Thread: Hello Forum... My Thoughts on Baccarat (baccman)

hello everyone, i just thought i share my expereince with everyone in here. as it may help others get a better feel for what the game is really all about. I don't consider myself a professional, and honestly i dont beleive there is sucha thing when it comes to baccarat. this game is truly random. But dont get me wrong, there are some strong consistencies in this game. Such as shoes that tend to streaks once or twice ever 20-40 hands. Shoes that tend to never win more then 2 or 3 in a row...shows that tend to chopped then follow by streaks and etc..but dont let this fool you that there is a reason behind those consistencies. it's pure coincidences or just so happened to be that way. but it is proof that this game is random. Why do I say that? take a look at 10 different shoes. and you'll first see that they are different in many aspects..one shoe may be player winning about half, and banker winning the other half. Another shoe may show you that banker wins about 3/4 of the hands while player only a little over 1/4,
patterns may be strong in one shoe, and in another, patterns are very inconsistent. etc...the statistics are proof that this game is not systematical or mechanical. Only luck and positive attitude will help you win.

As for systems. They might work to some point, but every week, i see people with systems losing in the long run. I tried systems, many many of them in my last 8 years or so playing. I might have a good day, but the next, i'll give it all back. Systems don't work. Systems can utilize your bet selections more wisely, but if you follow a system, i can almost assure you, you will lose in the long run if not in the short run.

The thing with systems, is that many bacc players are so anxious to find one that works consistently. They eventually become "delusional", and then they start getting fustrated and angry when the hands are not going their way. They go back home, and try to figure out what went wrong and etc.. ( dont' take it personal, as i am speaking from experience myself) However I only speak for myself and the many people i known.

So to those who are constantly improving or searching for that holy grail, dont let me discourage you. I would be more then happy to be proven wrong if some day someone does find that holy grail. But for now, i am convince that will be impossible.

So what makes you a winner?? Only thing that will make you a sure winner in this game is luck, and lots of it. and that is it my friends. nothing else, nothing more. Its a 50-50 game. But add in money management, good health, and good attitude, and your chances of winning will be more effective.

this game is truly a game of instincts. I mean when you play, lets say you are using a system..According tot he system's rules, you are suppose to bet this hand on banker...Bust supposedly, you have this really strong instinct that player is going to win this hand. You ignore you instincts, and went with the system and sure enough, cards are drawn, and player wins. You start getting a little fustrated. Even with a system that has proven to be a consistent winner, has also proven to have some drawbacks. Many people may know that a system works, but they don't know WHY and or HOW it works. This is a given that this game is not systematical.

so what is the best approach to this game? Instincts, and good ones. discipline and good health...you have to feel good, mentally and physically before you decide to go and play. You have a nice hair cut, you have on one of your favortie shirts, your comfortable. Not too many stress on your mind, your instincts tells you, you will win...maybe small, maybe big. you have nothing much to do at home, you might call a friend up and if they sound glad you call them b/c they're pretty much bored, then you go to the casino.

avoid going to the casino, when you are really tire. a lot of stress and problems on your mind. someone gave you a hard time. or just one of those days your instincts tells you, no matter what you will not win today. you dont go that day. dont be greedy and go anyway.

this game is all about energy. you got to have the energy. Dont go straight to the casino after a long day's of work..Dont go and intend to win 5-6 hundred in 2 hours. When you go to the casino, you got to have the energy to stand and walk around or sit for 4-5 hours. its not a race.

another thing is, find out when do you tend to have the bestluck..some people tend to do better in the daytime than the night time. some people tend to do better on weekdays and not weekends. etc. for me, i find myself most lucky in the early morning hours. 1 p/m- 4 p/m.

when you enter the casino, dont jump right into the water. Walk around, get accustome to the atmosphere. Look at the shoes, and see if they are streaking or chopping. or if they are a little bit of everything. Wait until you get comfortable, then buy in and choose a table where you feel you will win. Some dealers i known, i tend to have really bad lucj with...some dealers on the other hand i tend to do quite well.

when betting, you got to start off small. flat betting until you win a couple units. then when your instinct really feels stong, thats when you want to take a leap of faith and go for a bigger win...sometimes when you are down big time. You either need to quit or you're going have to start taking bigger bets. And i'll tell you the best bets to bet when you are down. You only aim for either a streak or a chopped.

and for someone who doesn't really want to play every hand. These are the only 2 patterns you want to catch. A long chopped PBPBPB>>> or a PPPPPP/BBBBBBB....

bankroll is important. Without a sufficient amount of units, your chances of winning and recovering is minimal. However if you only have say 2-6 units. Then I suggest, look around the tables, let your instincts determine to you if the shoes will continue streaking and chopping. And only aim and try to catch one of the two patterns. Your best chance right there. There will be times when those two patterns seem to be very weak, and thats when you dont want to play. Wait another day or another time of the day.

well, I dont claim to be a professional or even a good bacc player. But i like to think maybe i can change one or two person ways of betting and make them win consistently b/c I have been winning pretty consistently with this kind of mind set for the last 5-6 years.

I recently made a trip to Thailand and hawaii, where I was ablt to donate some of my winnings to the poor in my native village in thialand.

Just rememer my friends, winning money is not as valuable as money earned. I'm only playing baccarat, b/c i need the money. I have no college degree or skills of any trade, so i dont have a decent job. And trust me, if I do, i wouldnt even gamble. It's a lot of hard work, and all those second hand smoke and mentally thinking takes a lot of toll on you mentally, physically, and spiritually..it's not fun.

Please play responsibly, and only look at it as fun. not a business or job.

Money earned is more valiable than money win.

thank you, and hopefully my thoughts on this game will turn out to be more benefical to you then negative to you. It takes me a long time to decide whethter to post this or not, b/c i dont encourage gambling, but i figure, if someone has come this far to seach for a online forum, they are probably already in too deep or at least willing to learn something or two to win.

thanks again, good luck to all. this game will not make you wealthy, it will only supplement your income or make your life turn into a living hell. But what I say, I hope it will at least help one or two person to be a better bettor.

my thoughts might be beneficial, it might not, but i hope you enjoy my thoughts and get a different perspective on the game.

Please do get help if you have a gambling problem.

interesting idea...and i agree with you.....

i rarely play baccarat nowaday.. i mean i don't play any game.. i rarely play.. when I play.. i just follow the trend and double up...maybe I might hit 15 streak.. and might win big.. only way to be ahead in gambling is you bet small and win big.... only lottery winner and poker winners are the one can make living with winning.. even you bring $10,000 it is only so much you can win.. even you double it... so what? you get nice dinner and room and maybe new car? and that's it.. rest you have to work.. or maybe go back casino and give it all away.....

oh i have a quesiton.. when you see the streak you mentioend BBBBBB or chops.. you mean wait 6 times streak then follow the streak? and how would you bet?

thanks

hello joker, very good question. the way I aim and try to catch a streak or chopped is very simple. I look for a shoe that a chopped or streak has already occured. from my experience once a chopped or streak had occured another chopp or streak is likely to occur again at some point. You have to look what comes after the chopped or streak. usually from my observation, after a chopped or streak, the shoes becoming choppy with 1,2, and 3's for about the next 10 hands..After a few of these short runs, i start aiming for a chopped or streak with a follow last decision method. If it jumps, i bet it to jump for a chopped, if a chopped does build up, i go for it til the chopped is done. If it sticks i bet for it to stick, if it does stick and a streak does start building up i bet on the streak to continue until it stopped. If bet for a chopped/streak to occur and it continues with 1,2,3,s then I start betting a progession method. I bet for it to not go more then 2 in a row. if I hit a 3 or more, i stop, until i see 2 1's, or 2 2's to occur in a row, or a 1 1 and a 1 2 to occur one after another then i continue with the 1-2 progession. If i hit a 3 again then i decide whether or not to follow it to be a streak. or I might just ignore it and continue for it to not go pass 2 in a row..

there is another method i use when i see a lot of 1,2, and 3's...such as a shoe that has BBPPPBPBBPPPBP...I basically bet a 1-2 progession for it to jump. Once I hit the jump,i switch to a stick, once i hit the stick, i switch back to a jump. All using a 1-2 progession at the most. If I lose a pregession, i stop, and decide on a new method to win...Usually, when i have a hard time feeling the shoe, i look elsewhere. b/c my instincts are telling me, this shoe isn't too friendly.

yes, when you see a chopped or streaak, say maybe Player has won 6 times in a row, or it had jump 6 times in a row,my suggestion is to just follow it. Who knows right, it can continue chopping or streaking for the next 10 hands. I've seen one shoe where it streaked 27 times, with 2-3 ties interrupting it. they had to refill the chips twice on that shoe. One or two guys won over 15k each follow by many winning a few gran. I'll never forget that shoe, I won close to 10k just following that streak.

it's very complex to explain it so that it can be fully understood. it's like explaining to someone how to make a basketball go into the hoop. You just have to aim and have a feel for it to make it go in the hoop. I tried my best. It bothers me when people asked me what my secret is and I tell them, i just guess or go with my feelings. They dont beleive me. so I try to avoid any conversatons at the casino.

if you have anymore questions, please feel free to asked. Like I said, i dont consider myself a professional. But what i share might benefit you.

another thing, i do beleive you can practice your instincts to be better. Like everything else, instincts can be improve. But it would be nicer to have a natural talent for good instinct.

If you look at the many great baccarat players, or poker players, they all have great instincts. Many people are afraid of mentioning instincts, b/c usually it is frowned upon and laught at. But i'm not worried about that, i'm pretty upfront.

Originally Posted by baccman

hello joker, very good question. the way I aim and try to catch a streak or chopped is very simple. I look for a shoe that a chopped or streak has already occured. from my experience once a chopped or streak had occured another chopp or streak is likely to occur again at some point. You have to look what comes after the chopped or streak. usually from my observation, after a chopped or streak, the shoes becoming choppy with 1,2, and 3's for about the next 10 hands..After a few of these short runs, i start aiming for a chopped or streak with a follow last decision method. If it jumps, i bet it to jump for a chopped, if a chopped does build up, i go for it til the chopped is done. If it sticks i bet for it to stick, if it does stick and a streak does start building up i bet on the streak to continue until it stopped. If bet for a chopped/streak to occur and it continues with 1,2,3,s then I start betting a progession method. I bet for it to not go more then 2 in a row. if I hit a 3 or more, i stop, until i see 2 1's, or 2 2's to occur in a row, or a 1 1 and a 1 2 to occur one after another then i continue with the 1-2 progession. If i hit a 3 again then i decide whether or not to follow it to be a streak. or I might just ignore it and continue for it to not go pass 2 in a row..

there is another method i use when i see a lot of 1,2, and 3's...such as a shoe that has BBPPPBPBBPPPBP...I basically bet a 1-2 progession for it to jump. Once I hit the jump,i switch to a stick, once i hit the stick, i switch back to a jump. All using a 1-2 progession at the most. If I lose a pregession, i stop, and decide on a new method to win...Usually, when i have a hard time feeling the shoe, i look elsewhere. b/c my instincts are telling me, this shoe isn't too friendly.

yes, when you see a chopped or streaak, say maybe Player has won 6 times in a row, or it had jump 6 times in a row,my suggestion is to just follow it. Who knows right, it can continue chopping or streaking for the next 10 hands. I've seen one shoe where it streaked 27 times, with 2-3 ties interrupting it. they had to refill the chips twice on that shoe. One or two guys won over 15k each follow by many winning a few gran. I'll never forget that shoe, I won close to 10k just following that streak.

it's very complex to explain it so that it can be fully understood. it's like explaining to someone how to make a basketball go into the hoop. You just have to aim and have a feel for it to make it go in the hoop. I tried my best. It bothers me when people asked me what my secret is and I tell them, i just guess or go with my feelings. They dont beleive me. so I try to avoid any conversatons at the casino.

if you have anymore questions, please feel free to asked. Like I said, i dont consider myself a professional. But what i share might benefit you.

another thing, i do beleive you can practice your instincts to be better. Like everything else, instincts can be improve. But it would be nicer to have a natural talent for good instinct.

If you look at the many great baccarat players, or poker players, they all have great instincts. Many people are afraid of mentioning instincts, b/c usually it is frowned upon and laught at. But i'm not worried about that, i'm pretty upfront.

Thanks baccman,you are telling the fact in baccarat.
I agree that luck is no.1 in gambling,instinct also does play the role.For the mathematician those things do not exist.
I played Bryan's trigger in the live baccarat in casino bet365.The time the trigger was conditioned,I lost more than win.That trigger condition were very rare,must wait very long time.
I think Bryan is borned to be lucky,I am not.Anyway thanks to Bryan,he is so kind to give his winning method freely.

hey bakonlin... well, i am with you.... exception of system i used when I was playing baccarat.. it is similar to baccman use but different.... I am very unlucky guy when comes to gambling.. but this method I won pretty well... it is just percentage... i mean... say.. you have a million dollars.. then go vegas.. you put place player and if you win go home.. if you lose you double up until you win... okay you have a millino dollars okay? and say no table limit.. you must win right? i mean even you are unlucky you will win right? i mean shoe can not be all bank right? it is impossible... well, i won't do any online.. even it is live.. it can be cheated... anyhow.. i can give some idea... my method was like this.. wait till 8 or more streak.. can be 7 but never 6... i think 8 was still the best.. then see the rest of shoe... you will see more 1, 2, 3, streak... it is more like trend... you can look the shoe and you will see it... then i used 4 progressive and my advice is if you win first unit then go home.. my experience is that usually it is easy to win first hand... then if you play too long then you will lose... well.. i forgot exactly how i played but this was idea and won a lot... but as you said you have to wait too long and sometimes you lose patient.. but if you have so much time then this would be good... I think if I play this system again.. i would start with $100, unit.. becasue if I win one unit i still get 100 and happy for that day.. if you only win $25 then you will continue to play... I would take this casino bus and casion pays some money and i can save gas and these indian casino got so many table open and you get to see streak here and there....



for bacman hello yes.. you have great idea.. and what you are saying is not random...

well, I was playing this method when I was playing baccarat very activly...

well, what i did was.. i waited 7 or more streak then i wait about 15 hands went by then start betting with progressive.....

i did not lose 50 hands straight.... well, of cource i used 4 progressive...

but did not lose 50 times... and of cource I hit the wall, but I won more than I lost with this system.. only problems...
1) had to wait for long time....
2) if many people are playing then I couldn't place my bet since i can't sit down 3 hours withut betting...
3) not worth staying casino for 5 hours for just making small money....
well, if you start out 100, 200, 400, 800 then make $3000 a month then great, but only porblem is that you have to stay there to watch the shoe...

but this is the only system I won more money than losing.. it just takes too much time and decipline... and i felt too weird staying casino too long...

the reason why i came out this system is that actually i saw more chops or 1, 2, 3's after long streak.. it is more like trend.. it goes like BBBBBBBBBBB P BB PP BB P BP PB BP BB it is rare to see BBBBBBBPPPPPPPPPBBBBBBBBBBPPPPP you know... but yes.. i can happen....

but now as I mentioned I would definitelly will play your way... and i only will follow the streak...... I don't like progressive system.. i mean any kind... just not good way to win... and even you do 1-2 you lose 3 units and not easy to recover....

I would just wait 20 or moer streak hit me one day I want to make fortune... with $10 unit start...

I would go like this

10-10-20-30-50-80-130-210-340-550-890-and go on till table limit or whatever end....

i have a question for you... how often do you win? and you are still up?
and how much unit and bankroll do you have?

thanks

10-10-20-30-50-80-130-210-340-550-890-and go on till table limit or whatever end....


I really would be scared using a session bankroll like this.

Originally Posted by joshky

10-10-20-30-50-80-130-210-340-550-890-and go on till table limit or whatever end....


I really would be scared using a session bankroll like this.

I know Sonny would disagree, because anything progression is "voodoo"... but it's great "cover" (every now and then) for a seasoned bj-player!

Yes you will be scare if you are putting your money...

I said I won't scare if I were using Casino money and that's what i do...

I only bring $10 casion and put winning money on table.. i used to use progressive system and that got me.. so i don't use that anymore...

any progressive system is crazy.. you put $400 to get $20 back... it is stupid

Originally Posted by Joker

Yes you will be scare if you are putting your money...

I said I won't scare if I were using Casino money and that's what i do...

I only bring $10 casion and put winning money on table.. i used to use progressive system and that got me.. so i don't use that anymore...

any progressive system is crazy.. you put $400 to get $20 back... it is stupid

I agree.

This again i believe may depend on the hit ratio of ones MM and bet placement. For example, should you chose to employ a 1-2-4-8-16-32 progression winning 9 out of 10 shoes with a target win of 10 unit per shoe would give you an average of 4-5 units wins on average.

Too exceed the 32 units maybe a disaster.

I call this as a lottery method... you bet small and try to win huge..

I may hit 20 streak one of these days.. and I will get all the losing back.. imediately... if you try to win $100 here and there and you will lose again soon or later....

people remember how you lost.. usually crazy progressive system....

actually i like 4 streak.. any 4 streak.. it indicates streak is heating up.... and bacman mention his method and i am looking forward to use his way of catching streak... but I won't bring more than $10... because if you are lucky you will win even with $10.. and if you are not lucky you won't win even you bring $10,000... and i won't donate any more money to casino.....

I believe hitting 10 or more streak isn't too hard.. it can happen to anyone... i mean when I was betting 10 streak or more GOT me many times....lol.. so it can happen... it is more chance than hitting lottery.....that's for sure.....

and did you notice on lottery winner? they usually win only one ticket lol

and if you want to win more money.. you should play slots and wait for jackpod or play poker... the reason why casino won't give you hard time for winning poker is that you are taking players' money lol...... casino don't care about that.... and i heard the slot jackpot winner did not get pay.. they said it was accident.... give me a break.... but you know how many poker players out there? and how many people make 1 million? well, i won't even bother also.....

there are so many people here research so much... if they want to make some consistent money then they should sell system or teach.. i don' think that is bad thing... in Japan.. there is game call Pachinko.. and this company sell all the system and seems like they are doing well....

it is like stock broker... i mean you can not blame on losing your money on broker.. you chose to do it......it is your choice.....

Joker- I am still learning and trying to improve..My method of playin might work or might not work for you or others. I just want to share my method in hope it might turn someone or a few people into winning more b/c it has help me greatly.

When I first started playing, i was up by a few gran withing a couple months. All because of luck. I wasnt using any kind of method, i was just going with the flow or rythem. Maybe I'll win 50-150 a day and quit. one day I got greedy and lost it all back within 8 hours. I start looking for systems and making up my own. None work forever. then i start thinking back on the days when i won the most. I remember, those days were days when i felt pretty good, days were i felt confident. And days when I felt comfortable witht he atmosphere, not too many people, and people werent rude. I then started to incorporate instincts into my style of betting. and I've been winning pretty well since. Dont get me wrong, i do lose too..if not half the time, I say maybe out of every 5 trips, one trip i'llcome home with breaking even or losing 2-8 units.

I usually bring 8 units on days i dont feel like i will win big..On days i really feel lucky, like i will win no mtter what even if i'm down, i'll bring anywhere from 20-40 units.

I made myself a vow, that if i ever lose 100 units, i willquit gambling for good. There are more to life out there.

So far, in the past 5-6 years, i've been bringing anywhere from 2-5k a month. So as you can see, I am not a high roller..i am happy with that amount. I've seen people winning 20-40k a session before. But i dont envy them. you dont want to. b/c everyone is different. On a bad month, i might be down 500-1k..Which it happens..sometimes, even i lose my discipline. And sometimes you get carry away b/c you already won a lot, so you dont care if you lose. That's a mentality you want to erase from your mind for good. Never get carry away..Always have a hunger to win. Think about all the tough times in your life, and let that be your motivation factor.

I suggest you get 8 decks of card, shuffle them, and practice them first. practice your instincts, and maybe even look for youw own method or triggers when to aim for that streak or chopped...there's many ways to win, just as there are to lose.

I don't recommend progression that goes more then 2 stages. a 1-2 prgression is risky enough. You don't want to catch a streak after if has won it's 5th. usually a 5 streak is the average long. Once it hit 6 in a row, depending on how you feel, decide to go for it or not. I mean how many 6 in a rows do you see? very few right? once it hit 6 in a row, it might hit 2-3 more times. if you're lucky it might hit another 10 times or even more. but do keep in mind these occurences are rare.

again, please, dont get your hopes too high. My style of play might work for you, it might not. everyone should have their own style of playing and know the best method for them. I only share my method, b/c i think a lot of people can incorporate it into their existing method or give them a new better idea.

one thing I do confidently suggest is that for anyone not sure what the best bet is. I do firmly beleive your best bet is to catch a long streak or chopped. But you have to determine if the shoes are having these chops or streaks..because sometimes when you go to the casino, you obeserve the tables, many of the tables have the same trends..sometimes, the shoes tend to streak a lot, sometimes chopped, sometimes a little of everything, and sometimes the shoes are really hard to read and that's when you dont want to play..Sometimes these two patterns seems to be asleep..But I beleive if i asked anyoen in this board, when's the last time they saw the tables without a streak or chopped, they will probably say that they can't remember or they might say, there hasnt been a time where they didnt see any of the two patterns occur.

Once you feel it in your bones that these two pattern will occur, then go for it. If you try to bet when the hands are going a little of everything, like a lot of 1-2-3's and occasionally 4's your chances are not as good. Unless you are super lucky.

hello there.. thank you .. you got great points already

it is pure luck.. really.... and even you wait 10 hours sometime you don't hit streak.. but sometimes you wait 1 min and you hit streak....

and i am 100% agree that only way to win and win big is to hit streak...

that's the only way... all the system will fail....

as i said before i bring only $10... to casino... i like to watch any 4 streak... becuase it has potential to go higher.... and I put more money as I win.. I don't put my money there... if I lose.. i go home... i don't spend more than 10 min at casino...see when you buy lottery.. you really don't expect to win.. i do same at casino... only problem with table game is people think it is 50/50... so they think they can get money back fast.....

maybe I go monday... i will use your method... but my another rule is i have to place bet withint 10 min... my rule is i don't spend more than 10 min there... just like say i would like to place the bet when i have most energy and place and if i lose then i go home with smile ....nothing hurt me at all...........

so bacman... are you up so far? and how much do you make a month?
where do you play?

well, thank you for your advice....

Originally Posted by Joker

any progressive system is crazy.. you put $400 to get $20 back... it is stupid

No, it's $400 to win $400... but still only a different way to lose your money, w/o an edge.

[QUOTE=baccman;20517].

Just rememer my friends, winning money is not as valuable as money earned. I'm only playing baccarat, b/c i need the money. I have no college degree or skills of any trade, so i dont have a decent job. And trust me, if I do, i wouldnt even gamble.

Please play responsibly, and only look at it as fun. not a business or job.

Money earned is more valiable than money win.

I believe the expression is "Money won is sweater than money earned"

At the end of the week your boss gives you a pay check, how do you feel about that money?
You go to the casino and win the same amount of money, how do you feel now?

It is abpout expectations. Most peopl go to a casino knowing that nobody really wins. When they lose, they shrug their shoulders and leave.
If you win, well that is lucky, that is beating the odds.

Now consider a professional gambler. Whne he wins, that is expected.
He feels good, nobody likes to lose, but it was expected. It is like the paycheck. When he loses, that is bitter. He expects to win.

For a professional, gambling is work and a job.

BTW, something to think about. If you gamble when you have no job, how do you expect to replace money lost when that happens, and it will happen?

[quote=Profbac;20595]

Originally Posted by baccman

.

Just rememer my friends, winning money is not as valuable as money earned. I'm only playing baccarat, b/c i need the money. I have no college degree or skills of any trade, so i dont have a decent job. And trust me, if I do, i wouldnt even gamble.

Please play responsibly, and only look at it as fun. not a business or job.

Money earned is more valiable than money win.

I believe the expression is "Money won is sweater than money earned"

At the end of the week your boss gives you a pay check, how do you feel about that money?
You go to the casino and win the same amount of money, how do you feel now?

It is abpout expectations. Most peopl go to a casino knowing that nobody really wins. When they lose, they shrug their shoulders and leave.
If you win, well that is lucky, that is beating the odds.

Now consider a professional gambler. Whne he wins, that is expected.
He feels good, nobody likes to lose, but it was expected. It is like the paycheck. When he loses, that is bitter. He expects to win.

For a professional, gambling is work and a job.

BTW, something to think about. If you gamble when you have no job, how do you expect to replace money lost when that happens, and it will happen?

Well said Profbac! It's just a job like any other. The more you treat it like a job, the better you will do. In my opinion gambling for fun is a little sick.

Originally Posted by Ellis

In my opinion gambling for fun is a little sick.

What about conning others out of their money... when you can't win anything yourself, even here on line?

mr Ellis I kind like your idea said playing gambling for fun is kind of sick.. if you do place the money.. you better win.....
anybody really can make living playing baccarat?
I mean i do respect they do.. they must have
1) great knowledge and system...i mean flexible system
2) Great Decipline.. i mean this is the key... know how to control and
3) has great bankroll....

this is not for me that's for sure... i don't want my office to be casino....


the different between job and gambing is simple... jon you get 100% pay check if you work, but gambling even you work so hard you don't gurantee get pay check....man it is hard feeling when you have bill to pay and using casino to do it very very hard.. it is hard to imagine that......

Gambling not only can take your money but it can take your life away... to me it is kind of better stay away.. even you know how to play.. you never know what thing can happen.... if you lose control then you are dead...

losing $100,000 at casino is very easy.... your life time saving can be gone in second....

gambling for fun won't work as well... i mean i bring $10 and hoping to win $20,000.. it can happen if you double up.. and hit streak and if you are lucky.... but i would never count gambing is form of living.. if I lose my current job and I would do something else....

hey profbac.. you should not give up your hope.. learn something and teach others... that's what I do for living.... you can learn stuff and you can teach people... it is good field as well... you learn math or science.. or sports.. then teach others.... you get 100% money... and it doesn't cost so much to learn.. you can learn a lot by yourself... i mean there are so many people spent so much time on figure out system and some of them are to me genious.. i mean they come up something very very good... and they have desire to do it.. i always think if they put that effort for somethiing else they will be very successful in any fieild....

goodluck

Joker I'm in california. whichever casino that deals baccarat in CA, you name it, and i probably have been there. I use to go up to Reno, Lake tahoe, but since they start building the new Indian casinos in shorter driving distances, i've not been up there for 3 years or so. I've yet been to the other casinos many people mention in here. Tunica, foxwoods, etc. I'm not really a travel person. I try to go to vegas, once every year during my birthday or a friends' birthday. But i never bring big bankroll. maybe just 8-15 units to play.

Profbac- I respect your opinion, and perhaps to many it is a fact. But honestly, I do beleive in the term "honest living". At 19, I was arrested for domestic violence, resisting arrest, and carrying a gun without a permit. So if I could change all that and just went to college and become a nurse or doctor, I would be happy. I probably wouldn't dare to gamble..or buy a lottery ticket. even if I know i could win consistently. everytime i walk into the casino, i have to sacrifice 3 things..inhaling second hand smoke, trying to keep undercover so relatives, co-workers or other people you know won't see you b/c they will start thinking bad about you, and third, people can be so rude at the casino, pushing shoving, and what not. I can get very sensitive when someone shoves or yells "excuse me" at me.If I dont have to gamble, i probably wouldnt..maybe once or twice a month at the most, if knowing i can win everytime i go. right now, i dont have enough to retire, but once i do, hopefully i will one day, i'll definately reduce my trips if not completely eleminate it off.

but again, its just my opinion. everyone thinks differently.

hey there baccman... wow it is great. you are my neighbor then...

I am in LA, and close to Commerce casino.. i am sure you have been there and yes i have gone to indian casino.. Pala and Pachanga....

well, since it has been brought up let me tell you the story.. my first trip to casino was pala and this person introduced me this professional guy..
his name was Tony chinenese guy kind of tall.. well.. so i brought 5k and I lost all.. well, he lost all for me lol... so much for professional.. and I don't forget that day.. well, more remarkable than losing.. there were two guy winning over 20K... and after I lost my money .. i sat next to this guy... i still remember.. he was predicting which card was coming.. he said 9 is coming and it came out... I remeber he won 10 straight hands... or more.. I won money by just following him.. he was kind fo european guy kind of fat.... then next shoe came and he lost few hands then he left.. so i guess he hit the good shoe previous one.. but not all the time....

well... baccman i don't know exactly where you live.. here in LA there are so many Chinese bus goes to pala and all the indian casion and they pay you for it.. i took twice and it is nice.. i don't have to drive or spend money on gas...

so baccman you do play baccarat for living?

that is outstanding....

goodluck to you

hello joker, I just got back from the casino. I lost 8 units today. Plus some extra money for the locksmith b/c my wife lock her key in the car. That was a bad sign already. But it's okay. You have to understand you will lose sometimes.

I'm actually in Norther California. But i've been to Pala, very nice place. If you are ever up here in Northern California, I would be more than happy to have you come along with me. You can watch me play, and if you like how i am playing you can follow me. I wont gaurantee you I will win but when i do win, i think you will be pretty impress. Dont get me wrong, i wont win like 10-20 hands in a roll. Most of the time i will be up and down. But in the end, when you come out on top, that's what matter. Like I said i lost today. I acutally won at one casino this morning, then in the evening i lost about 1/3 of it to a different casino. Shoes were tough. a little of everything. streaks and chopps were very weak at that casino. I have had some bad luck before at that casino, but the beautiful drive there makes you want to go every chance you can.

No I only play 2-3 times a week. sometimes 4 times. but i usually go to different casino each time. There's 3 casino's where i am that is about an hour away. One of my friend has been barred from 2 of the casino's here already. And he plays very similar to me. So he only goes to the small casinos now but keeps under the radar very well.

Baccman

Why was your friend barred from the casino?
I know that casinos will do that, one casino in Las Vegas has barred me,
so I am always curious about other peoples experience.

hello.. baccman thank you for your kind workds.. thank you.. yes ifi I go there.. i would love to see you play...


hey baccman.. how much do you bring to casino and how much is your one unit? $100?

and do you usually wait 6 streak show up?

and if you win how much and you go home>

well, thank you very much

We've aired the subject of full time professional play on this forum before but it is an important subject that needs airing:

For most (normal) people it is a VERY UNinteresting subject. If you sit down to a bar in a non casino town and start talking BJ or Bac, you'll clean out the whole bar in no time.

But for some its a dream that just won't die. From the movies and all it seems like a glamorous way to make a living. In the real world of professional play it is not glamorous at all. It is a damn tough job and very unhealthy to boot.

After an insane amount of study, practice and research, I played Atlantic City full time for 3 and a half years. I was very successful financially making about $620,000 a year in today's dollars. But I ended up in a hospital in Albany, N.Y. fighting for my life with a burst colon from Diverticulitis caused by stress and a steady diet of casino food. The doctors gave me a 50% chance of surviving.

Only about 1 out of a 1000 casino players actually win bottom line at the end of the year after expenses. And only about 1 out of a 1000 of those guys win enough to make a decent living. Even then your days are numbered. Sooner or later you'll get barred from too many casinos or your health will stop you..

Casinos pay no attention at all to the high rollers that are up $100,000 one day and down $200,000 the next. Those guys are their bread and butter. But start winning consistently day after day and see what happens even if you are only playing blacks. I've been barred from more casinos than anyone I know or ever heard of. ALL casinos have taken me off their mailing list.

Very, very few people Will put in the time, study, research and plain work it takes to play professionally. Fewer still have the iron discipline required. Most look at it as play, not a job.

For instance, I knew what kind of cards every new card prep produced in every casino in A.C. both for Bac and BJ. I made most of my money, nearly all, playing new cards early in the morning when most players were still asleep. That took hundreds of hours of pure research without playing at all. Most players would laugh at the thought of being that meticulous about their profession but that is the kind of devotion it takes. Any thoughts about having fun dissipate very quickly. And often you spend all those hours researching a particular casino only to get barred from it. They share player information you know.

Today, at 70, I spend most of my time teaching others how I did that. But then I have to put up with the Garnabbys and the Archers and other jealous idiots who have no idea of what they are talking about.

You know, they say that A major Plant Manager is the toughest most stressful job there is. I did that for 11 years. I can tell you for a fact, playing full time is much tougher. But there is that pitiful few who have done it successfully, if you can call almost dying successful.

hello mr Ellis thank you for sharing your experience..

do you have any suggestion? like go non smoking casino or maybe prepare the food yourself... etc.. those who want to make living playing baccarat...

there are some casino won't allow you to smoke you know.....

would that help?

well, one thing very true is that... "there is no easy money in this world"

am i right?

Right, the only easy money is for rich people who, the last thing they really need is even more money.

Keep yourself VERY physically fit. Exercise EVERY day with lots of walking or running in fresh air. Only play when you are mentally fit. I used to test myself first thing every morning. If I couldn't count down a deck of cards in 13 seconds I didn't play that day. Not that I recommend card counting. I DON'T but it makes a good mental test.

Even though you often get comped, stay away from the fine restaurants. Go to the buffets but select wisely - lots of greens and fish and fruit.

Any time you have a very good day at a particular casino, stay away from it for a while - at least that particular shift. Don't make friends of casino personnel. You just THINK they are your friends.

Play mornings! It's more consistent and easier and the big brass isn't there yet.

Don't wear anything that can identify you such as a certain ring or hat.

Brag about imaginary losses. "Damn, I lost $8,000 at that table yesterday!"

Make a really stupid play now and then when you have a small bet up like hit hard 17 or split tens.

Ask stupid questions like "Do you think its good to double 12's?" Or do you think anyone ever actually beats this game?" or "Do ties often repeat?" "This is the luckiest game I ever played."

Don't struggle. NEVER play a tough game, leave.

Note which dealers you never beat and stay away from them. Play the guys you always beat and tell them: "You are the only guy I can ever beat!" Act like a loser.

Learn from EVERY experience - the good AND the bad.

DON'T show off! Try to be invisible and unmemorable. Dress like a tourist.

Oh, I forgot the most important thing: None of this act does you any good unless you know how to win in the first place. THAT takes hard work and study.

Hello mr. Ellis thank you very much for your great information..

I believe that all... i am not pro but sounds right....

I have a question.. any thoughts on online live baccarat?

to me.. any online can be cheated.. but what is your thoughts on online live game?

well, if this is good then you don't have to deal with casino crazy stuff...

or i was thinking hiring people to play for you? have you done that?


well, thank you for your info

yeah teaching is good idea..... I teach myself so it is good.. it is not easy but it is more healthy i guess

well... you know... we have to understand that you learn from Poker Champion doesn't mean you are going to be next champion.... we have to understand... i think any gambling is the same.. it is just different... i guess there are more to it than just system.... And some skill is very hard to teach or maybe impossible to teach.. those call "instinct"

well, i think i have at least 10 years before i stop current job.. so i will take my time to learn more about this game.. and one day......

but this is crazy business. no doubt... like baccman said.. you kind have to watch other people's eyes.. like friends and relative they might show up at casino and you might lose your reputation... it can happen....

well, i think this is great thread so far....... everybody here has great comments... and looking more reality.... i think many gambler lose their truck..... i mean i am sure many other think why you even spend time at gambling forum.. .yes that is true... but i guess i am in half and half.. I like gambling but i don't play much anymore.. but i still look for some kind of dream.. but my mind is pretty much in real world.. which people think "Gambling is BAD" so i can think more straight, but I can also understand gambler's mind also......

so being here is pretty fun for me....

great thank you....

Originally Posted by Ellis

Today, at 70, I spend most of my time teaching others how I did that. But then I have to put up with the Garnabbys and the Archers and other jealous idiots who have no idea of what they are talking about.

Is that why after all this wasted time, on your part, you still haven't "got over yourself"... could it all be hype? Still looking for that one big "sucker" to give you $100,000 for the same-old "I am E Clifton Davis... " spiel? (Has not, nor ever will happen. At least you dropped the "never lost in AC", above, lol.)

That makes the rest of us "jealous idiots"? I, for one, could not be happier for the BTC-clowns, because they got exactly what was deserved... less than nothing, just like the other "nuts" trying to get rich by such nonsense. (Though i USED TO feel sorry for the "suckers" who bought-in; and used to defend Ellis.)

Now it's ALL fun... even at the casinos.


P.S. What's wrong Ellis, you didn't even try to defend yourself over at www.blackjackinfo.com ... not so "smart" about the bj-nonsense either?

You are demonstrating my point very well Garnabby. Making up crap and trashing people and talking about things you know nothing about. Still not a single post about how to play or how to beat Baccarat which is what this forum is SUPPOSED to be about.

I've never been to that sight but I'm guessing its some scamming card counting site like all the other scamming card counting sites. The casinos defeated card counting 30 years ago when they introduced multiple decks and the cut off card for that very purpose. No card counter has had a winning year since then. It is a pure scam, however popular. Try it and you'll soon see for yourself. It's not hard at all. You could teach a baboon to do it.

But the mathematics of it is HIGHLY flawed. I could write pages and pages about the flaws of card counting. But duped players want it to work so bad that they overlook the flaws.

The preponderance of tens either favors the top half of the shoe or the bottom half. It's 50/50. When it favors the top half the counter loses because he doesn't bet because he has a negative count. So he loses that half of the shoes that he could have easily won by simply betting as the tens fell.

Or, let's say two decks in the counter has a +10 count. He increases his bet as he was taught. Those excess tens have exactly the same chance of being on the wrong side of the cut off card as being on the right side. He based his high bet on thin air. Now suppose the count goes to +13 so the counter lost his high bet. Now he's got an even better count and he's down so he increases his bet. The count goes to +16 and he loses again and makes an even higher bet. The count goes to 20 so he loses and the cut off card shows. The counter just bet a 3 bet progression which they teach a player should never do. But then they teach him to do it and call it something else.

So now he's down about 6 units wondering what went wrong just as counters do all the time. Such is the life of a card counter. Even their very best player Kenny Uston quit the game in disgust when he finally figured out that card counting no longer works. Yet unscrupulous scammers still teach it.

But be my guest. Go try it. Put your degree to use. Try to prove me wrong. Just don't say you weren't warned. That's your whole problem Garnabby - you have no idea who the scammers are. Some expert you are! You don't know a damned thing about it, ANY of it. You think that just because you can't win that nobody can. You think that all winners are liars. Not everyone is as stupid as you are Garnabby. Now go put in another good word for the scammers. That's what you do best.

Joker,

I am a professional, and I would like to repeat what you said because it is
very correct: " to succed you need..

1. A method that works
2. Discipline
3. Bankroll

I believe Ellis has very accurately added another component I will call

4. Lifestyle

This goes to the health issues. I will not sit at a table with smoke blowing in my face, or people elbow to elbow with people coughing all over.

I just read a book titled "Deal Me In". It profiles 20 top earning poker players and what they went through.

Frankly, it does not describe an enviable life. Almost all of these people have gone broke more than once (there is a 54 year old Vietnamese man who won $20miilion and lost it all playing baccarat and craps.) Several developed drug addictions. Peter Chan developed
health problems from all the bad foods he lived on. Most of these people
have gambling addictions. Several owe so much money to backers and moneylenders there isn't much left for them even if they do win.

Of course there is more. If you are winning, you have financial issues.
What do you show the IRS (tax authoirities) creditors, ie renting a car, apartment, getting a mortgage, health insurance, retirement etc.

What do you become like. Ellis is right. To the average person this is boring. You become boring. Your language and social skills go out the window.Listen to your own language. Are you cursing and displaying you temper freely.

God forbid you need a job. How do you explain this. No one will trust you.


On the bright side. One fellow named Chris Ferguson aka Jesus, because of his beard and hair, is inspirational. He has a phd in computer
scienes, his parents are math professors. In the 1990's he looked at poker strategy using a branch of mathematics not applied to poker before.(at least not in the published literature) He concluded that all publicly available information was wrong, and he developed his own strategies. Today he is one of the most successful players alive.

His advise to anyone is that money management and risk control are critical. Otherwise you go broke very fast and start borrowing money.

There is a lot of advice here. Go slow. Be open minded to new ideas.
Don't borrow money to play. Don't try to earn a living from this until you believe you have found a way to overcome the house edge, and you are actually doing it.