Thread: Out of the box - something different to look at

Somebody sent this to me, so I share it with you; it completly randomises the results and you you play a random game against random outcomes.

Record decisions in blocks on 6. 3 results horizontally then 3 underneath.

Like this

1-2-3 7-8-9 13-14-15
4-5-6 10-11-12 16-17-18 and so on

example = BPBBBP would look like this;

BPB
BBP

Record relationalship between top of column and bottom of column, is it "same" or "opposite" as the result above;

BPB
BBP
soo

Next record 3 more results (lets say we get PPB)

We now have;

BPB PPB
BBP BBP
soo ooo

Now we bet SOO WON'T REPEAT, so we bet BPB, stop if you win the first bet and start over for next block. (We won the B bet (bold) so don't place any further bets for this grid).

Next three results are PPB

BPB PPB PPB
BBP BBP BPP (now we bet SSS, stop after any WIN, (P bold is win)
soo ooo oso

Think you get the picture. You could use groups of 8 instead of 6, you could bet the "same" instead of "opposite", whatever floats your boat.

You could stop playing any grid after 2 losses to prevent getting burnt by odd-ball results. The SO sequence should not continually repeat, I have not seen it repeat (so far) beyond 3 grids.

You are randomising the sequences and playing a random game, which is exactly what the game of Baccarat is all about.

Apply any progression that fits your comfort zone.

Thanks for the posting...i like grid plays..I kinda do the same on doz. bets at the wheel.

Last nite casino run..live b&M 8 deck autoshuffle..walk in shoe in play and tried Egalites method.

BPB
PBB
BBP
PBB..win 2nd bet.
BBB
PBB..win 3rd bet
BPP
BBB..win 1st bet
PPB
BPB..win 1st bet
BPB
PPP..win 3rd bet
PPP
PPP..win 1st bet
PPP
BPP..win 1st bet
BPP..last hand called did not play..I was pretty impressed of results.
2nd shoe did not play this way but here are results.
PT
B
P
BB
P
BBB
P
BBB
P
BBBBTTBB
P
BB
P
BBB
PPP
B
P
BB
P
B
PPT
BBB
P
BB
P
B
PPPPP
B
P
B
PP
B
P
BB
P
B
P
BBBB
P
B
PP
BBB
PP
B..Choppy shoe did not do me streak playin well..
3rd shoe went back to egalites way...
BPB
PBP
BPP
PPP...win on 2nd bet
PBP
BBP..loss 3 bets
BPB
BPP...win 1st bet
BBP
PPP..win 1st bet
BBB
PPP..win 3rd bet
PBB
BPB..win 3rd bet
BPP
PBP...lost 3 bets...got too drunk and quit..
I donno what caused the loss..Maybe the pit boss used the "ol ellis bias on command" against me.Too bad the pitboss overlooked a high rollers 200.00 bet on dragon bonus for a 9-0 win.That was Freakin awesome..shock and awe,,

Originally Posted by pitty1

Last nite casino run..live b&M 8 deck autoshuffle..walk in shoe in play and tried Egalites method.

BPB
PBB
BBP
PBB..win 2nd bet.
BBB
PBB..win 3rd bet
BPP
BBB..win 1st bet
PPB
BPB..win 1st bet
BPB
PPP..win 3rd bet
PPP
PPP..win 1st bet
PPP
BPP..win 1st bet
BPP..last hand called did not play..I was pretty impressed of results.

Obvious question, why did you change?

Using two rows of results (columns of 2's), seperated into blocks of 3's. If you lose the first two bets, do not make the 3rd, it limits any losing jag which will not last beyond 3 blocks.

For those with good memories, there was an SO method posted on the site which was prone to losing to 3 chops then a 3 streak, or 3 streak 3 chops. This method is not prone to this fail-point, rather the fail point is more random, which better suits the game. Also you have the option if the last block of three are all the same, as in SSS or OOO, then you bet switch to betting the SAME (S) rather than betting the opposite, in all other cases bet the "inverse/reverse" of the previous SO sequence..

Have been looking at columns of 3 and 4 and playing the same approach, (SO sideways) there seems little advantage, what will be, will be.

Also you have the option if the last block of three are all the same, as in SSS or OOO, then you bet switch to betting the SAME (S) rather than betting the opposite

so lets say it's BBBPPPBBBXXX,
then u got to make a choice to bet either same or opposite?
because XXX could be PPP or BBB.

just wondering, what money system are u using with this method, progression or flat-betting?

Originally Posted by extremeb
so lets say it's BBBPPPBBBXXX,
then u got to make a choice to bet either same or opposite?
because XXX could be PPP or BBB.

just wondering, what money system are u using with this method, progression or flat-betting?

The reason I say if the last grid are all the same as in SSS or OOO is to prevent getting burnt by any long series of chops or two's, otherwise always bet the prior SO sequence won't repeat, by betting the opposite.

This sample is to small "BBBPPPBBBXXX"

I am however looking at ways to make it more robust., this will take a bit of time testing. The Labochere would be fine, but hey MM is a personal thing.

Egalite,

do let me know if this method works out for u in long term, im really interested, because...

i have actually tried something like this before, it didnt work.
i have 8 numbers in my pocket and i labeled them...
1=BBB
2=BBP
3=BPB
4=BPP
5=PPP
6=PPB
7=PBP
8=PBB

each time before i bet, i reach into my pocket and pick a number.
so if i picked 2 then i bet BBP for the next three; if i picked 5 then i bet PPP for the next three. nothing complicated.

my method is totally random.
your method is so-callled "using its own randomness against itself", i have read this concept some where in this forum before, not the same method but same concept - i.e. u derive what u are going to bet from its own existing results.

like i said, mine didnt work.
and i was puzzled, but in the end i found an explanation using math.

well for starters, i was using progression betting - i bet 1unit, if lose then bet 2units, if lose again then 4units, so total of 7units i will lose (if i lose all).

so there are 8possibilities as u can see, so in long-run averagely, every 8sets i bet, there will be 1set that i will lose. for example, i win 7sets and then i lose 1set, continue and again i will win 7sets and lose 1set.

this is how i see it from a long-run average view using math & probability.

so now think about it, each set that i win, i will only win 1unit.
so i win 7sets, i win 7units; then when i lose 1set, i lose 7units.
which means...it's break even (again, from a long-run average view using math & probability)

and lastly, dont forget the bitchh, there is the commission part, or some places they have banker pays half if banker wins on 6points.

hence, i lose.

so thats y im interested how u do in long-run.
if yours works...hey money is money right no one will complaint

extremeb - got to be honest here, I have not tired it live, not sure if I ever will.

Testing using 2 row (10 shoes) and blocks of 4 not three, average results approx 50%, tried the same approach again using columns of 4, again with blocks of 4, results very poor, however using columns of 3 the average over the same data was 55%, not sure if I will test further, a bit time consuming and I'm losing interest in it.

When you played the method you describe above, hope you put the number just chosen, back into your pocket before pulling out the next! (also you need to lose the usage of that 3 step martingale)

I'm considering another option at the moment, which I call the "Trend Catcher", if any trend continues, you win, otherwise you lose 1 single bet, a supplement bet, for something else I do.

When I have a bit more time, I'll post the details on the forum.

Originally Posted by Egalite

When you played the method you describe above, hope you put the number just chosen, back into your pocket before pulling out the next! (also you need to lose the usage of that 3 step martingale)

yes, i put back the number into my pocket before pulling out the next, i.e. each time i pick a number from my pocket, there will always be 8numbers in there

yes i know martingale is generally not a good way, most of the threads here said so. i will usually try to cap it at 2 or 3 steps martingale.

do u guys try to double your bankroll (or higher if u want) before u go home? i reckon we have to, so that if i win one day and lose on another day, i will be even; otherwise (if i didnt double my bankroll) i will still lose.

is it a good rule u think?

I try to "make" my buy-in amount, 100% profit.

Originally Posted by Egalite

I try to "make" my buy-in amount, 100% profit.

sorry, i dont quite understand. do u mean if u bring $1000 bankroll, then u will try to make another $1000 of profit?

No, not what I take to a casino, what I initially buy in for

Originally Posted by Egalite

No, not what I take to a casino, what I initially buy in for

i see.
but you are potentially risking "what u take to casino", shouldnt u at least cover that amount each time before u go home?

never mind, it's just something that im still confused and trying to figure out

Hi egalite...u mention a trend catcher selection..heres a out of the box ideal i been following..kinda go along the trend system seller ideals are using (i.e.elsi,izak and the mav)..Three notable patterns occurs..a chop,streak.and TT's. bet afte the pattern of the last three desisions produce..On the TT's at four..Heres a shoe from last nite.
P
B
P..look back u wanna go with a chop trend..next bet B
TP..loss but follow last results one more bet..now a P
P..win..conservatively i would let that row of p's run out until a new row begins...scorecard horizontal.
p
p
p..now bet trend to continue...a P..for a agressive bet
p... win...
B..now see what kind of trend may develop again.
PP..nothin
BB.. looks like a TT trend may be commin.. Bet P
PTT..win.. conservatively wait for that row to finish out.
BT..see what forms..
PP..nothin
BTBT..looks like another TT..bet P
PP...wins conservatively let that row finish out .
BT..start tracking
PPT..nothin
BBTT..another TT bet P
PT...win wait
B start tracking
PPP..here u got three P's in a row. bet trend continues..a P
B ..bet one time for last to repeat only
BB..win..
P..start tracking for a trend..
BB..nothin
P..nothin
BB..nothin
PP...TT trend bet on B
B..win
PP..nothin
BB.. another TT trend?..bet P
B..loss ..one bet to follow last decision..Now a B
TBTB..a win..
Recap..three in a row.. bet to follow and if miss ..one more bet to follow last decision.
Three chop(P,B,P) bet to continue..if miss one bet to follow last decision.
PPBB..bet TT trend...miss..one bet to follow last decision.

Tnite...ez bac.. eight deck auto shuffle.
P
p
P..streak trend bet P
P...win
P
PT
B..new track
PT
BT...chop trend bet P
P..win
P
B..track new trend
P
P
P..bet on streak trend..P
B..loss..one bet to follow last bet..B
B..win
B
P..start new track
B
P..chop trend bet B
B..win
P
P
B
P..chop trend..bet b
P..loss..one bet to follow..P
P...win
P
P
T
P..aggressive..bet streak trend or leave alone
B..new track
B
P
B..chop trend..bet p
B..loss next bet to follow
B..win
P new track
B
B
B..streak trend..bet B
P..loss next bet to follow
P..win
BT.. new track
P
B..chop trend bet P
B..loss..next bet to follow
BT..win
P new track
B
P..chop trend..bet B
P..loss next bet to follow..P
B..loss..stop
P new track
B
B
B..streak trend..bet b
B..win
P
B
P..chop trend..bet B
B..win
P new track
B
B
B..streak trend bet B
P..loss next bet to follow..P
P..win
Next shoe..I didnt play.. got hungry left a little while and came back..wished i played this shoe..middle of shoe is missing..but u get the ideal how it was going.
B
P
BB
P
B
P
B
PTPTPPPP
BBB
P
B
PPPTPPT
BBBBBBBBBB
PP
BB
PPP
BB
PPPPT
BBBBBBTBBBB

Originally Posted by pitty1

Hi egalite...u mention a trend catcher selection..heres a out of the box ideal i been following..kinda go along the trend system seller ideals are using (i.e.elsi,izak and the mav)..Three notable patterns occurs..a chop,streak.and TT's. bet afte the pattern of the last three desisions produce..On the TT's at four.

Hi Pitty, You can simplify that further from three to two, which is more reflective on what the Punter actually does. That is "you are either betting, against the last decision or the same as the last decision". FTL or OLD, streaks and Two's are the bracketed the same, i.e a repeat (FTL).

Hi egalite.. looked back at the last shoes posted..Yeah i see what u mean..and u really don't need to let the rows run out to retrack.. with a 1,2 step bet placement still seems to hold up..Those shoes i posted it held up pretty good to produce wins...What is the nemesis here? Thanks..

Originally Posted by pitty1

Hi egalite.. looked back at the last shoes posted..Yeah i see what u mean..and u really don't need to let the rows run out to retrack.. with a 1,2 step bet placement still seems to hold up..Those shoes i posted it held up pretty good to produce wins...What is the nemesis here? Thanks..

Hi Pitty, yes LWLWLW is perfect for any 1-2 progression or even a Labochere -prog'. The nemeis is 1L (the trend didn't continue) which can happen repeatedly, sometimes 2L FTL cos' didn't continue at the end of a streak (could be run of TT's) straight after a single win or series of wins, otherwise it is 1L again. Due to prior win or wins hopefully 2L won't harm you that much.

I haven't spent much time on it, been busy with other things, it is on the shelf at the mo.

Looks like stuff I passed-on to a chosen few. I used D and S as Different and Same.

There are also other options like will the next set of three be DSS or SDD or SDS etc.

This makes it more detailed.

Can you predict a result and then predict - on top of that - whether it will be SSS or DDD [all correct, all incorrect] or even predict that you will get your first guess right, the second wrong and the third right - SDS.

I just put-up a version of this and someone pointed-out this thread! Irony? Coincidence? I personally felt I had nothing to gain by keeping this to myself - so I threw-it-up last night - thread titled: "Eirescott's BP method."

Good Luck All - work on this together combining MM and you may win over time.

Scott - Eirescott

guys, calm down pls.
i was the one who told eirescott about this thread.

i just wanted him to know we have thought about something similar before.

and since we have thought about it before, we should have better understanding, so maybe we can work together to improve or something.

stay together yea

This one seems interesting i'll check some online live dealer shoe and can give some feedback

Damn i would like to continue to run this one thru live plays and tests..but got a production deadline due in nov.and totally owned until then...I did pass this on to a fellow player who will give me a feel on future live results until i return.thanks again and best of luck.

Originally Posted by Egalite

What Irony, this is not a "who can piss up the wall the highest contest" This is nothing like your DS method (which is usually called betting "same or opposite" as opposed to same / different), it is NOT comparing any set of results to any last set of results, it is not based on tracking results via columns.

Originally Posted by Egalite

Ain't played it yet, been too busy with other things, probably will next week end. Also I've read your BP system, my guess is you don't have a lot of real table action under your belt. Producing fancy systems at home is real easy, playing them for hard cash is another matter.

Interesting. I see where I was wrong now. You use "opposite" instead of "different." My mistake.



If someone wants to bring out the old SD stuff I had at the private forum - go ahead. I don't think it is as good as the BP system - and I'm not concerned about anyone using it. If it is different than this one - that's also fine - nothing wrong with more free systems that may help the other guy.

I didn't mention this as a harsh attack. I mentioned it because I found it funny that you said "someone passed-it on to you" I was curious that someone found it "good enough" to use and put on a non-private forum.

EIRESCOTT

Egalite:

I'm considering another option at the moment, which I call the "Trend Catcher", if any trend continues, you win, otherwise you lose 1 single bet, a supplement bet, for something else I do.

When I have a bit more time, I'll post the details on the forum.[/QUOTE]

Have you given anymore thought to the "Trend Catcher" and what would the 1 bet you mention be?

I've played several shoes using this concept and it seems to work well. I've just flat bet for now, no progression.

Thanks
Banker94

Originally Posted by eirescott

Interesting. I see where I was wrong now. You use "opposite" instead of "different." My mistake.

If someone wants to bring out the old SD stuff I had at the private forum - go ahead. I don't think it is as good as the BP system - and I'm not concerned about anyone using it. If it is different than this one - that's also fine - nothing wrong with more free systems that may help the other guy.
I didn't mention this as a harsh attack. I mentioned it because I found it funny that you said "someone passed-it on to you" I was curious that someone found it "good enough" to use and put on a non-private forum.
EIRESCOTT

Scotty, I've been exploring SAME/OPPOSITE options for the last 7 years, none of them work. I gained the original SO concept from “sam”. This thread was started because I of "behind the scene" discussion I had some time back with members of other forums Swami.

I initially liked your BP method, and you are to be congratulated for posting so much detail and devoting so much time out to answer questions, providing samples, but it doesn't work. I've tested it waiting for 3 different, 4 different, you can run into disastrous shoes. If you can run into bad shoes, then that rules out making “risk the farm” sized bets. However your tweak waiting for 6 different is excellent, I enjoy tracking shoes and perhaps not placing a single bet for any entire shoe, seeing all those glorious missed winning and losing bets.

However I will give you this, your BP approach is very much out of the box, a novel mathematical approach, it is not the only one out there. Many "odds based" solutions exist. But they all have one thing in common. Nobody can predict jack, and it ends up being a game of chance or 50/50 bet. Alas some dress it up with convoluted solutions, such as betting a series, but it still comes back to being a series of individual 50/50 bets and how much am I laying out after any losing bet.

As for the first thread in this post, I wouldn't / have not played this live, because it simply is not good enough. I tried applying an element “as per BP method” count as opposed to S or O, and it still is "not good enough", besides not many players want to bet 1 hand in 6 or 8 decisions, a few casinos also don't like it.

I'm considering another option at the moment, which I call the "Trend Catcher", if any trend continues, you win, otherwise you lose 1 single bet, a supplement bet, for something else I do.

When I have a bit more time, I'll post the details on the forum.

I gave this a whirl over the weekend and was happy with it, alas it's early days, won 54 units over 2 sessions, 7 shoes.

The nemesis patterns are;

3 chops then any streak = lose 1 bet.
2 streaks of any length, followed by single = lose 1 bet.
Prior winning FTL bets followed by 2 singles = lose 2 bets.

I'm too busy at this moment in time to participate further. One thing about playing any trend, it can be frustrating when it continually doesn't continue, it feels fantastic when it does (plus winning back all those lost single bets) and when nothing is obvious I have other trigger based options to play (including mathematically based ones). Yet it still comes back to MM.

Originally Posted by Egalite

Scotty, I've been exploring SAME/OPPOSITE options for the last 7 years, none of them work. I gained the original SO concept from “sam”. This thread was started because I of "behind the scene" discussion I had some time back with members of other forums Swami.

I initially liked your BP method, and you are to be congratulated for posting so much detail and devoting so much time out to answer questions, providing samples, but it doesn't work. I've tested it waiting for 3 different, 4 different, you can run into disastrous shoes. If you can run into bad shoes, then that rules out making “risk the farm” sized bets. However your tweak waiting for 6 different is excellent, I enjoy tracking shoes and perhaps not placing a single bet for any entire shoe, seeing all those glorious missed winning and losing bets.

However I will give you this, your BP approach is very much out of the box, a novel mathematical approach, it is not the only one out there. Many "odds based" solutions exist. But they all have one thing in common. Nobody can predict jack, and it ends up being a game of chance or 50/50 bet. Alas some dress it up with convoluted solutions, such as betting a series, but it still comes back to being a series of individual 50/50 bets and how much am I laying out after any losing bet.

As for the first thread in this post, I wouldn't / have not played this live, because it simply is not good enough. I tried applying an element “as per BP method” count as opposed to S or O, and it still is "not good enough", besides not many players want to bet 1 hand in 6 or 8 decisions, a few casinos also don't like it.


I gave this a whirl over the weekend and was happy with it, alas it's early days, won 54 units over 2 sessions, 7 shoes.

The nemesis patterns are;

3 chops then any streak = lose 1 bet.
2 streaks of any length, followed by single = lose 1 bet.
Prior winning FTL bets followed by 2 singles = lose 2 bets.

I'm too busy at this moment in time to participate further. One thing about playing any trend, it can be frustrating when it continually doesn't continue, it feels fantastic when it does (plus winning back all those lost single bets) and when nothing is obvious I have other trigger based options to play (including mathematically based ones). Yet it still comes back to MM.

That's fair. I do believe that there could easily be many similar approaches to betting and that ours simply "meshed." Not a problem.

The BP has been reviewed with different styles of betting.

You may want to look at Therapy101's work and my latest addition - to the BP thread - of about 40 consecutive shoes where I bet from the 2nd set onwards - flat[ish].

I believe up one, down one is far too risky for even the 6th,7th,8th betting!

The SD or SO or whatever is interesting - and I more-or-less dropped-it - but I still believe there is something there; I just can't find it ---- yet?

EIRESCOTT

This system has been working really well for me. ive found a different way of playing it. i used to play entire shoes with this method, ive been lucky and i dont get a match sometimes. i could get up to 125 units before a match occurs. this is not bombproof, and i encountered up to 4 grids matching when i was tracking a shoe (good thing i wasnt betting). That was some rude awakening right there, and of course its the realization that in an 8 deck shoe, ANYTHING can happen.

with that in mind, i started going for only 2 units per shoe now. after i get two units, i consider that shoe beat and move on to the next table for another two units. and so on and so forth. i know some people will say its the same banana, but i dont know, i consider it not waiting around for a match coming out of the shoe specially when i got 2 units from it already. a new table/shoe for me is like another day, its like a reset. another way of looking at it would be to consider, no even expect, than in an 8 deck shoe there will be a match, so if you do get 2 units already, stop and dont wait for it to happen in that shoe anymore. this way you are banking that you wont get a match in your first two grids at a particular shoe. thoughts anyone? is this better? get 10 units from 5 different shoes? or 10 units from one shoe?

where i bet is slightly different (not sure if it makes any difference in terms of not getting a match more). after tracking 6 hands and putting em on a grid , i immediatley bet after the 7th hand betting opposite the result of the first column, (tracking that 8th bet on the bottom of the 4th column), if i lose i wait for the 9th hand to come out and bet the opposite result of 2nd column accordingly. i track the bets on top of each other. (the first hand will be on top of the 2nd hand to form the first column)