The game has been beat...

[joshky]

Sounds too good. More please.

[Thegoal]

I don't know what else to say. lol, honestly.

Except giving the system away, which I'm not going to do.

[Ellis]

I like thegoal's term "preset random". I also like his theory of why some shoes exhibit trends. And I also like his system even W/O knowing it. It is the FIRST Follow The Shoe type system discussed on this forum. In my experience, such systems are the only type of system that works better than 50/50 consistently and usurps the house edge.

I also respect his decision not to post his system. Why should he? What does he get in return? No one else here is even working on FTS systems. And several bad mouth them every chance they get. Why help them?

I have a good idea of what thegoal went through to come up with this. It didn't happen overnight. It's a painful process of elimination. Try and retry and try again. Some get there. Most never do. Perseverance!

We have mathematically based arguments on this forum. Such are ridiculous. Math is math. It's hard fact. Either you get it or you don't.

But most arguments involve semantics, not math. Observation, not Math. Just what does the word "trend" really mean? To me it means when one thing keeps happening in a shoe either more or less often than it "randomly" should. Such as consistently more opposites than repeats when randomly they should be equal in the long run.

You know, "random" is a poor choice of words yet it is the source of most arguments here. Random is virtually meaningless because it can encompass virtually anything. 72 Banks in a row is "random" when measured against infinity. But would you call it random in the Bac game you are playing right now? I don't think so. I think eventually it would occur to you to stop betting on Player. Hopefully.

Anyone who has played a choppy table for 8 or 10 hours KNOWS the game is not random. How or why it got non random is totally beside the point. If you haven't seen that, you simply haven't been playing long enough.

Shoes have trends, sometimes strong sometimes weak. But you have NEVER seen a shoe that hits ALL random occurrence numbers. NEVER!

You can't beat random numbers. THAT is the true definition of "random". For everything that is happening MORE than it should, something else MUST be happening LESS than it should. THAT is a trend. It's the ONLY thing we have to work with. All else is futile.

Yeah, the goal and I may have had a couple of rough edges up there but it turns out we are both recommending the same approach. In 30 years, its the only approach that I've seen work. Follow trends. Forget semantics. Stop arguing over nothing.

BTW one of my players, I believe it was one who was/is a member here, just completed his 57th win in a row. How? Yep, following trends in a systematic way. Can you do that playing your way?

[Thegoal]

I like thegoal's term "preset random". I also like his theory of why some shoes exhibit trends. And I also like his system even W/O knowing it. It is the FIRST Follow The Shoe type system discussed on this forum. In my experience, such systems are the only type of system that works better than 50/50 consistently and usurps the house edge.

I also respect his decision not to post his system. Why should he? What does he get in return? No one else here is even working on FTS systems. And several bad mouth them every chance they get. Why help them?

I have a good idea of what thegoal went through to come up with this. It didn't happen overnight. It's a painful process of elimination. Try and retry and try again. Some get there. Most never do. Perseverance!

We have mathematically based arguments on this forum. Such are ridiculous. Math is math. It's hard fact. Either you get it or you don't.

But most arguments involve semantics, not math. Observation, not Math. Just what does the word "trend" really mean? To me it means when one thing keeps happening in a shoe either more or less often than it "randomly" should. Such as consistently more opposites than repeats when randomly they should be equal in the long run.

You know, "random" is a poor choice of words yet it is the source of most arguments here. Random is virtually meaningless because it can encompass virtually anything. 72 Banks in a row is "random" when measured against infinity. But would you call it random in the Bac game you are playing right now? I don't think so. I think eventually it would occur to you to stop betting on Player. Hopefully.

Anyone who has played a choppy table for 8 or 10 hours KNOWS the game is not random. How or why it got non random is totally beside the point. If you haven't seen that, you simply haven't been playing long enough.

Shoes have trends, sometimes strong sometimes weak. But you have NEVER seen a shoe that hits ALL random occurrence numbers. NEVER!

You can't beat random numbers. THAT is the true definition of "random". For everything that is happening MORE than it should, something else MUST be happening LESS than it should. THAT is a trend. It's the ONLY thing we have to work with. All else is futile.

Yeah, the goal and I may have had a couple of rough edges up there but it turns out we are both recommending the same approach. In 30 years, its the only approach that I've seen work. Follow trends. Forget semantics. Stop arguing over nothing.

BTW one of my players, I believe it was one who was/is a member here, just completed his 57th win in a row. How? Yep, following trends in a systematic way. Can you do that playing your way?

I agree with this post.

The game, as random as 50/50 is, THIS game, is not in your face, hand by hand, random. It's just not. The rules of the game force trends to occur. Math, equal logic....do this every time this occurs, all of that nonsense just goes bust. Progressions make systems last for a long time before going bust. But they go bust.

People HATE following trends, because the human mind just can't accept that something so SIMPLE can actually work in a casino environment. I just got tired of seeing people make wild extreme "lucky" amounts of money, just following trends, while my stupid mechanical systems just stopped holding up. Don't get me wrong, it's not SIMPLE, my system, or any other system like it...but it is a TRILLION times more simpler than "advanced" systems out there that do not work long term. The depth of systems that are shoe driven just can't be understood by most...I believe that's probably why they are so rejected. It's not something you just sit down, and do as you did the last game. It's more to it. That's probably what turns most people off.

Let the shoe MOSTLY decide how you bet, NOT you. Just an insight.

[Thegoal]

Oh...and my system is not just a trend following system, it's a shoe driven way to follow shoe driven trends.

[John1234]

It works, I believe, because of the rules of the game. The "stands", such as 7s, 6s, naturals, effect the "randomness" of the game. Therefore, forcing certain trends to occur, and causing certain effects on the total "count" of the cards. Even though it is a random game, it's preset random. So, whatever the outcomes are, they are already in the shoe. So, it's not, on the spot, flip of a coin random. So, the rules of baccarat, force trends. The fact that there are a limited number of 8s, 10s, 3s, etc, partnered up with stand rules? Trends are forced. Random or not.

Naturals can "force" 3 players to come, when, if the cards were to be just drawn out, 3 for 3, using baccarat pip values, the results would be bpb, or bbp, or ppb, ...instead, because one or more of the results were naturals, it ended up being ppp.

Very hard to explain, but, it works. This post in no way gives away the system, but, gives an idea of the thought trail that lead me to create my system.

It's almost impervious to the house edge (I believe), because the system, changes, based on the flow of the stands, naturals, and "3 card draw hands". So, you will more than likely, not make the same type of bets, you made in the previous shoe, or even in any shoe you played earlier that day, in the following shoes you play. This factor, it's versatility, must be why it's so effective. I know, from extensive experience, anything that is mechanical, gets exploited by the house edge. No matter HOW long its worked.

Nice work. I think you are very smart to look at the game from this perspective. I have a system in development that probably is very similar to your system. The key to the system is to follow the shoe and the cards/natural sands. Playing this way I find it very hard to lose. Maybe one day I will end up playing in AC at the same table as you with nearly the same system haha

[Thegoal]

That would be pretty cool john1234.

I haven't had a need to improve the system yet. I am not sure yet, but, I think I've finally created a method that just works. Really works. I met a few guys who told me they have been playing baccarat for over 10 years, using a similar method. So I KNOW my method will keep working.

I am still too chicken to move up to $1000 to make $2000 a day. Right now I'm still using $500 to make $1000 a day. I don't play every day, maybe 2-3 days, some times 4 days a week.

I HATE the pit bosses. That glare and that smirk they give. It disgusts me. ESPECIALLY at places like foxwoods, and some ac casinos. It's sickening. But, I would assume that comes with being a winning player. Currently I am up $13,500 from the casinos. And I only started with $250-$500. I haven't spent any of the casino money yet. I want to build the courage to start using $1000 or even a $2000 starting base bankroll. I know it works, but, psychologically I am not ready for that betting size.

[Ellis]

You know you are doing something right when the Pit Boss hates you. Likewise, you are definitely doing something wrong when the pit boss loves you. Such is the casino world.

[Thegoal]

You know you are doing something right when the Pit Boss hates you. Likewise, you are definitely doing something wrong when the pit boss loves you. Such is the casino world.

It's ridiculous. Tons of players, play wildly, losing and winning exorbitant amounts of money. And they glare at the system player, smirking, impatiently waiting for whatever system we're using to go bust. Even if we're only making $100-$200 a shoe. Very sickening.

[Ellis]

Right! They are in it for the thrill not the money. That is a sickness I'll never understand - much like alcoholism. If you aren't playing with an edge, you are gambling - and gambling is sick. Most of these sick guys aren't even interested in an edge. That's too much work. To me, at least, that's pretty darn sick. But pit bosses and casinos LOVE them.

When you walk into the casino Marketing office and they say OH Shit you're back! You know you're doing something right! If they say which suite do you want this trip? You know you're sick.

[anotherusernametaken]

The Goal-If you give the system away and explain it I can assure you most people will not understand it. The rest will rag on you and say it is worthless. You will have at most 2 people who will be interested in playing. One cant get to a casino and the other does not have the money to invest in the project. user

[Thegoal]

The Goal-If you give the system away and explain it I can assure you most people will not understand it. The rest will rag on you and say it is worthless. You will have at most 2 people who will be interested in playing. One cant get to a casino and the other does not have the money to invest in the project. user

That's not true. Most people WILL understand it.

The system is very valuable. To me especially. It's almost unbeatable. And the only way to stop the person using it, is for the casino to ban that person. But, even that won't stop the person, because the person, such as myself, can just get family members, to go to the casino and use it.

[anotherusernametaken]

It may sound corny. But it is better to give than to receive. If you dont want to release it to us, give it to your cousin or your neighbours or ...

[Thegoal]

True,

I do plan on teaching my relatives, ....close ones that is. And of course, my sons, when they are old enough...that is if the casinos haven't already changed the game a bit.

Honestly, giving THIS away, is not the same as giving away money, or a way to make money. I give a lot, trust me. But, just GIVING away a gambling system, that beats the "house",....is sort of shooting the system in the foot.

If too many people are using it, it is detrimental.

Sorry.

[Ellis]

I don't think game changes will be a problem. The rules are international and have been consistent for 40 years. Our friends the Asians boycot casinos that try to change the rules. I was once evicted from the high stakes Big Bac room at the Stardust right in the middle of a casino exhibition. I had picked the Stardust because the high stakes room has a large overlooking gallery area that can hold 150 people easily. The pit boss kept yelling out from her high chair: "Ellis - You must play every hand." The system I was playing played about 90% of the hands. The Asians at my table and the other nine tables kept yelling back to her: "that's not in the rules". I was ahead about $3000 but finally when I skipped another hand she loudly evicted me. The whole room stood up and left including my gallery - about 250 people walked out of the casino en masse on a Sat. night. I knew her days at the Stardust were numbered.

A month later I was doing another exhibition at Foxwood - 3000 miles away when a loud familiar voice called out: "Ellis you must play every hand!" I looked up into the face of the same damn woman. I yelled back: "What are you going to call this new game you invented?" "Ellis - people are waiting to play". I stood up and yelled to my own gallery: "Does anyone want my seat?" No one replied. Then the huge Asian next to me pounded his fist on our $100 Big Bac table so hard that chips flew out of the dealer tray. "LADY GET AWAY FROM HERE - THIS IS OUR GAME!" The casino Mgr was on the scene immediately and fired her on the spot.

No, I don't think we need worry about any rules changes - not in our lifetimes. Not with our friends the Asians around.

BTW John, I think you know that the Asians call me "The Professor". I'm happy to see that you finally settled in on one user name. But your spelling has not improved.

[Archer]

I don't think game changes will be a problem. The rules are international and have been consistent for 40 years. Our friends the Asians boycot casinos that try to change the rules. I was once evicted from the high stakes Big Bac room at the Stardust right in the middle of a casino exhibition. I had picked the Stardust because the high stakes room has a large overlooking gallery area that can hold 150 people easily. The pit boss kept yelling out from her high chair: "Ellis - You must play every hand." The system I was playing played about 90% of the hands. The Asians at my table and the other nine tables kept yelling back to her: "that's not in the rules". I was ahead about $3000 but finally when I skipped another hand she loudly evicted me. The whole room stood up and left including my gallery - about 250 people walked out of the casino en masse on a Sat. night. I knew her days at the Stardust were numbered.

A month later I was doing another exhibition at Foxwood - 3000 miles away when a loud familiar voice called out: "Ellis you must play every hand!" I looked up into the face of the same damn woman. I yelled back: "What are you going to call this new game you invented?" "Ellis - people are waiting to play". I stood up and yelled to my own gallery: "Does anyone want my seat?" No one replied. Then the huge Asian next to me pounded his fist on our $100 Big Bac table so hard that chips flew out of the dealer tray. "LADY GET AWAY FROM HERE - THIS IS OUR GAME!" The casino Mgr was on the scene immediately and fired her on the spot.

No, I don't think we need worry about any rules changes - not in our lifetimes. Not with our friends the Asians around.

BTW John, I think you know that the Asians call me "The Professor". I'm happy to see that you finally settled in on one user name. But your spelling has not improved.

How about the date and room that "exhibition" took place, Ellis? Fair enough?

Archer in Connecticut

[Archer]

Most casino's have a Professor, it is not unique name just for you Ellis.

You mean they don't call hiim Uncle Ellis! pffff

[Archer]

True,

I do plan on teaching my relatives, ....close ones that is. And of course, my sons, when they are old enough...that is if the casinos haven't already changed the game a bit.

Honestly, giving THIS away, is not the same as giving away money, or a way to make money. I give a lot, trust me. But, just GIVING away a gambling system, that beats the "house",....is sort of shooting the system in the foot.

If too many people are using it, it is detrimental.

Sorry.

You mean you didn't take Uncle Ellis up on his offer last month to "comp" you into his website (whoopeee doo a $50.00 comp) so you could have "his people" test your method. Of course, if you did or would he will tell you that it is awfully like a method he uses himself - lol.

Funny how Uncle Ellis cozies up to everyone who states they have a winning method! What? His dozen methods with players winning 40 50 units a shoe (post about Mark referenced) isn't good enough? Hmmmm?

Hold on to your wallet guy! That's Uncle Slipperies M.O.!

Archer

P.S. Didn't you say you were "about to leave" this site, Ellis? (For the 100th time! - LMAO)

[Archer]

You know you are doing something right when the Pit Boss hates you. Likewise, you are definitely doing something wrong when the pit boss loves you. Such is the casino world.

Ellis sucking up again, hehe. Ellis knows darn well the Pit Boss is NOT watching The Goal who is buying in for $500.00 and playing a few shoes and winning $1,000.00 and leaving.

OK, so The Goal is confusing the Pit Boss with the table Inspector. That's understandable for someone obviously knew to the game. But Ellis knows that the Pit boss is not watching the tables and he knows that the Inspectors don't hate him!

Look, Goal, I hope you win every shoe you play until the day you die! But when you come in here telling us that the Pit Boss (or Inspector) is smirkiing at you for winning $1,000.00 bucks and leaving . . .We didn't fall off the back of a turnip truck!

They don't care! They just want your play. THEY WANT YOU TO PLAY!!!!! If you win a lot of money they will just treat you like a King in order to get you to come more often! They will give you meals, rooms, tickets - anythiing! When you wiin a LOT of money they will send a liimo to bring you to the casino!

Banned? Here is how it works. They monitor play and as long as you are in the realm of Standard Deviation they will let you play. If a person wins more than what is STATISTICALLY CONCEIVEABLE (and that will take a LONG time) they will call you a cheat and ask you to leave (not in AC because they cannot make you leave in AC - only LV and Idian Casinos).

So have no fear - go ahead and break the bank!

Archer

[joshky]

True,

I do plan on teaching my relatives, ....close ones that is. And of course, my sons, when they are old enough...that is if the casinos haven't already changed the game a bit.

Honestly, giving THIS away, is not the same as giving away money, or a way to make money. I give a lot, trust me. But, just GIVING away a gambling system, that beats the "house",....is sort of shooting the system in the foot.

If too many people are using it, it is detrimental.

Sorry.

If only you could consider a very close relative of yours and that i live in a third world, i could be considered one of your disciple just to testify you are the man and that your system works.

[Archer]

If only you could consider a very close relative of yours and that i live in a third world, i could be considered one of your disciple just to testify you are the man and that your system works.

Just send Ellis 50 bucks joshky. He will make you rich! No? But The Goal wil???????????????

A

[joshky]

I will only send the 50 bucks to Ellis, only if you recommend him, Archer.

[Ellis]

Here comes 2 of the 4 the complete idiots again. Garnabby posted some of my seminar announcements Archer. Ask him.

[joshky]

Here comes 2 of the 4 the complete idiots again.

lol.

[Archer]

Here comes 2 of the 4 the complete idiots again. Garnabby posted some of my seminar announcements Archer. Ask him.

Hahahah. We know you sell seminars, too, Ellis. Because you sell seminars that gives you credibility somehow - ?? Remeber "The System" semminar that beats Baccarat, Roulette, and Craps. That's who you are - Seminars, Subscriptions, Systems . . .nothing new there!

Ellis, please explain to us again that "James" O. Thorpe beats BJ wth Basic Strategy. And that the casinos rig the Baccarat game to confuse the plaeyrs! LMAO Have you ever reread the Twister manual?

Hey - when was that Baccarat Exhibit at Foxwoods - lol -How about an answer! Duh, can't remember somehow?

pffffffff

[Thegoal]

You mean you didn't take Uncle Ellis up on his offer last month to "comp" you into his website (whoopeee doo a $50.00 comp) so you could have "his people" test your method. Of course, if you did or would he will tell you that it is awfully like a method he uses himself - lol.

Funny how Uncle Ellis cozies up to everyone who states they have a winning method! What? His dozen methods with players winning 40 50 units a shoe (post about Mark referenced) isn't good enough? Hmmmm?

Hold on to your wallet guy! That's Uncle Slipperies M.O.!

Archer

P.S. Didn't you say you were "about to leave" this site, Ellis? (For the 100th time! - LMAO)

I have more than enough comps. I wouldn't ever need any more.

[Thegoal]

If only you could consider a very close relative of yours and that i live in a third world, i could be considered one of your disciple just to testify you are the man and that your system works.

lol,

The way I play stems from a skill developed from being a successful day trader. No offense. But, partnering up with the right individual for a decent amount of time, I'd be more than willing to. You'd make money, and learn a lot about me and stuff about the casinos you didn't know before, but, you wouldn't learn my system. Sounds fair right?

[Thegoal]

Just send Ellis 50 bucks joshky. He will make you rich! No? But The Goal wil???????????????

A

Archer...honestly...what is your deal?

[Ellis]

Archer is just making stuff up, as always. I have't comped anyone and comps are worth $500, not $50. It's just more and more of his pure B.S.

He posted on my public forum that he had a winning flat bet system that involved advantage betting. But then he couldn't tell us what an advantage bet was or what his system was. He also claimed that progressions must win half the bets to win overall. Of course now he doesn't remember any of that crap. The guy is pure made up BS. He's lible to say most anything. As far as I'm concerned he can say it to the other 3 nitwits. I refuse to read anything he writes because its all worthless made up BS.

[Archer]

Archer is just making stuff up, as always. I have't comped anyone and comps are worth $500, not $50. It's just more and more of his pure B.S.

Really? Ooops! On 3/18/2010 in this very thread Ellis wrote The Goal: "If you want, my guys can thoroughly test it for you. - Perhaps even get you a playing partner. I can arrange a two month comp for you on my forum. Experts will thoroughly test it at my say so." Comps worth $500 bucks? LMAO. You should really try to remember what you post, Ellis.

But you do have one good idea! Thoroughly test it? You don't test the stuff YOU make up for cripe sake!

He posted on my public forum that he had a winning flat bet system that involved advantage betting. But then he couldn't tell us what an advantage bet was or what his system was. He also claimed that progressions must win half the bets to win overall. Of course now he doesn't remember any of that crap. The guy is pure made up BS. He's lible to say most anything. As far as I'm concerned he can say it to the other 3 nitwits. I refuse to read anything he writes because its all worthless made up BS.

Thank you for this opportunity! Keep digging yourself into a hole, Fast Eddie! "Ultimate Baccarat" at "casinoedge.com" is one flat bet method which has shown through simulation to have about a 2% advantage (about a unit a shoe). There is another one we tested with several thousand real shoes. I already talked about it. If anyone is interested I will bring it up again. Advantage betting is the same as strike point betting. I have already stated again recently not that progressions must win HALF their bets but must win MORE of the big bets then small bets to win, duh - Dude - elementary!

Ellis, feel free to cut and paste anything I wrote on you highly controlled Nazi forum. You know, the public part - with the LOCKS on the doors! I am always VERY happy to discuss BACCARAT!

Archer>>>-------------------->