Thread: My Betting Strategy - Entire Shoe

If you have been following my thread on selective betting, then this is a different strategy on betting.

This is one of the system I explored and played in my earlier stage of playing baccarat full time. It is betting on almost every play for the entire shoe. It is not mechanical and there are multiple decision to be made every now and then. I played for about a year and with enough discipline, it do give me a good income as well.

Personally, I don't really like this strategy because with so many betting hands, there is a high risk that you will lost. And with you betting multiple hands, the bet size will be relatively small. You will need to spend long hours on the table as well to win more units and all in, your exposure is higher.


Frankly, I wouldn't have posted this thread if it is requested by a fellow player who PM me. The fact that I am going to post this method is not to tell you that this is going to make you BIG money or win you 1000 units in days (seriously, I still have a big doubt how betting $25 can win 1000 units), this is just another strategy that you can used while you are in the casino. This thread is also going to show you that they are many ways to win at casino and most methods can win you money. You don't need to pay money to learn, ultimately, there are only 3 results from each play, either player, banker or tie.

Someone said that nobody here figure out how to win at casino and it is totally not truth. Many people are just hiding between the computer screen researching for more information in this forum and they are winning big money at casino. They don't share is just because they are not ready or they just not willing to help. And that's doesn't mean that only ONE person know how to win at the casino and you have to learn their way.

I hope that you guys take a look at all these free information I posted here and think again, why it is that you are losing money. And as one of the post that I made earlier on my previous thread, most playing methods will make money if you know when to stop. I stand by that. Ask yourself how much is enough when you steps into the casino. You can't win millions in a single day betting $25, can you? Be reasonable and you should be a happy winner.

Posting on this forum is taking a big toll on me, I hate to engage into argument but, there are some facts that is not right out there. I don't want to dispute everything, but, reading nonsense every now and then give me a big headache. I might call it a day sooner than I know.

Good luck.

Hello Bryan,

This is very nice of you to share. I am just now getting into researching this wonderful game. I would very much like to see the system that you mention in your first post. I do not see any system posted in the first post though.

Regards,
Jeff

Now, the strategy.


Always start from game 4 of the shoe, with 1 unit, bet OPPOSITE LAST DECISION (OLD). So, if game 3 is Banker, you bet player or vice versa.

If that unit win, continue betting OLD with 1 unit till you hit the first lose with OLD.

When you get the the first lose with OLD, bet 2 unit with OLD again. If the 2 unit win, continue betting OLD with 1 unit till you hit the 2nd lost.

When you hit two lost (not consecutive, but, accumulative), we switch the play to FOLLOW LAST DECISION (FLD) in the next game.


Always start with 1 unit bet. We will bet it to be the same as previous. So, if previous game is BANKER, we bet BANKER or vice versa.

We will bet two units with FLD only when the next game we bet is going to be a 2's.
Example:

B
B <---- lose our 2nd OLD here.
P <---- start to bet FLD here (we lost)
P <---- bet 2 unit here as we anticipate it to be 2's


Otherwise, continue betting 1 units with FLD.

When you lost 3 units in a row (consecutive) with FLD, we switch play back to OLD.



Target win 10 units. Once hit 10 units, if the next bet lost and pull you below 10 units, stop.

If you manage to move to 15 units, any next bet that pull you below 15 units, stop.
If you manage to move to 20 units, any next bet that pull you below 20 units, stop.
and so on in range of 5 units.

Stop loss is 10 units.


Now, the above win/lose stop is a guide that I used to played. Different people have different guide. Some people set their stop lost to be higher than win and that is because they are using multiple progression. I am not.

I am not a fan of martingale (1-2-4-8 kinds of progression). If you lost 4 in a row, you need to win 15 single unit to get even. My progression is a 1-2. It depends on getting more rights than wrongs to win.


Next post. Sample shoe.

You are a good man Bryan.

This post is playing a sample shoe based on the strategy discussed in the previous post.

Again, let us take a look at Plasia's Play Log Shoe 1 (refer to his thread 'Plasia's Play Log').

Now, I am not purposely targeting at Plasia, but, in reference his shoe, my purpose is to show you guys that there are many methods and ways to beat a shoe. And think again, do you really need to pay $50 to learn? Do you really believe all those things?


Shoe #1

B1212142331
P54313211
P11223114121

Low: -2
High:9.5
Quit: 8.5



BPP
B <---- bet 1 unit OLD (win). Bank: 1
P <---- bet 1 unit OLD (win). Bank: 2
P <---- bet 1 unit OLD (lost). Bank: 1
B <---- bet 2 unit OLD (win). Bank: 3
P <---- bet 1 unit OLD (win). Bank: 4
P <---- bet 1 unit OLD. This is the 2nd lost. Switch play next.
P <---- bet 1 unit FLD (always start with 1unit). Bank: 4
P <---- 1 unit FLD each (win). Bank: 5
B <---- 1 unit FLD (lost). Bank: 4
B <---- 2 unit FLD (this is 2's). Bank: 6
P <---- 1 unit FLD (lost). Bank: 5
P <---- 2 unit FLD (this is 2's). Bank: 7
P <---- 1 unit FLD. Bank: 8
.
.
.
.
And so on....

I have uploaded the sample play. And depending on your appetite, it could give you a good win if you know when to stop.


Questions? Post here.

Hi Bryan,

bravo for the posting indeed.

i`ve something which i would like to highlight.

from my 20 over years of baccarat playing,ive tried many methods be it from so called pros or by my own generation of triggers etc etc

we have to master one thing which most players failed to do.

money management is the key to beat the casino long term.

i`m just trying to say all formulas strategies will fail if you can`t stick to a discipline of money management as every hand in baccarat is 50-50.

since you have the upper hand in system betting,it`s best if you can advice forummers on the low risk money management.

just my opinion.

regards,
kenwira.

Originally Posted by joshky

You are a good man Bryan.

Yes, Bryan is a good man and definetly a good family man.

The man is not greedy, he shares his winning strategy and a patience teaching people who like to learn. Bless your good heart.

What do you do when the result is a tie?

"The man is not greedy, he shares his winning strategy and a patience teaching people who like to learn. Bless your good heart."

I completely agree with you. Like I've stated earlier -- been reading this forum for several years, to learn and to better my game. He (Bryan) is the top of my list. Hopefully, with any luck I will keep you guys inform of my comeback. Thanks Bryan for taking time to respond to my PM.

Cheers!

Bryan,
Regarding the attached shoe, at the end you posted this sequence

FLD B 1 14
P -1 13
B -2 11
B 2 13 <<<< Since you lost the 1 and 2 unit bet don't you bet 1 unit?
P 1 14

Nice switch trigger bryan.

First thing.

Thanks for all the kind words. I am not as good as you guys think. If you have read somewhere (can't remember which thread I posted), I did say that I won't share all these 5 years back. Well, that is true because I am not ready then. I am still in the process of making money.

Today, I have made sufficient money to get by even if I retired tomorrow. With the money I make from casino, I have built up enough passive income to survive. I keep a very discipline life beside the casino. In chinese saying, there are 4 bad vice about man: Eat, Drink, Womanise and Gamble. I don't have all these vices besides gambling.

All the money that I make goes into shares, property, fixed deposit and funds. All these are giving me a nice income yearly which I am very comfortable with. I know many people will spend and enjoy after a casino winning, I do once in a while also, but, I believe life is more than that, don't you?

Now, let's get into business.

First, I don't really want to post this in the first place because I am afraid it is sending out the wrong signal to all of you. There I tell you to bet selectively and now here, I said bet every single hand.

I still stand by my word that betting many hands is not a good way to win in casino, you guys should know it as well. But, due to whatever reason, some people still want to.

Below is a PM from one of you, which I think you won't mind that I put this up as I have taken out your name.


BRYAN,

FIRST, THANKS FOR YOUR METHOD. I KNOW YOU HAVE GREAT KNOWLEDGE OF BACCARAT & PLAY ONLY SELECTED BETS, BUT MAY I ASK--WHAT IS
THE BEST WAY TO PLAY IF YOU WILL BET ALMOST ALL HANDS. SURELY IN ALL YOUR STUDIES & EXPERIENCE YOU CAME ACROSS PRETTY GOOD WAYS TO PLAY. HOW WOULD YOU PLAY IF YOU SIT DOWN & JOIN TO PLAY MOST HANDS EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT YOUR STYLE??
ANY THOUGHTS ARE APPRECIATED.

L.........



So, that's how this thread comes about. If you have to bet, I show you what I used to do many years back. You judge for yourself, is it workable and if it do and help you make money, then good for you. If it don't, then, you will lost some chips at the tables, but, hey, you don't pay for the system, do you?

But, I need to let you know that I don't play this system anymore. The one that I played is still the selective betting because I just need to hit 10 units a day with a higher unit size.

If you play this system, then you need to bet at the table minimum. You will need to play many shoes as well in a day to hit your target dollars value.

Originally Posted by yorick

What do you do when the result is a tie?

Ignore the tie. Just continue with OLD or FLD that are being played before that.

Originally Posted by dennisbelle

Bryan,
Regarding the attached shoe, at the end you posted this sequence

FLD B 1 14
P -1 13
B -2 11
B 2 13 <<<< Since you lost the 1 and 2 unit bet don't you bet 1 unit?
P 1 14

Dennis,

Yes, you got it. I played the last two wrongly. Should be

FLD B 1 14
P -1 13
B -2 11
B 1 12 <<<< Since you lost the 1 and 2 unit bet don't you bet 1 unit?
P -1 11

Thanks for spotting that.

Originally Posted by kenwira

Hi Bryan,

bravo for the posting indeed.

i`ve something which i would like to highlight.

from my 20 over years of baccarat playing,ive tried many methods be it from so called pros or by my own generation of triggers etc etc

we have to master one thing which most players failed to do.

money management is the key to beat the casino long term.

i`m just trying to say all formulas strategies will fail if you can`t stick to a discipline of money management as every hand in baccarat is 50-50.

since you have the upper hand in system betting,it`s best if you can advice forummers on the low risk money management.

just my opinion.

regards,
kenwira.

Kenwira,

You are right. MM is one of main key as well to beat the casino.

I used to see people betting 1 or 2 units a hands and when they lost about 10 units or so, they will just bet 10 units in one hand trying to recoup all the loses. If lucky, they will win back, but, most don't. That's not the way.

I always stick to 1-2 and slowly built it up. There are crazy times as well when I do bet 10 units or more, but, that is only when I have make enough units to spare and I don't do that often.


In my earlier playing times, my unit size is $25 and I know the frustration of making 1 unit at a times and seeing others winning big with $300 or $500 kinds of bet. But, that is life. You don't have money, built it slowly.

And don't get me wrong, $25 unit size is decent. If you win 10 units a day, you are looking at 5K monthly or $60k yearly. Not that bad at all, isn't it?

This is an interesting PM from A..... which I think is helpful to you. So I will reply it here.


Hi Bryan. I have played this game for 5 yrs and have been through miserable times, but still can't give up believing one day I could win like everyone else. I highly appreciate your efforts to share your knowledge and strategies of the game in this forum. To me, you seem to be most trustworthy because you don't have any intention to try to sell your system or lure other players. Again I really appreciate your help. Before I ask a question, let me tell you that I don't try to argue with your idea but really want to understand and apply your strategy into my game.

Getting to the point, you mentioned that no one system works on every shoe, but strategy does on your previous post-"My betting strategy". However, on your latest post-"My betting strategy-entire shoe", you propose a 'system' and you say that "It is not mechanical and there are multiple decision to be made every now and then. I played for about a year and with enough discipline, it do give me a good income as well." Although you said it is not mechanical, what you proposed sounds like a system betting to me. If not, the key point of this system must be "multiple decision to be made" and "with enough discpline".

Q1) I am eager to know what decisions you made when playing this system? Does it involve things like when to place bet or what table to play(I don't belive this)? Tell me more about these decisions of yours.

Q2) In terms of discipline, how many shoes do you allow yourself to play a day? Assuming you win 10units already, do you play another shoe or go home? And assuming you hit your loss cut, 10units, do you give yourself a second chance for the day? what is the best maximum win cut and loss cut? I know it all depends on certain conditions, but what was your numbers in general?

I seriously consider to apply your strategy for my next trip. After trying this and that, I don't have much hope of any new system or strategies. However, I strongly believe in what you said about yourself, and that gives me hope and I thank you for that.

Thank you and have an awesome day!

-----------------------------------------

Okay, I did mentioned that this is not a mechanical system and there are multiple decision to be made.

The sample shoe that I posted show you how it should be played if it is playing mechanical. But, look, mechanical way won't win you every shoes. It don't.

So where and what are the decision that need to be made.


First, we played OLD from game 4 onwards till we accumulate two loses. Let's me elaborate on why play OLD. I don't know about other, but, my live shoes data show that most shoes is choppy in the beginning 5 hands. The chance to lose OLD in game 4 and game 5 is low.


But, however low, there is still a chance and let's say the first 5 hands is PPPPP or BBBBB. So, here, you lost 3 units (1 unit in game 4 and 2unit in game 5).

This is the type of decision that I said. If you followed the system mechanically, you switch to FLD and bet till you lost 3 hands in a row.

Think. How often 6P or 6B comes out straight from the shoe? Will you bet on that to happen? If you ask the maths teacher, they will probably tell you no. But, I did see that happen before. So, it is your decision. If you not sure, then skip a few bet and continue later.

Let's say another scenario. You are betting FLD. It plays "PPP B PPP B PP B". Accordingly to the rule, the next bet you place will be 2 unit on BANKER, right? Now, look here, if I was to play, I will only play 1 unit. Why? I look at all the previous B play, there is no even a time is getting into 2's. Chances are it might not as well. But, we won't know till it is being played. So, lower the risk a bit and that decision is to be made by you.

All those 2 units bet I placed, FLD will always on 2's and OLD, once you lose a bet. There is reason behind it. I am not going to explain but, you go think and see if it works logically.

That's the problem with playing system. You need to look into every single details because one decision wrong, you could lose a big deal. So, would you still considered paying for systems that is being pushed here every now and then?


For the last question. It depends on how fast a shoe ends. Normally I will try to play 5-6 shoes a day with break in between. It can be very tiring after a shoe. At that time, my target is hitting 40 units a day with $25 unit size.

If I hit 40 units and the 5-6 shoes not yet up, I will continue betting, but, if any bet bring me down the 40 units, then I will stop and call it a day.

The loss cut of 10 units is for the shoe, not the day. If I lose 10units for a shoe, I will quit that shoe and start elsewhere. It is important to monitor your win/lose unit, if you lost 5-6 units, stop and look at the shoe, is it you played FLD/OLD at the wrong time?

Maximum win/lose cut a day. Up to individual. For me, 40 units win is about $1K a day, good enough for me, lose will be about 20 units. I don't like to lose and $500 that time is big enough to give me a bad mood


Hope I answer your question and let me know if they are not.

Bryan,
The present system you posted and play professionally is better than the quickie method I think
Tested your betting strategy twice.First shoe about equal banker and player distribution- won 12 units.
2nd shoe there were players all over with 2 "dragons" 11 streak and 10 streak of player.I replaced the banker with player and managed a 5 unit win .Great reluctance replacing banker with player as advised by you as it was getting late and I was sleepy.
tiger

I tested a few shoes using the Bryan's method and didnt have very good results. I made a few modifications and had better results. If anyone is interested, PM me and I will let you know.

Originally Posted by tiger

Bryan,
The present system you posted and play professionally is better than the quickie method I think
Tested your betting strategy twice.First shoe about equal banker and player distribution- won 12 units.
2nd shoe there were players all over with 2 "dragons" 11 streak and 10 streak of player.I replaced the banker with player and managed a 5 unit win .Great reluctance replacing banker with player as advised by you as it was getting late and I was sleepy.
tiger

Hi Tiger,

Thanks for the update, you are the 1st to post result playing my strategy.

Others have updated me through PM with their result and I would appreciate if that can be posted in the thread as well so that others can view and see if the strategy work.

Back to your view on which strategy is better. Different people have different view. Basically, both are different and is not right to compare.

This strategy posted here is betting through every hands while the selective betting is through pattern spotting and bet only when it occurs with high unit bet.

If I was to play this entire shoe system, I would need to win 20 units for every single unit win with the selective betting. Long term, I think it will be quite tough.

Originally Posted by tomddxx

I tested a few shoes using the Bryan's method and didnt have very good results. I made a few modifications and had better results. If anyone is interested, PM me and I will let you know.

Tom,

Not surprise to see it don't work very well. As I say before, no system can win every shoe and this strategy cannot be played mechanically as well.

Would you like to post your modification here for others to see as well? Would appreciate it as it will help all fellow players.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Bryan

Hi Tiger,

Thanks for the update, you are the 1st to post result playing my strategy.

Others have updated me through PM with their result and I would appreciate if that can be posted in the thread as well so that others can view and see if the strategy work.

Back to your view on which strategy is better. Different people have different view. Basically, both are different and is not right to compare.

This strategy posted here is betting through every hands while the selective betting is through pattern spotting and bet only when it occurs with high unit bet.

If I was to play this entire shoe system, I would need to win 20 units for every single unit win with the selective betting. Long term, I think it will be quite tough.

Bryan,

Does it make sense to play this present system by betting minimum in all hands and bet higher units when the selective betting trigger?

Anyone playing this way currently?

Originally Posted by Kent

Bryan,

Does it make sense to play this present system by betting minimum in all hands and bet higher units when the selective betting trigger?

Anyone playing this way currently?

Kent,

It is up to individual to adopt whatever playing system. You can do so, but, I would just stick to my selective betting as it is low risk and produce better result in long term.

Just heard that there is a new casino in Singapore opening with non commission Baccarat...

Marina Bay Sands

Due to open next week April 2010.

Seen this zero edge Baccarat online before (Betfair) but not on land casino....

Casinos still make money even without edge, given their big money bank and all those players that don't know when to stop!

Originally Posted by Bryan

Kent,

It is up to individual to adopt whatever playing system. You can do so, but, I would just stick to my selective betting as it is low risk and produce better result in long term.

Yes it is! As you know, I beleive that all systems can be simulated to find the overall advantage. I don't know if you did this or not but I applaude you for your honesty and efforts to post your entire system for all to see. That is what this forum is about.

Archer

Amen, Archer.

Non Commission pays half when banker wins on 6.

"..... Just heard that there is a new casino in Singapore opening with non commission Baccarat......... "

There are non comisssion Baccarat at RWS in Singapore as well, machine based or at the table. As pointed by another post, it pays half when Banker wins on 6 points.

As non commission Baccarat is faster, you can finish an entire shoe in about hour, you get a chance to see the whole game.

I observe that :
(1) On average B & P do win half of the distribution
(2) There are roughly 75 to 80 hands dealt, depending on natural wins
(3) Taking away ties, usually there are about 35 B & P
(4) There are usually 4 or 5 Banker wins on 6 points in a shoe

Assuming that you bet $100, 4 Banker wins on 6 points at non commission Bacarrat will "penalise" you $200.

Commission Bacarrat will "penalise" you $175.

So I would say that it is better to stick to the commission Baccarat, the only downside is that it is much more slower than the non commission type.

RWS does have a "Super Six" side bet that pays you 15 to 1 if Banker wins on 6. But this is akin to Pairs and Ties which are fun bets which take you away from the main game........

Originally Posted by Bryan

...... In chinese saying, there are 4 bad vice about man: Eat, Drink, Womanise and Gamble. I don't have all these vices besides gambling...........

Hi Bryan,
Hmmm.... I see things a bit differently.

(1) This is not entertainment or fun or thrill-seeking activity for you
(2) You make money out of this
(3) You study and work hard on this
(4) You find this sometimes "boring" and usually "physically and mentallly tiring" as mentioned in some other posts

With all these traits, it is totally opposite a vice activity which gives you fun, make a big hole in your pocket and give you highs while doing it.

I personally don't see it as a vice, Bryan.

This is akin to Day Trading .....in my view !!

hey Bryan what if we lost in the start of the game -1 then -2 is that counted as 2 loses or 1 lose and then the next -1 we will change to FLD? I will post the shoe here hope you can add in the betting selections and bankroll like you did in shoe1.txt thanks!