Thread: Ellis Scam Thread

So as not to botch up the other threads, Ellis wrote:

Archer, I didn't evade the question at all. I answered it accurately and truthfully as all my members on this forum know.
As I have said time and time before: SAP is an automatic follow the shoe type system like ADOT, SKOR, Maverick and others. They need no table selection, have a high win rate and are excellent systems to play when you have no table information or when a table indicates no strong bias or in casinos that have no tote boards and/or limited or nonexistent table selection. However, on avg. they make less units than good table selection systems and you can't exploit like you can with table selection systems under the right conditions.
Personally I prefer table selection systems but I only play casinos with multiple tables and tote boards. Not all of my students have that luxury.
I don't understand why you persist in making stuff up. It is extremely obvious and ruins any credibility you might have ever had.

So now ALL your methods are "automatic?" This is getting too easy, Ellis! The easiest way for you to prove you are not a con man is to document the results for any of your (ahem) automatic systems. After all these years you MUST have thousands of shoes in your database. A fairly simple task. Offer a money back guarantee and include the tests of the method and sell the method for . . .well, more than 50 bucks! Are the test results a secret? LOL.

Ever notice that honest people who really have "the goods" and want to sell are more than willing to provide proof of their claims?

So what is it that I am making up, Ellis? What is ruining MY credibility?

Symptoms of a Pathological Liar:
A pathological liar would always tend to exaggerate about things. He/she would always talk about many things in a much broader perspective.

These kinds of liars would be noticed easily because they tend to change their stories frequently. It may so happen that a pathological liar may not really be able to keep a record of stories that are fabricated as per his/her imagination and this may be noticed very easily in any normal situation.

They often go on the defensive whenever anyone cross-examines the person. This happens even if you ask an innocent question in relation to the given situation. A pathological liar would tend to feel threatened when questioned. This could explain their reaction to any questions asked.

Archer >>>----------------------->

This is a good one! Ellis wrote:

W/O mentioning names, the woman who started Pattern Recognition used to work for me years ago. I fired her for scamming. In seminars she used a reflector camera and played a shoe supplied by the audience. She covered the next play so the audience couldn't see it on screen . However she could see it right through the cover because the light is so bright. Therefore she could play with uncanny accuracy and bet with or against the pattern with pure BS explanations to the audience - A clever scam that made her look like a genius. Pattern Recognition is pure BS. Consider yourself warned.

Pray tell, Ellis, what exactly did Sherie Pelzman do under your employ? Help you sell and conduct seminars for "The System" that beats Baccarat, Craps and Roulette (Garn can you find that ad again?)? But you found her scamiing? LOL. Then she realized she didn't need you to put together some follow the trend method and went off on her own? Everbody loves a system! You've leraned that. If they like one why not give them 10? How much more would they like that? LMAO

Archer

Originally Posted by Archer

So as not to botch up the other threads...

OK, I'll bite. Just what is the point of this thread?

Is there an "end game" that will make it go away or at least finish it eventually or does it just go on and on?

I've been in wars where this much venom wasn't displayed.

If one doesn't like the guys methods, don't play them.

See how easy that was!

AD

Originally Posted by ADulay

OK, I'll bite. Just what is the point of this thread?

Bite? That's what Ellis is doing here! Getting people to "bite." I just didn't want to clutter up other threads with my Ellis rebuttals.

Is there an "end game" that will make it go away or at least finish it eventually or does it just go on and on?

I've been in wars where this much venom wasn't displayed.

If one doesn't like the guys methods, don't play them.

See how easy that was!

AD

I guess you haven't been paying much attention. I like his guess methods and I think they are worth 50 bucks for people who want to gamble and want to experiment with systems.

What I don't like is his deliberate deceptions which he passes off as truth. Need I reiterate the litany?

It is not right or honorable to tell people that he has automatic fixed bet systems which produce 83% win rate and average 6 units a shoe. It's a con to get people to part with their money. As a private member on his forum you know it and I know it! If you have seen documented proof for his claims that show his tests to "the nth degree," as he puts it, then say so. Pffffff!

I have been listening to the same old con from him for over ten years off and on. If he was doing the same thing in another industry he would be in jail by now!

Take your own advice. If you don't like the thread don't read it. See how easy that was?

Archer

Originally Posted by Archer

Take your own advice. If you don't like the thread don't read it. See how easy that was?

Archer

Fair enough. I can stay away.

I paid my money, I'm winning. What more do I need to say?

It's not the Holy Grail of Baccarat, but it sure beats the heck out of whatever I was playing last year.

AD

But does twister work or maybe anti-twister or or how many now

Originally Posted by natural9

But does twister work or maybe anti-twister or or how many now

I really don't know as I don't play those.

AD

Another classic by. . . Ellis in the thread: Re: Standard deviations

An interesting study - just remember that the cards have no memory.

This from a guy who sells trend systems!!!!!!

Archer

Originally Posted by ADulay

I really don't know as I don't play those AD

Well, AD, why keep us in the dark? Are you playing his automatic SAP or are you selectiing tables and picking the correct method to go with the table?

This thread has no point. Since Archer cannot come up with anything helpful to students of Baccarat on his own he is so jealous of anyone who can that he is reduced to these pitiful utterances of a six year old. He reminds me of all the idiots who slammed Tesla who ended up responsible for the electrically energized world we live in today. They didn't know any better either. He wastes his time pouring over forums trying to find some shred of evidence that I'm a scammer. Can't find a thing so he makes stuff up. He's a sick puppy.

On my public forum he claimed to have a winning flat bet method based on advantage bets. When he couldn't tell us what an advantage bet was in Baccarat and called everyone names my private members voted to ban him as a complete waste of everyone's time. He obviously didn't learn anything from that humiliation but never got over it. Keep slamming Archer. All you are proving is that's all you are capable of. You might impress the other children here like natural9 and josky but the brighter members see you for exactly what you are - a childish wannabe who doesn't know the first thing about Baccarat and never will.

Originally Posted by Ellis

This thread has no point.

No? I think it speaks for itself.

I see you are having trouble defending your own statements, Fast Eddie? Did I make up that last idotic quote by you, Uncle? Why don't you just simply explain how "cards have no memory" but future outcomes can be predicted by the previous trend? Explain that instead of foaming at the mouth.

Keep those gems coming!

Here is another gem from "The Great Teacher."

The casinos KNOW the cards aren't random because they painstakingly made them non random.

I'm speechless!

Originally Posted by Archer

Well, AD, why keep us in the dark? Are you playing his automatic SAP or are you selectiing tables and picking the correct method to go with the table?

There's nothing to keep in the dark about.

If I'm at an area where I can see the results on the table (BetPhoenix) I'll take what appears to be the best one for me. Why jump in on a bad table?

When I hit the live casino, I don't have any choice as it's usually just me at the only open table so I go in cold and play a pretty generic system until I can see 10 or 15 hands and then go with what I believe will work a little better. I'm liking BetPhoenix more and more as being able to see the hands already played is a big advantage to what system to play. And I don't have to deal with the chain smoking players that show up later in the evening.

And as hard as it is to believe, a version of SAP is one of the generic plays!

AD (+25 at BetPhoenix this afternoon)

BTW, you do realize your stepping on my Ellis Scam thread. But I'll let it go for you. ;-)

Originally Posted by ADulay

There's nothing to keep in the dark about.

If I'm at an area where I can see the results on the table (BetPhoenix) I'll take what appears to be the best one for me. Why jump in on a bad table?

When I hit the live casino, I don't have any choice as it's usually just me at the only open table so I go in cold and play a pretty generic system until I can see 10 or 15 hands and then go with what I believe will work a little better. I'm liking BetPhoenix more and more as being able to see the hands already played is a big advantage to what system to play. And I don't have to deal with the chain smoking players that show up later in the evening.

And as hard as it is to believe, a version of SAP is one of the generic plays!

AD (+25 at BetPhoenix this afternoon)

Well, we are still a little bit in the dark but not much. It is apparent that you are playing some kind of follow the trend. I don't want to put words in your mouth so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Guessing the right time and playing TBL, OTBL, FLD, OLD, even add Net Betting and any guess prog. It's all the same - it's gambling. MM, discipline. I suppose one version of SAP is as good as the next!

SAP Basic Rules
A) if 1's are frequent then start the prog 12
…..if 1's are infrequent then start the prog 21
……if 1's are least frequent then we only go 2
……if 2's are least frequent then we go 21
……if 3's are least frequent then we go 212
……if 4's are least frequent then we go 2123

……if 5's are least frequent then we go 21234

But frankly, AD, I find bragging about winning at gambling games a little immature. Primarily because it is taken out of context against. . . well, a years worth of play. Say 500 shoes. Therefore serves no real purpose. Secondarily, this is the Internet and people can say anything. Should I tell you about one of the last times I played recently and won 14 hands in a row? LOL, I wasn't flat bettng either! So what? You think that regular players on this site never won a shoe? LOL.

The point I try to make on this thread is that Ellis has a LOT of neat little trivial kind of betting systems. (Of course he prefers OTBL - lol). And then to up the ante he insists that he has SAP which wins 83% of shoes witch averages 6 units a shoe. Obviously you must be doing MUCH better than that or else you wouldn't be playing a "version of SAP." Who would blame you?

Anyone could make one hell of a living playing SAP! Problem is that it is a total lie! SAP Basic or NuSAP or AD's version of SAP does not win 83% of shoes and average 6 units a shoe.

AIN'T THAT THE MAIN POINT?????

So you are a good guesser, maybe I am, maybe Bryan is, maybe TheGoal is, maybe Ellis is . . .well, not Ellis because he doesn't really play. Is that what is being taught here? You can't teach guessing or intuition! You can teach fixed rules! Fixed rules can be programmed! Where is the program?

Anyone can do a test. Take the Basic rules above and plug in a count in order to decide which prog to play when. It's not that hard. Run it through a program and see waht comes of it. If Ellis did this lkke he says he'd be a gazillionaire instead of living in a retirement community in northern Arkansas. He is a scammer!

Archer

Originally Posted by Archer

BTW, you do realize your stepping on my Ellis Scam thread. But I'll let it go for you. ;-)


But frankly, AD, I find bragging about winning at gambling games a little immature. Primarily because it is taken out of context against. . . well, a years worth of play. Say 500 shoes. Therefore serves no real purpose. Secondarily, this is the Internet and people can say anything. Should I tell you about one of the last times I played recently and won 14 hands in a row? LOL, I wasn't flat bettng either! So what? You think that regular players on this site never won a shoe? LOL.
Archer

Hmm, all I said was I had a winning session that night. It's not bragging if it's true. (I think that's from some country song).

I will refrain from posting up any more casino results for the 8 or 9 people on this forum who actually play more or less regularly.

You won 14 hands in a row. Good job. I believe it. No problem there. Welcome to the club.

I don't believe I ever said that regular players (whatever those are) never won a shoe. I've read the results from many of the posters here and many do say they're winning. No problem there.

To finish, this thread has run it's course for me so I'll attempt to leave this one for others to ponder.

AD

Originally Posted by Archer

BTW, you do realize your stepping on my Ellis Scam thread. But I'll let it go for you. ;-)

So Archer, You are saying you can trash me all you want but anyone who rebuts you is stepping on your thread. That is how a 6 year old thinks

Originally Posted by Archer

Well, we are still a little bit in the dark but not much. It is apparent that you are playing some kind of follow the trend. I don't want to put words in your mouth so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Archer, you are so far in the dark there is no light at the end of the tunnel. But keep guessing. I'm sure that's a big help to everyone here.

Originally Posted by Archer

Guessing the right time and playing TBL, OTBL, FLD, OLD, even add Net Betting and any guess prog. It's all the same - it's gambling. MM, discipline. I suppose one version of SAP is as good as the next!
SAP Basic Rules

A) if 1's are frequent then start the prog 12
…..if 1's are infrequent then start the prog 21
……if 1's are least frequent then we only go 2
……if 2's are least frequent then we go 21
……if 3's are least frequent then we go 212
……if 4's are least frequent then we go 2123

……if 5's are least frequent then we go 21234

Keep guessing Archer. You might even come up with a good system. Certainly your first.

Originally Posted by Archer

But frankly, AD, I find bragging about winning at gambling games a little immature. Primarily because it is taken out of context against.

I'm sure it would seem like bragging to anyone as immature as you Archer.
We post our results, good and bad, along with exactly how we played so all members can see the actual casino results of various options.

Originally Posted by Archer

well, a years worth of play. Say 500 shoes. Therefore serves no real purpose.

It wouldn't to you Archer because you are too dumb to appreciate actual casino results with various systems.

Originally Posted by Archer

Secondarily, this is the Internet and people can say anything.

You've definitely proven that Archer. It's a playground for infantile liars like you. But not everyone uses it as an excuse to lie like you do. It's also a test of maturity. You fail.

Originally Posted by Archer

Should I tell you about one of the last times I played recently and won 14 hands in a row?

Now that is bragging Archer. But all experienced players have won 14 hands in a row Archer. It's very common. Hell, Garnabby watched 5 of us do it in Vegas. We only lost 3 hands the whole time he watched us. We were following an obvious trend. BTW, He announced beforehand that he would be there. We all knew who he was as soon as he opened his mouth. He posted about it afterward under his Garnabby name including what system we were playing. But then when he realized how big a fool he was making of himself, he denied ever being there. It was too late then. That is typical of Garnabby's childishness. You two just can't stand it when somebody else wins. Pure jealousy. Very sick! Normal people would be asking how we did that. But not you two.

Originally Posted by Archer

The point I try to make on this thread is that Ellis has a LOT of neat little trivial kind of betting systems. (Of course he prefers OTBL - lol). And then to up the ante he insists that he has SAP which wins 83% of shoes witch averages 6 units a shoe. Obviously you must be doing MUCH better than that or else you wouldn't be playing a "version of SAP." Who would blame you?

SAP is a counting tool Archer, a very good one that you wouldn't understand. It can be used to aid any system. It tells you the precise strength of all trends at any play in the shoe. If you follow its advice you usually win. 20 winning shoes in a row is not uncommon. Many of us have done that. AD won 70 something under the adverse conditions he described. But that is not our record as he knows. For that you'll need to check out Mark who is up several thousand units after his first year with us. But Mark is an extremely mature individual. So I'm sure you two wouldn't hit it off. You are more Garnabby's type. Complete bullshit artists.

Originally Posted by Archer

Anyone could make one hell of a living playing SAP! Problem is that it is a total lie! SAP Basic or NuSAP or AD's version of SAP does not win 83% of shoes and average 6 units a shoe.

Thanks for demonstrating my point so clearly and so quickly Archer. Insane jealousy makes for a tough life.

Originally Posted by Archer

Fixed rules can be programmed! Where is the program?

We have run many systems through 1000 shoe programs Archer. Hell, one hit a 34% Player Advantage. But I don't put much stock in that. You can't program card preps. You can't program table biases. You can't program time of day. All you can program is pure mechanical systems that play all shoes the same way. We never play that way because we know better. You can't program real casino conditions but that is exactly what we play - real world. Sorry but all your computer programming is a complete waste of time in my opinion. They don't reflect real world casino conditions but that is exactly what we play against. If you don't, you'll lose, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Archer

Anyone can do a test. Take the Basic rules above and plug in a count in order to decide which prog to play when. It's not that hard. Run it through a program and see waht comes of it. If Ellis did this lkke he says he'd be a gazillionaire instead of living in a retirement community in northern Arkansas. He is a scammer!

Archer, its no business of yours but I live exactly where I want to live, in a land of mountains, lakes, rivers and golf courses with other successful people and away from low life phonies like you and Garnabby. A good place for driving a BMW Roadster. Maybe one day you'll be that successful but I sincerely doubt it. It takes far more character than you'll ever have. Won't ever have to worry about the likes of you or Garnabby ever making it this far. Thank God!

As for your thread Archer - it sucks, just like all your posts. But it clearly demonstrates your extent of immaturity and the extent of your jealousy for all here to see. But it doesn't do a damn thing to improve anyone's game. That's obviously completely over your head. All you are good for is lying and making shit up. YOU are the scammer Archer. Most here know that. You keep proving it. A thread devoted to trashing someone trying to help others. That's exactly your speed Archer - a pitiful lowlife.

Originally Posted by Archer

Here is another gem from "The Great Teacher.

The casinos KNOW the cards aren't random because they painstakingly made them non random.

"I'm speechless!

You were never speechless Archer and never will be.

You studied BJ Archer. Did you not? If those studies took, which I doubt, then you know that plain Basic Strategy beats random cards. Did you win with BS Archer? I think not. Because the cards are NOT random. Why? Because the casino simply can't afford to lose in BJ. They win to the tune of 6% in the '90s to 16% today. Why do they win more than twice as much today? Because the cards are NOT random. Casinos LEARN Archer.

They use the same shuffle techniques and the same shuffle machines in Baccarat. But unlike casinos, some players are simply unteachable Archer. They prefer old wives tales and other such bullshit.

Archer, you told us a short while back that you yourself play biases. Remember? You said when you do it it is intelligence but when we do it its guessing. or some such BS. Remember? Well which is it Archer? Are the cards random or biased? They sure as hell can't be both.

I'm thinking you NOW say they are random simply because I said they aren't. Because it would be a cold day in Hell before you would agree with me on anything - no matter what. That's just the way you are, aren't you Archer.

Just here to check my mail... how are you now sillElli?

For the newcomers, one simple note: Everything from BTC has been turned around, and exaggerated! "Uncle Ellis" is the leader of the "cult", oops should i write band. And if you want to make me laugh, buy in there for the latest $25 never-lose system... end up peeing in a pop-bottle while sleeping in the trunk of your car, lol.

The other Bobsey twin awakes. I'm really beginning to wonder if they are the same person or just equally ignorant. We have an awful lot of players Garnabby. Of course they are all wrong and all liars. You, who doesn't play Baccarat and have no inkling how to beat it, have never offered a thing about how to beat it, have never been on our private forum, have no idea what we teach or how we win, YOU are the big expert. What have you accomplished with your degree? Only people who wasted their degree brag about it. Nobody would have you eh? No surprise there. Reduced to thrashing others eh. A complete waste of perfectly good skin. Hope you two 6 year olds are having fun. Can't play, might as well fight.

Originally Posted by Ellis

The other Bobsey twin awakes. I'm really beginning to wonder if they are the same person or just equally ignorant. We have an awful lot of players Garnabby. Of course they are all wrong and all liars. You, who doesn't play Baccarat and have no inkling how to beat it, have never offered a thing about how to beat it, have never been on our private forum, have no idea what we teach or how we win, YOU are the big expert. What have you accomplished with your degree? Only people who wasted their degree brag about it. Nobody would have you eh? No surprise there. Reduced to thrashing others eh. A complete waste of perfectly good skin. Hope you two 6 year olds are having fun. Can't play, might as well fight.

So sad, made my day, and all... but at least YOU still have ADulay, lol!

Originally Posted by John

I'm just wondering about the time he told you you didn't play the shoe right, why he didn't play it right himself. Hmm no need to answer, not to hard to guess why that was.

carlo down the johno, the best loser at the cheapest table,

Who, what, when, where, and why?

John, if you are talking to me I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you? I never told Archer or Garnabby how to play any shoe. Neither would listen anyway. They both already know everything. lol

Did you ever figure how often you'll hit a losing pattern of 6?
There are 8 patterns of 3
16 patterns of 4
32 patterns of 5
64 patterns of 6
None of that has a thing to do with binary numbers.
You will hit a specific pattern of 6 once every 128 plays on avg.
I have no idea of how you are arriving at your strange numbers.

Garnabby, I have AD and several hundred others. You can count YOUR sometimes followers on one hand. Why they follow you is a mystery since you don't know a thing about Baccarat and don't play. What are they following? -Since you never post a thing about Baccarat. I guess they are following your slander. Puts you all in a mentality class all your own. Can't play, might as well fight.

Originally Posted by Ellis

Garnabby, I have AD and several hundred others. You can count YOUR sometimes followers on one hand. Why they follow you is a mystery since you don't know a thing about Baccarat and don't play. What are they following? -Since you never post a thing about Baccarat. I guess they are following your slander. Puts you all in a mentality class all your own. Can't play, might as well fight.

Libel involves the written word; slander, the spoken word. (Better get in touch with that expensive attorney of yours, again, lol.)

You are the one making all the obviously-false claims... and not a single one backed up with ANY proof/evidence here, or anywhere else.

"Several hundred others"... hardly. Out of the 80 listed as paid-members on your old site which you could no longer afford, the only ones left are the "clones" like ADulay, lol? At any rate, more have left than remain... and by far, most never fell for your lies and exaggerations in the first place.

And, just for the record, i have written, etc, more about baccarat than you or anyone else at BTC combined. Work which doesn't require censorship, lies, etc, to stand on its own. And which hardly requires any further defence from the "nuts" like you.

__________________________________________________ _____________

Originally Posted by Steve

We are not dealing with certainties only probabilities.

If in doubt as to the accuracy of Baccarat data then you can turn to statistical tools such as the Chi-square test.

(i.e. a statistical test commonly used to compare observed data with data we would expect to obtain according to a specific hypothesis.)

Originally Posted by Ellis

Well said Steve - a refreshing return to sanity.

sillE,

If you understood what Steve wrote, you would have realized that he was in no way supporting your completely-unsubstantiated claim that there were longer runs at some time in the past. (Only a method to determine, were such runs abnormal.)

I guess anything for a cheap buck. Would you also climb a tree for a $1, or let university students test medications on you for $50? Don't the hospitals pay you for your blood anymore?

At any rate, looks more and more that YOU are alone, no matter where you "spread your sh*t" any more. Looks good on you. That, you deserve.

Not worth replying Garn. Have a good day.

Originally Posted by Ellis

Not worth replying Garn. Have a good day.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by Ellis

As for your thread Archer - it sucks, just like all your posts. But it clearly demonstrates your extent of immaturity and the extent of your jealousy for all here to see. But it doesn't do a damn thing to improve anyone's game. That's obviously completely over your head. All you are good for is lying and making shit up. YOU are the scammer Archer. Most here know that. You keep proving it. A thread devoted to trashing someone trying to help others. That's exactly your speed Archer - a pitiful lowlife.

Yeah, this thread does suck - - FOR YOU!!!! Because it points out your contradicting snake oil ways.

I see you spent a lot of time writing but not really good at defending your own statements. But how can anyone defend such statements like the ones below? Ellis wrote (blue):

". . .just remember that the cards have no memory."
(But past trends usually continue, right? Huh?)

"The casinos KNOW the cards aren't random because they painstakingly made them non random."
(One of your real classics! - how do they do that exactly, Ellis? Convenient statement that "proves" trend systems work but . . .cards don't have a memory - heehehehe; u r either a total idiot or a real slick con man - take your pick!)

"SAP is an automatic follow the shoe type system like ADOT, SKOR, Maverick and others." Ellis' answer: "No Archer, I never said that. You just now made that up out of thin air just like you can't help but do in every post you write. Why can't you ever write an honest post? What in hell is wrong with you." (From #44, Re: What a Good Post Looks like) Did I make that up? Don't think so, LOL! AND "all systems are tested to the nth degree."

So where's the "beef?" Ellis doubles down! To rebut my claim that SAP does NOT win 83% of shoes and average 6 units a shoe Ellis now infers that ALL his methods are automatic winning methods.

How about the one about how Basic Strategy has a 6% edge against random cards in Blackjack so the casinos had to rig the game to defeat players? LOL

I think everybody should just cut and paste Ellis gems in this thread and watch Ellis respond by calling people names!

Archer >>>-------------------> Shot again but still breathing, LOL. how are those $50.00 bills workin' out fer ya, Ellis?

Originally Posted by John

Written by the most bitter and twisted loser on the NET. The non-playing self-proclaimed policeman, comes with a VERY LIMITED track record. The self-elected keeper of the faith internet troll who could NEVER talk game because he simply can't afford to play it. Go figure, a wise non-playing bastard advising and picking holes in people that actually play the game posts.

Love this board... even the GG has "turned the bend"!

Say has thisSAP, SKOR,ADOT or maverick been posted somewhere? Thinkin about goin over to GG to check the archives..but Google flags the site as a potential harm to your computer.Would like to see if its worth what people have to pay to tweek the systems to work...thanks.

anyone having problems logging onto gg? I keep getting a message that it is a dangerous sight and it suggests I get out of there.