Thread: Why People Lost In Baccarat

I am living a comfortable life, thanks to baccarat. Please don't look at it as if I am trying to show off or boast, but, after having play full time for the past 15 years, I thought I might be able to contribute something here.

I got a few people pm me after my previous post about Ellis claim about pit boss watching his play. So, I thought I like to urge people here, if possible, don't think too highly of it.

Now, Ellis, don't read it as though I am bashing you, but, I thought I should let others read about what I think about the whole thing.

For me, I wouldn't even bother to setup a site and teach baccarat, why? For $50 per month and assuming having 100 member, that is about $5k per month, I need to reply and post queries daily and then trying to pull people from this forum over as well. The amount of time and that $5K is totally no good ROI. I can make much more than that in the casino.

Now, pause for a moment and think. If you are Ellis, and you are that good, would you really waste your time like this?

Ok, I have read that Ellis is 70 years old and playing for 30 years plus, again, that would make him a very rich man, wouldn't it? After playing 15 years, I could have retired, but, who doesn't like money and I am just into my early 40, I think I can go on for another 10 or so years.

Which bring back the question: why would Ellis do so after 30 odd years of playing, unless...... he don't make much from the casino.

So, my point here is: don't think of forking out money to buy into any system. There is no system that can win you every shoe and every game.

If you are losing in baccarat, take a break from it. It could do you more good. Think about how you lost, why you lost, the way you bet and if you could reverse it, how would you go about betting again.

Ask yourself did you ever get ahead in the casino? I believe many people win a bit and then eventually lost it all. How to overcome it?

A lot of the factors is your mindset, betting strategy and money management. I will talk about that again.

You make some valid points. Have wondered that myself.

I agree that the Pit Boss thing isn't that great but its still the best on this forum. But it misses my point of selecting the best system for the table/shoe at hand. No single system can do the job alone. It takes knowing at least several systems that cover ALL situations, then select the most biased table, then select the best system for that bias and change if necessary. But good table selection and then good system selection is key. I find myself changing systems mid shoe only about once in 12 shoes.

I also agree with your other advice to take breaks and learn from your successes as well as your failures.

As to continuing to play full time, I think after 30 years of casinos, a stroke and 4 heart attacks, and 5 way bypass, I don't think playing full time is in my best interests these days. To each his own.

Sure, you can probably go another ten years. But then you'd be quitting 20 years younger than me. Seems a little contradictory

Byran and Ellis both have good points.

I have been playing professionally for the last five years and recommend that if you have a system or approach that you believe works, set a
draw down limit. Every system goes through a range of fluctuations.
You should know what those ranges are for a reasonable playing session, I use 20 shoes for a session, and 100 shoes to set a draw down limit.
If I hit my limit for 20 shoes, I stop and look at what happened.
If I exceed my 100 shoe limit, I start thinking about adjustments. My approach is fairly complex so I need to understand why I lost.
Was it the bet selection at a given point in the shoe, or was the money management not right for the selection method?

Don't just take a break to get away from the game . Use your time to get
analytical about what you are doing.

PS. if you are not sure how to set limits, take a look at a web site called discountgambling.com. It is not about baccarat, but the fellow who runs
it iillustrates how he set limits for his favorite game called Ultimate Texas Holdem. This is recreational, but you can see how he determind expectations for a single session.

Just an aside here.
Ellis speaks well for himself, so this is not Ellis specific.

Don't assume that someone is not successful (or knowledgeable)
because they are still working. You never know the next persons life story. Some people actually like what they do.

Hey Warren Buffet, if you are really so rich, why do you go to the office every day?

On the darl side, some famous poker stars are actually broke for a variety of reasons like bad investments, divorce, lost at other games etc.
I still want to hear what they have to say about poker.

Hey Pil Helmuth or JT Cloutier, if you are really so good, why are you teaching these boot camps? Why do you spend time on a web site?

I think you get my point.

Originally Posted by Ellis

As to continuing to play full time, I think after 30 years of casinos, a stroke and 4 heart attacks, and 5 way bypass, I don't think playing full time is in my best interests these days. To each his own.

Then, I would advise you to stop and take a long and good rest. Reading posts that turn against you here every now and then might not be too good for your heart.

Originally Posted by Profbac

Just an aside here.
Ellis speaks well for himself, so this is not Ellis specific.

Don't assume that someone is not successful (or knowledgeable)
because they are still working. You never know the next persons life story. Some people actually like what they do.

Hey Warren Buffet, if you are really so rich, why do you go to the office every day?

On the darl side, some famous poker stars are actually broke for a variety of reasons like bad investments, divorce, lost at other games etc.
I still want to hear what they have to say about poker.

Hey Pil Helmuth or JT Cloutier, if you are really so good, why are you teaching these boot camps? Why do you spend time on a web site?

I think you get my point.

I agreed with you totally as I have lost quite a big amount on the stock market earlier last year (though those stock has seem rebounded back).

But, you really missed my point. The main point is, don't spend money to buy into any system.

You and I are professional for several years and we know the game. Many people don't. They lost and hope that they can hope on something that will salvage their fortune and live a better life. And they might be conned into system.

Now, if Ellis just post about his thought and game plan or anything, it is fine. But, if it ends with something like "back at my forum, we talk about xxxxxx and it cost only $50/mth", I think many desperate player may take it on and being suck further.

And btw, I just checked, hosting a forum don't cost you much a month. For less than $50, that is pretty cheap and with Ellis 30 years plus of knowledge, there should be plenty of people going to his forum daily and making money through ads or donation should be easy. Just like what Mike did over here. Surely, I won't mind donating $50 or $100 monthly to help keep his site going if his system is going to make me thousands.

And I am not just making accuse, I read up posts on GG on Ellis as well and know that the price started from $500 initially. That's pretty steep.

Originally Posted by Bryan

Then, I would advise you to stop and take a long and good rest. Reading posts that turn against you here every now and then might not be too good for your heart.

Ha, probably not but couch potatoes don't last long either. I was raised in the major corporations. Gave them about 25 years. Major Plant Mgr life expectancy is one year. I did it for 11. I attended MANY retirement parties just to attend the funeral a few months later. I think retirement is the biggest killer in the US. I think the secret to long life is to keep your body and mind active. Use it or lose it.

The two guys that still "turn against" me are easy pickings for me after the life I've had. And the guys on my own forum are always friendly and more mature. But you are right, I should stay out of reach. High IQ guys get that their whole life. Look at the abuse Marilyn Vossavant ("Ask Marilyn") (200 IQ) has to put up with - even life threats - always from lower minded individuals.

Hi, Just wanna share my observation. Anyone who gambles regularly knows this, everyone knows how to win but not everyone know how to lose. When on a winning streak, one should take the most advantage of the winning streak and when on a losing streak, should ride it out with the lowest lost possible. But most players I see do the exact opposite. That is the most common reason why winnings are normally smaller than their losses and when they lose, normally lose their pants.

I read a interview of John May, he says his strategy is try to win 4 bets in a row using 1324 units. If at any time he losses, he will revert to 1 unit. I have tried this for almost 2 months now and results have been promising. Winnings tend to be much bigger than losses in general and even on a losing streak, I go down giving the casino a good fight for my money.

Fann

Originally Posted by Bryan

I am living a comfortable life, thanks to baccarat. Please don't look at it as if I am trying to show off or boast, but, after having play full time for the past 15 years, I thought I might be able to contribute something here.

I got a few people pm me after my previous post about Ellis claim about pit boss watching his play. So, I thought I like to urge people here, if possible, don't think too highly of it.

Now, Ellis, don't read it as though I am bashing you, but, I thought I should let others read about what I think about the whole thing.

For me, I wouldn't even bother to setup a site and teach baccarat, why? For $50 per month and assuming having 100 member, that is about $5k per month, I need to reply and post queries daily and then trying to pull people from this forum over as well. The amount of time and that $5K is totally no good ROI. I can make much more than that in the casino.

Now, pause for a moment and think. If you are Ellis, and you are that good, would you really waste your time like this?

Ok, I have read that Ellis is 70 years old and playing for 30 years plus, again, that would make him a very rich man, wouldn't it? After playing 15 years, I could have retired, but, who doesn't like money and I am just into my early 40, I think I can go on for another 10 or so years.

Which bring back the question: why would Ellis do so after 30 odd years of playing, unless...... he don't make much from the casino.

So, my point here is: don't think of forking out money to buy into any system. There is no system that can win you every shoe and every game.

If you are losing in baccarat, take a break from it. It could do you more good. Think about how you lost, why you lost, the way you bet and if you could reverse it, how would you go about betting again.

Ask yourself did you ever get ahead in the casino? I believe many people win a bit and then eventually lost it all. How to overcome it?

A lot of the factors is your mindset, betting strategy and money management. I will talk about that again.

Originally Posted by Bryan

And btw, I just checked, hosting a forum don't cost you much a month. For less than $50, that is pretty cheap and with Ellis 30 years plus of knowledge, there should be plenty of people going to his forum daily and making money through ads or donation should be easy. Just like what Mike did over here. Surely, I won't mind donating $50 or $100 monthly to help keep his site going if his system is going to make me thousands.

And I am not just making accuse, I read up posts on GG on Ellis as well and know that the price started from $500 initially. That's pretty steep.

No, no, The BTC price did not change in spite of anything Garnabby may have said. It is still a one time price of $500 for lifetime membership. At popular request we merely added a $50 a month option due to the scarcity of cash in the U.S right now.

And I don't sell a system. I teach several approaches that involve knowing many systems and how to determine which is best for the shoe at hand.

Also we don't allow ads of any kind. My forum is strictly Baccarat.

Most of my members tried all of the free sites and between them have bought every system on the market. They tell me my site is the only site that teaches how to win and the only site where the instructor plays in the casino right along side his students.

Many players have switched from BF to BTC in spite of the $50 a month tuition and a few are on both.

W/O naming names to protect this player from the wrath of Garnabby
here is a direct quote from one such BTC member posted yesterday:

"To answer your question, I like this forum a lot. Baccaratforums does not even come close to the BTC forum.You are right about it being in the dark ages. All of those people who keep putting this forum down are crazy. Also, it is worth joining this forum just for the peaceful community alone."

Originally Posted by Ellis

No, no, The BTC price did not change in spite of anything Garnabby may have said. It is still a one time price of $500 for lifetime membership. At popular request we merely added a $50 a month option due to the scarcity of cash in the U.S right now.

And I don't sell a system. I teach several approaches that involve knowing many systems and how to determine which is best for the shoe at hand.

Also we don't allow ads of any kind. My forum is strictly Baccarat.

Most of my members tried all of the free sites and between them have bought every system on the market. They tell me my site is the only site that teaches how to win and the only site where the instructor plays in the casino right along side his students.

Yeah, yeah yeah. Heard them all.

A very intellectual post Joshky.

Originally Posted by Ellis

Many players have switched from BF to BTC in spite of the $50 a month tuition and a few are on both.

W/O naming names to protect this player from the wrath of Garnabby
here is a direct quote from one such BTC member posted yesterday:

"To answer your question, I like this forum a lot. Baccaratforums does not even come close to the BTC forum.You are right about it being in the dark ages. All of those people who keep putting this forum down are crazy. Also, it is worth joining this forum just for the peaceful community alone."

I think the above is as good as never say.....anyone can type that out easily, isn't it?

It is wrong to compare BF and BTC. One is free and one is charging. And in my opinion, $50 per month is really peanut, but, for those who join, play and lost money, will you refund them? Or everyone who join enjoy a single casino outing with you so that you can guide them hand on for a session to get back that $50?

Geez, as I've said 2 zillion times here, I regularly play with my students. No other instructor does that. I've been doing it for 30 years. They nearly always win when they play with me. All 15 won on our last Vegas 4 day trip. But we usually play Tunica and have posted the group trip reports right here only to get criticized and get called liars for doing so by complete idiots who don't even play. I've played with at least a thousand of my students.

Your accusation that I would make up a post is ridiculous. I don't have to make up posts and could copy such posts here all day long. I posted that one because it was from a recent member of this forum and he had just posted it on my forum that same day.


None of my students are the least bit concerned about the tuition which is just a small fraction of their winnings. Why would you be?

Originally Posted by Ellis

Your accusation that I would make up a post is ridiculous. I don't have to make up posts and could copy such posts here all day long. I posted that one because it was from a recent member of this forum and he had just posted it on my forum that same day.


None of my students are the least bit concerned about the tuition which is just a small fraction of their winnings. Why would you be?

You can't really blame me for writing that. You should already knew that. By not naming the source or people, and in this free internet world, anybody can say anything, isn't it?

Now, read my post again. I was never concern about the fee. In fact, I say $50 is peanut.

The problem here is you are talking about how good your system and forum are and to check out, people need to pay you $50.

Now, let's face it. I got so many PM from people here and I knew what type of situation they are facing. They are losing and if you are going to pay $50 to you and find that it don't work. They are not getting anything out of it.

Here is the challenge. Open your forum for a week or so to all people here to check your forum out and if it is true, I think people will be more willing to pay you the fee. Or how about, let people join and if they think it don't work, let them get their refund within 1 months.

To quote your word, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Bryan

But, you really missed my point. The main point is, don't spend money to buy into any system.

You and I are professional for several years and we know the game. Many people don't. They lost and hope that they can hope on something that will salvage their fortune and live a better life. And they might be conned into system.

Now, if Ellis just post about his thought and game plan or anything, it is fine. .

Bryan,
1. I do agree with you (yes, I missed your main point)
2. On my drive home from Atlantic City I actually reflected on this post.
(It was a very boring drive) and here is a response to my post that nobody offered, so I will.

Hey Profbac, Warren Buffet and his money are public information.
Phil Helmuth, TJ Cloutier, all won major titles in nationally televised contests. So if they tell us how to do it, we pay to hear, because we know they are real. How many baccarat system sellers have any documents success. If they do, great. But that is a very fair question.

Originally Posted by Profbac

Hey Profbac, Warren Buffet and his money are public information.
Phil Helmuth, TJ Cloutier, all won major titles in nationally televised contests. So if they tell us how to do it, we pay to hear, because we know they are real. How many baccarat system sellers have any documents success. If they do, great. But that is a very fair question.

That's a good answer. I would love to read success stories from system seller.

Better still, here in my neighboring country casino (Malaysia Genting), they do baccarat championship once in a while, not sure will they do so this year.

Maybe Ellis or his expert player should try their luck out and that should be the best testimonial.

Originally Posted by Profbac

Bryan,
1. I do agree with you (yes, I missed your main point)
2. On my drive home from Atlantic City I actually reflected on this post.
(It was a very boring drive) and here is a response to my post that nobody offered, so I will.

Hey Profbac, Warren Buffet and his money are public information.
Phil Helmuth, TJ Cloutier, all won major titles in nationally televised contests. So if they tell us how to do it, we pay to hear, because we know they are real. How many baccarat system sellers have any documents success. If they do, great. But that is a very fair question.

I also agree with this very much. I've been demanding for 30 years that system sellers and BJ Card Counting gurus do the same. These demands were made in my published books NBJ and WCB, available at my site. I have posted my history here only to be called a liar. I mentioned you NEVER see any of these guys in a casino. I've challenged all of them to come and play me. 5 card counting "experts" came. I won $10,000 in a half hour while they lost their shirts. Hundreds of people came to the Taj to watch. Jerry and Nancy Patterson were standing right behind me watching every play. And I've done hundreds of such exhibitions all over the world without losing a single one. All are covered in my published Newsletters, also available. Several of my current members attended many of those exhibitions, both BJ and Baccarat. Three times the casino closed the Bac table right in the middle of my exhibition, Stardust, Turning Stone and Foxwood. At Turning Stone, where 7 of my members were playing with me, we were each up $15,000 in the first half of the first shoe. They closed the big bac table mid shoe and left it closed for two years. No one in the history of either game has proved their wares to anywhere near the degree I have. All of this has already been posted on this forum - only to be called a liar by some idiot who has no credentials whatsoever and has even come and watched us win.

Whether you guys believe this or not, its all on public record and several of the guys who WERE there are still around today. My first Baccarat book sold $667,000 in the first month of sales. Nearly every buyer had come to see me play. I now have 13 books published and one more yet to be finished. That's my life story in a nut shell. Then I run into idiots like Garnabby who have never done anything to prove their point. No one has ever seen him play. Anywhere, ever. I don't intend to do this all over again just because I have a couple of young doubters who weren't there. Once was enough.

QUOTE/ "Now, let's face it. I got so many PM from people here and I knew what type of situation they are facing. They are losing and if you are going to pay $50 to you and find that it don't work. They are not getting anything out of it." QUOTE/

No you don't. Maybe one or two from guys that weren't there long enough to read the index against hundreds of recomendations from actual members who know what they are talking about - even some from this forum. Every class I ever taught in ANY subject, you always get a few first day drop outs.

They were likely looking for some simple, 5 minute, magic system that wins every shoe. Sorry, that doesn't exist. It takes effort to learn how to beat this game. Most possess that effort, but not all.

Originally Posted by Ellis

I also agree with this very much. I've been demanding for 30 years that system sellers and BJ Card Counting gurus do the same. These demands were made in my published books NBJ and WCB, available at my site. I have posted my history here only to be called a liar. I mentioned you NEVER see any of these guys in a casino. I've challenged all of them to come and play me. 5 card counting "experts" came. I won $10,000 in a half hour while they lost their shirts. Hundreds of people came to the Taj to watch. Jerry and Nancy Patterson were standing right behind me watching every play. And I've done hundreds of such exhibitions all over the world without losing a single one. All are covered in my published Newsletters, also available. Several of my current members attended many of those exhibitions, both BJ and Baccarat. Three times the casino closed the Bac table right in the middle of my exhibition, Stardust, Turning Stone and Foxwood. At Turning Stone, where 7 of my members were playing with me, we were each up $15,000 in the first half of the first shoe. They closed the big bac table mid shoe and left it closed for two years. No one in the history of either game has proved their wares to anywhere near the degree I have. All of this has already been posted on this forum - only to be called a liar by some idiot who has no credentials whatsoever and has even come and watched us win.

Whether you guys believe this or not, its all on public record and several of the guys who WERE there are still around today. My first Baccarat book sold $667,000 in the first month of sales. Nearly every buyer had come to see me play. I now have 13 books published and one more yet to be finished. That's my life story in a nut shell. Then I run into idiots like Garnabby who have never done anything to prove their point. No one has ever seen him play. Anywhere, ever. I don't intend to do this all over again just because I have a couple of young doubters who weren't there. Once was enough.

Ellis, if whatever you said is true (sorry, I really don't have time to search up all those records that you said), then I agreed that you may be something that others can look up for.

But, it just make me wonder what the hell you are doing over here? Now, I don't totally disagree with whatever you said. You should know that. Certain thing that you said (such as table selection) I agreed because that should be the way to play.

I myself try to look for favorable playing table if I could. But, don't tell me you are a fan of 2Hi system or whatever system, because I don't even know what the hell are those and in order for me to find out, I need to pay $50 to you.

When I mentioned my strategy, I do give it out to those who bother to PM me. I don't talk about air. They get my strategy, they analyse and if it works for them, good. If not, nothing they lost.

It would be very nice of you to discuss theory or betting strategy with people here and I guess more people will respect you and might feel inclined to pay you the monthly fee if you stop those marketing stuff.

What you say?

Originally Posted by Bryan

I myself try to look for favorable playing table if I could. But, don't tell me you are a fan of 2Hi system or whatever system, because I don't even know what the hell are those and in order for me to find out, I need to pay $50 to you.

2Hi is when the system never bets more than 2 units. For instance FLD (repeats) with a progression of 1,1,2 is a 2hi system.

Right, and with net betting systems such as SAP your progs can go to 4 while still keeping your table bets at 2 Hi.

I have discussed betting strategy many times on this forum. I can't very well rewrite the forum on a daily basis for each new guy but in a nut shell my experience tells me that if you can't beat the game betting 5 or 6 Hi you aren't going to beat the game long run. These 15 and 21 hi systems or more that I keep seeing here are all eventually suicidal. Sure, they win a lot of shoes but that is not the object at least for me. The object is to win long term. Tens of thousands of shoes over 30 years, much of it playing full time, tells me that is more fact than opinion. I've seen too many lose their farms, restaurants, stores, and houses with such "can't lose" systems. Yet they seem to get rediscovered and reinvented every several years by new guys who are NOT students of the game.

Under the right circumstances I like net betting which I copyrighted 25 years ago. My free systems are net betting systems. Some of the systems I teach are net betting systems. But most public players do not know the right circumstances where net betting can be applied safely. Net betting lowers your avg bet size, and your total units bet, and your commission while increasing your Player Advantage and Your avg. units won. - UNDER the right low disparity conditions.

About half of my students play only my 2Hi systems that avg 5 to 7 units a shoe.

My personal favorite for both net betting and SS (single side betting) is U1D2 M2 capped at a highest table bet of 5 allowing a 6 or 7 high prog net betting. That means up 1 on a loss, down 2 on a win, always bet 2 after 1 win or lose. Your stop win is usually 20. Most of my students never get more aggressive than that. But I also teach U1D1M3 B2 for those rare exploit situations. Now you are going for 30 units or more.

I strongly believe that betting aggression should be commensurate with the ease of the shoe at hand. Let the shoe dictate how you bet. Just as I teach, let the shoe tell you how to play.

NEVER decide how you are going to play or bet before you get to the casino. Wait and see what you are up against. Otherwise you are merely gambling and that is sick in my opinion.

Yeah, yeah, I know that some members here mock net betting and shoe types. On the other hand these same guys WISH they had the same play record that most of my students have. Argue all you want. The bottom line is that my students win just as they have demonstated here and have been winning for years. What is the point of arguing? The FACTS have already been clearly demonstated time after time with trip report after trip report. Geez, they even watch us win and still complain. Why? Jealousy plain and simple is the only reason I can come up with. They simply can't do what we do on a regular basis. They know it, I know it and my students know it.

Some of my students came from this forum. They tell me they learn more in a week on my forum than they learned here in years.

I teach very practical ways of playing. We don't win much but we win consistently. Experienced players are very happy with 6-12 units a shoe consistently. The occassional 20 and 30 unit shoes just make it more fun. Not that we are there for fun.

BTW, I get plenty of respect from thousands of players in the know as well as from casino personnel. I recall the first time I ever set foot in Mississippi. As soon as I walked in the door a dealer ran up to me and said "E. Clifton Davis, welcome to Biloxi!" Yesterday, like most days, I got phone calls from Singapore, Australia, Canada, Vegas, Alabama and Atlantic City. I get about 100 emails a day and a dozen phone calls and a bunch of PM's.

I even get respect from many on THIS forum but certainly not all. There are 3 or 4 jealous souls but who cares. Nobody ever heard of them and they have no credentials. Most here have learned to ignore them. You can't please all the people all the time.

Oh and by "credentials" I'm not talking about college degrees. I got a wall full but those, by themseves, are meaningless. I'm talking about liftime play record, winning systems designed, game approaches developed, books published, seminars conducted, public play exhibitions won, you know, real and meaningful CREDENTIALS.

Oh, and I don't mean tourmaments either. I placed second in the million dollar World Championship of Baccarat. But that is completely meaningless. In tournaments everybody bets WAY over their head and the luckiest guy wins. Plain and simple but what does that prove? Floor Play, that's where its at!
Hmmm, same with foreplay!

Originally Posted by Plasia

2Hi is when the system never bets more than 2 units. For instance FLD (repeats) with a progression of 1,1,2 is a 2hi system.

Plasia, thanks. Actually, I already know what that means.

My main point is everyone know 2Hi is never bets more than 2 units. Ellis have mentioned a few times, but, the actually system behind the system, no one know.

Originally Posted by Ellis

BTW, I get plenty of respect from thousands of players in the know as well as from casino personnel. I recall the first time I ever set foot in Mississippi. As soon as I walked in the door a dealer ran up to me and said "E. Clifton Davis, welcome to Biloxi!" Yesterday, like most days, I got phone calls from Singapore, Australia, Canada, Vegas, Alabama and Atlantic City. I get about 100 emails a day and a dozen phone calls and a bunch of PM's.

Ellis, to be frank. I know of many people who get plenty of respect from casino personnel as well. They are just smiling behind these people back in a manners: coming to donate money to my bonus again

Joke aside, I am not going to dispute whatever you said because I don't have the time to get involved in argument and I am starting to see some singing your tune now.

I am resuming my weekly casino trip tomorrow and seeing money in my bank is better than doing all these.

I wish you all the best but I still stick to my main point: there is really no need to keep pushing your forum benefit over here. If it is really that good, people will eventually come to know of it somehow.

Well said Brian and you are right. I don't know why I bother with this forum at all. It's like a real bad habit.

Originally Posted by Bryan

Plasia, thanks. Actually, I already know what that means.

My main point is everyone know 2Hi is never bets more than 2 units. Ellis have mentioned a few times, but, the actually system behind the system, no one know.

Bryan, I teach many 2 Hi systems both Net and SS betting. Most of my systems that go more than 2 can also be bet 2 Hi. But it takes a pretty good system in the first place to make hay out of 2Hi betting. You are relying on betting the right side in the first place rather than making up for a lot of losses with a big 50/50 bet. That means that you must play to the shoe at hand. You are better off using skill, not guts, in my opinion.

There are simple 2 Hi systems available free on my free forum. But I don't go into enough detail about how to select tables for these systems. If you want to try this, I'll give you a hand with good table selection procedure. But I suspect you probably already have the experience to do a pretty good job on your own since you already know that table selection is important. Oh, and sorry I spelled your name wrong back there. That's funny, you don't look Irish.

Originally Posted by Ellis

Bryan, I teach many 2 Hi systems both Net and SS betting. Most of my systems that go more than 2 can also be bet 2 Hi. But it takes a pretty good system in the first place to make hay out of 2Hi betting. You are relying on betting the right side in the first place rather than making up for a lot of losses with a big 50/50 bet. That means that you must play to the shoe at hand. You are better off using skill, not guts, in my opinion.

There are simple 2 Hi systems available free on my free forum. But I don't go into enough detail about how to select tables for these systems. If you want to try this, I'll give you a hand with good table selection procedure. But I suspect you probably already have the experience to do a pretty good job on your own since you already know that table selection is important. Oh, and sorry I spelled your name wrong back there. That's funny, you don't look Irish.

Okay, will find some time to download your free system and play around. So, when you said I'll give you a hand with good table selection procedure, are you trying to tell me that you will give me 2 months comp?

I can tell you why people lose all the time. I'll also show you how to win...

Here are my results

From Zumma Tester Book 72 Days At the Baccarat Table…
Black is win… Red is loss.

My real play the average number won is around 6 units per shoe. 600 games below… 2761 units won for an average of 4.6 units per shoe.

With my procedure most shoes are played on player side. Commission is figured in the results for the few Banker games.

For all 600 games.

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