenshooter,

I got thoroughly intrigued by the reasoning here, so I ran this by a friend who is a computer genius and has both Zumma's in datasets and I'm afraid I have some bad news.

Zumma600

50.01% hands won
-506.65 units
-1.20% ROI
48.83% shoes won


Zumma1000

50.20% hands won
-638.95 units
-0.90% ROI
46.70% shoes won

I wanted to ask him what the odds are that this will improve over a greater sample, but he beat me to the punch - he basically said that over millions of decisions these kinds of strategies do not perform any better than they do against the Zumma's.

Not only that but it turns out all you're really doing is betting Avant Dernier, also known as TB4L.

Though it makes sense that streaks would break down along the 50/50 rule, it doesn't pan out like that at the tables. Maybe a better mathematician could explain why this is.

Stop loss I imagine will do little in the way of the roll - for every six sessions that put you ahead you will experience one that dips right from the start and never comes back.

I hope this helps a bit.

Anderson, Thanks for that info.
Can you ask your friend using his computer to see that the best pattern to win agianst zumma 1000 or 600 . can the computer pick up on the best pattern or the most profitable pattern or most consistent pattern

Hello, fellas.

I would fully expect those negative results, Anderson.

Why? Because it appears that Sevenshooter's posted "possible outcomes" is just a tad off:

1's makes one unit......agreed.
2's loses two units......agreed.
4's makes one unit......agreed.
5's (or more) makes 2 (or more) units......agreed.

BUUUUT, the 3's, ah, therein lies the "rub", as they say.

This method does not "break even" on the 3's, as erroneously stated.

Instead, it loses one unit to all 3's, and that is this method's downfall.

While I am certain that Sevenshooter meant well, and I applaud both his effort and his sharing, the 3's are the bane of the method because it loses one unit when the 1 goes to 2, then wins a unit when it hits the 3, but loses a unit when the run stops right there at 3, and I think that is the unit lost that was overlooked.

But that is the very purpose of Forums such as these, to share our experiences and methodologies and then interact amongst ourselves to come to the best conclusions. Collectively.

May i ask a question on this forum. Does anyone know of an internet site where i can test for free but do not have to bet every time to proceede. thanks if anyone could help me out. richard

Originally Posted by stntgr52

May i ask a question on this forum. Does anyone know of an internet site where i can test for free but do not have to bet every time to proceede. thanks if anyone could help me out. richard

If you don't want to make a wager but want to carry the shoe forward just bet $1.