Give me good advice

[Archer]

You are hopeless Archer. My members don't post on this forum because they don't give a s--t about this forum. You and Garnabby ruined it. You won therefore you're lying.

If you see no value in winning trip reports, fine. I see no value in your posts whatsoever. But others might like to see winning trip reports and how it was done.

Learning any sport or any game or any activity there is ALWAYS value in learning how others did it unless you are already the best there is. Is that what you are saying? Are you the best there is Archer?

The avg. trip report on my forum generates about a hundred questions. I wonder why that is since there is no value in trip reports?

If you were learning to play golf would you avoid watching pros play? If the guy ahead of you put one 3' from the cup on a par 3 would you avoid asking what club he used?

Maybe you discovered a new way to teach. Maybe we should keep everything secret from the student and make sure he never gets any practical experience.

You are just jealous Archer, just like Garnabby. You two just can't stand it when anybody pays any attention to anyone else. You two have nothing to teach yourselves so instead you attack anyone who does. You two are pathetic three year olds. That's exactly how 3 year olds act. If they arn't the center of attention they cry and pout.

How does a report of my last trip (or anybody's) help anyone Ellis? Why don't you post your own winning trip reports? How many shoes have you played in the last year? Maybe ten? LOL, you are such a phoney!

Again, Ellis, why don't you ask all your PM's to post testimonials on this site? Again, how many members do you have? How many are just raving about you? Why aren't you living in LV running a Baccarat team making hundreds of thousands of dollars? Pfffff!

Dude, you are a business man selliing a service. Your advertising sucks! It has all the earmarks of snake oil. Where's the BEEF?

A

[Ellis]

Geez Archer, I'm 70 years old. I hope you don't mind if I don't play full time anymore. Did you ever? But I don't give a s--t if you do. That's got nothing to do with anything. I'm trying to tell people about what I learned over 30 years of play. Unlike you I did pretty well. Maybe they'd like to hear about it. I don't see why you have any qualms about that. This is, after all, Baccarat Forums.

Maybe I should keep everything secret as you do. I just don't grasp what good that does anyone. Why have a Baccarat Forum if you aren't going to talk about how to beat Baccarat?

Georgia played my way and won.
Plasia played my way and won.
Ad played my way and won.

That's just the few who happen to be on this forum. Pitifully few.

Nobody has played your way because nobody knows your way. You are reluctant to tell us. Garnabby has no way. He doesn't even play the game.

Perhaps you are right. Perhaps I should take my secrets to my grave which isn't far off. I just don't see what good that does anybody.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you and Garnabby have something better to offer. If so, you are certainly keeping it a good secret. My vote is put up or shut up.

Does anyone else see it Archer's way? If so, speak up. I have no qualms whatsoever in not being where I'm not wanted. Life is just too damn short. If you prefer Garnabby and Archer, so be it. How do you like what they have taught you so far?

[thegeorgiahurricane]

When I first started playing baccarat I guess you could say I was completely clueless. Through trial and error I became better, but not as good as I wanted to be. I was more of a gambler and not really a student of the game. Since deciding to study and practice and take the game seriously I have noticed an improvement in my play. I have to give credit where credit is due for that improvement and that credit is due to Ellis and John1234 primarily.

Look--Im not a member of Ellis' site and quite frankly doubt I would ever pay to be the member of any site or buy any system. That does not mean it is not worth the investment for some--it does not mean it is worth the investment for all. But Ellis is one of the few people who has posted any useful information on baccarat and John1234 has posted some interesting angles on the game.

I am not a basher and I have respect for everyone here--but honestly--Garnabby and Archer have posted very little useful information and seem mainly intersted in bashing Ellis. I dont know their personal histories with each other, but this seems like a waste of grown men's time.

Ellis is an instructor. He offers that instruction and profits from sharing his knowledge. Some people agree with him and some people don't. Plain and simple. How can anybody have a problem with that?

I wish there was more time spent on this forum discussing baccarat and less time wasted on petty disagreements. But, oh well, that is unlikely to change. So--to all of you students of the game--continue to wade through the posts--there is helpful information to be found here.

[edwardng]

try this system 63, 63 out of 64 you win

cut 64 papers and print the following on every paper:

PPPPPP PPPPPB PPPPBB PPPBBB PPPPBP PPPBPP PPBPPP PBPPPP PPBBPP PPPBBP PPBBBP PBBBPP PBPBBP PBPBPB PPBPPB PBPPBP PBPBBB PPBPBP PBBBPB PBPPBB BPBPBB BPPPBP BPBPPB BPBBBP BBPBBP BPBBPB BBBPBP BBBPPB BPBBPP BBBPBP BBBBPB BBBPBB BBBBBP BPBPBP BBBBPP BBBPPP PPBBBB PBBBBB PBBPBP BBPBPP PBPPBB PPBBPP PBBPPP BBBBBB PBBPBB PBBBBP PBPBPP BBPPPP PBBPPB PPPBPB PPBBPB BPPPPP BPBPPP BBBBPP BBBPPP BBPPBP BPPPBB BPPBPB BPPBPP BPPPPB BBPPBB BBPPPB BPBBBB BBPBBB pick up 1 piece and follow the sequence until strike, use 1,2,4,8,13,22 marty you will find that majority of the strikes will be between 1,2 & 3rd hands so if you play long term you will have an edge over the house.

let me make a fair statement, if you use flat betting unless you are surgically sure of the next hand, your bankroll will be eaten up by the casino's 5%, B6, because if your bankroll is subjected to just 10times win/lose senario, 5 times with banker strike will cost you 25% of your bankroll. work that out for 2 hours your are bankrupt!

the other thing is there is no formula for a sure win senario, what system you use, the casino also has one same formula against you, so you guys, you dun have to fight it out here, because there is no sure win formula.

[garnabby]

When I first started playing baccarat I guess you could say I was completely clueless. Through trial and error I became better, but not as good as I wanted to be. I was more of a gambler and not really a student of the game. Since deciding to study and practice and take the game seriously I have noticed an improvement in my play. I have to give credit where credit is due for that improvement and that credit is due to Ellis and John1234 primarily.

Appears you are still "clueless", because all the system-sellers (so far) have been obvious scammers... complete frauds w/o any real real credentials or results.

And you nor anyone else still "plugging" them have shown any real credentials or results, yourself. Doesn't matter how many of Ellis's shills appear, still not a single one of them has presented a single real credential, result, or fact about any of Ellis's claptrap (to be verified here). Just ever-more re-posting of the same old "just works", etc, nonsense. And you guys just keep "starting over", because that's all any of youze can do... while "your own" useless BTC falls by the wayside.

Look--Im not a member of Ellis' site and quite frankly doubt I would ever pay to be the member of any site or buy any system. That does not mean it is not worth the investment for some--it does not mean it is worth the investment for all. But Ellis is one of the few people who has posted any useful information on baccarat and John1234 has posted some interesting angles on the game.

What "useful information", as i've asked you and others many times before? Eg, which useful information has Ellis's admin ADulay posted? Which of AD's nonsense was even true? (But don't have to go that far back in this board to see all the horror-stories from those with all the actually-bad results regarding BTC.)

Yes, John1234 is another Ellis supporter... but only after he started selling his own useless system(s). Then he, like yourself and all the others "for Ellis", couldn't write enough "garbage" about myself... because i stood tall, and will continue to, about the scammers.

Scammers ban together when it suits them, like anyone else, i suppose. Even John, with his "confused" system, can't face up to the truth... or present a single (debatable) fact, etc, about it or himself.

I am not a basher and I have respect for everyone here--but honestly--Garnabby and Archer have posted very little useful information and seem mainly intersted in bashing Ellis. I dont know their personal histories with each other, but this seems like a waste of grown men's time.

"But honestly..." would make you quite another liar then. (And you're welcome for the invitation a while back to my own private group on this board, and to the other one at Welcome - Login , lol. It was easier to put it there all in one spot, to further it, and avoid the unrelated silly "matters" such as yours here.)

Ellis is an instructor. He offers that instruction and profits from sharing his knowledge. Some people agree with him and some people don't. Plain and simple. How can anybody have a problem with that?.

Nothing to do with being agreeable, nice, politic, respectful, or even honest. The problem is that it's all pure nonsense, lying... only for the purpose of scamming anyone and everyone gullible enough who doesn't look into it further.

Ellis imparts absolutely no baccarat- knowlegde, tools, etc, to even slightly better anyone's game; let alone any of the simple "plays" (to regain some of the house-edge), discovered only by a lot of actual trial-and-error casino-experience... of which it's becoming amusingly-apparent that Ellis, for one here, really has none.

So, BTC is only about paying to "learn" stuff of no value, (eventually) losing, quitting these boards ("in a huff", then returning for more of the same nonsense)... only to be started "in earnest" again, lol.

I wish there was more time spent on this forum discussing baccarat and less time wasted on petty disagreements. But, oh well, that is unlikely to change. So--to all of you students of the game--continue to wade through the posts--there is helpful information to be found here.

On the contrary, we're making excellent progress... unless you're a sucker like Ellis, or one of his equally-useless "supporters".

[thegeorgiahurricane]

Ill not lower myself to your rantings and ravings. I believe you proved my point.

[John1234]

I have to give credit where credit is due for that improvement and that credit is due to Ellis and John1234 primarily.

Thank you georgia but your success is more so a result of yourself. You have worked hard and you deserve to give yourself a lot of credit.

Yes, John1234 is another Ellis supporter... but only after he started selling his own useless system(s). Then he, like yourself and all the others "for Ellis", couldn't write enough "garbage" about myself... because i stood tall, and will continue to, about the scammers.

I support Ellis to a point. I have played his systems and I liked them. I didn't fall in love with them but I do have to admit they do work. I however do disagree with some of what he says but I try not to make that known out of respect. In your opinion he may not be owed any respect but I think that everybody is owed some respect, especially someone who has been on this planet so much longer than I have.

Scammers ban together when it suits them, like anyone else, i suppose. Even John, with his "confused" system, can't face up to the truth... or present a single (debatable) fact, etc, about it or himself.

I am not sure what you mean by confused system. You have not seen the systems, please do not claim to know anything about them. I think that you would actually be impressed with the creativity of the systems. They are built around a concept that I call trend catching with unique triggers.


Anyway, I will be at Harrahs AC for 2 days and I am going to play baccarat with what you refer to as my "useless" system. I used my last winnings to buy a new computer when my computer crashed.


I still have a lot of ideas..so please do not write me off. Yes I am selling a system but sales are not really that important to me anymore. We don't really advertise sniper baccarat..At first we did but now I just want to play. With casinos being built 5 mins down the road from me I will have easy access and playing will be my priority by July. I think that a lot of my ideas can hopefully at least spark something in someone else to come up with that successful system. I will never post the sniper systems but I will happily post ideas that i think have a lot of potential. As I have stated before, there are many ways to have success. I have been having success with 3 different flat bet mechanical systems. I know that there are more out there.

Instead of fighting, I think that we should all unite. Everybody on this forum has something to bring to the table. It is never too late to have peace.


And you may have noticed that I unbanned myself. I actually missed this forum.

anyway, I am off to the casino, I'll be back on Tuesday.

[garnabby]

Ill not lower myself to your rantings and ravings. I believe you proved my point.

Unless you can post up at least one university degree (as i have already done), you have still proved nothing except MY points.

Have you even $5000 (of your winnings) to post up???

Maybe youze could get together, "pass a hat"? If not, maybe Ellis and John still have their communal "piss-pot"???

[garnabby]

I am not sure what you mean by confused system. You have not seen the systems, please do not claim to know anything about them. I think that you would actually be impressed with the creativity of the systems. They are built around a concept that I call trend catching with unique triggers.

Anyway, I will be at Harrahs AC for 2 days and I am going to play baccarat with what you refer to as my "useless" system. I used my last winnings to buy a new computer when my computer crashed.

I referred to "John", not yourself (John1234).

Your system is a complete unknown... from a self-professed relatively-complete unknown.

We don't really advertise sniper baccarat..At first we did but now I just want to play. With casinos being built 5 mins down the road from me I will have easy access and playing will be my priority by July.

Should be anyone's LAST priority... their "clock is ticking", not ours.

I think that a lot of my ideas can hopefully at least spark something in someone else to come up with that successful system. I will never post the sniper systems but I will happily post ideas that i think have a lot of potential. As I have stated before, there are many ways to have success. I have been having success with 3 different flat bet mechanical systems. I know that there are more out there.

You haven't even begun to really get at anything.

And why should any of the rest of us give you another chance here? Esp'ly myself, who afforded you every chance (, even to "think positive", lol,) but got "bashed" by yourself at your first opportunity?

Instead of fighting, I think that we should all unite. Everybody on this forum has something to bring to the table. It is never too late to have peace.

What you call "drama" has been an excellent stage for anyone who wanted to take the time... to either abandon this game, or to really progress with it beyond the "red-necks" and their "sob stories".

Can be no more than what each of us makes of it, though in the end. (Furthermore, one who doesn't post a system/basic approach/etc, or otherwise become a part of this or that general community, to begin to build something more... is likely just kidding him/herself.)

And you may have noticed that I unbanned myself. I actually missed this forum.

Lol.

[Ellis]

In Garnabby world anyone who sells his wears at any price is a scammer.
That is his only criteria because he does not play and has no knowledge of the game. He has no real criteria to judge by so he simply includes everyone.

He likewise believes the game can't be beat so anyone who wins is a liar.

I think anyone with an once of sense can clearly see that Garnabby's criteria in both cases really sucks.

Yet that is the only criteria Garnabby uses to decide who to destroy.

He has no way to avoid throwing out the baby with the wash. Nor does he care.

It doesn't matter how many winning students I produce because in Garnabby world all winners are liars. Isn't that convenient. The perfect Catch 22.

Garnabby even came to Vegas to prove we lose. He watched 5 of us absolutely kill a shoe playing TB4L at a solid TB4L table. He watched me select the table and play it OUR way. Then he criticised us for playing "simple" TB4L. That's because Garnabby says there no such thing as a TB4L table. Isn't that also very convenient. But we proved otherwise winning 90% of the hands at a table we selected as a TB4L table.

Such displays mean nothing to Garnabby. The guy is so jealous it borders on insanity.

He has no idea who the scammers are. But that makes no difference to Garnabby. He promoted the odd even tie system. That system is a total scam started by a guy on MY forum who was kicked off of my forum for selling an obvious scam. That's the kind of guy Garnabby backs.

He speaks highly of card counting. Card counting is a casino promoted scam. You have never seen a card counting guru demonstrate his wears in a casino and you never will because he can't. I personally knew and played with the number one card counter of all time, Kenny Uston. Kenny quit the game and drank himself to death because he couldn't win. But those are the guys Garnabby backs.

Garnabby is a complete know nothing phony pure and simple. He's just trying to make himself a name at your expense. He has no idea of what he is talking about. He knows that but he simply doesn't care. ANYTHING to make a name.

[ADulay]

Guys,

Everybody stop. Take a deep breath and look at the big picture.

You're attempting to hold a reasonably intelligent conversation with a tantrum throwing, semi-adult person.

Look back at ANY previous conversation and read ANY of G's replies.

There is no way you will be able to continue a discussion with the guy.

I'll toss him a tidbit reply from time to time, but attempting a serious discussion?? Not lately.

"G" lives in his own world and if you don't see things his way, you are OUT! You will be lied to, misquoted and anything you post to prove anything you say will be convieniently forgotten.

Trust me on this. Look back at any random discussion and see where it leads to. It's simply incredible.

I have answered every single one of his odd questions and in the next reply all I hear is "ADulay never posted up anything".

Well, the solution is simple. Just converse among yourselves. Discuss baccarat play and ideas. Toss things into the ring.

When the "G" man jumps in, just ignore him, like you would any toddler who interfers with the adults.

Just look back in this thread and you'll realize the futility of it.

AD (I'm almost sorry to admit it. I'm still winning. The shame of it all.)

[Archer]

Garnabby can speak for himself but it is not right that Ellis makes points that are not true or that he can't back up.

In Garnabby world anyone who sells his wears at any price is a scammer.

Not really anybody, Ellis. I think he refers to you! Over generalizing to secure a point makes the point suspect.

He likewise believes the game can't be beat so anyone who wins is a liar.

Is that true? Hmmmm?

It doesn't matter how many winning students I produce because in Garnabby world all winners are liars. Isn't that convenient. The perfect Catch 22.

LOL. How many long term winners have YOU brought? They should be here helping you market your stuff with testimonial after testimonial. Out of how many, maybe 1000 students you get 3. Dude![/QUOTE]

Garnabby even came to Vegas to prove we lose. He watched 5 of us absolutely kill a shoe playing TB4L at a solid TB4L table. He watched me select the table and play it OUR way. Then he criticised us for playing "simple" TB4L. That's because Garnabby says there no such thing as a TB4L table. Isn't that also very convenient. But we proved otherwise winning 90% of the hands at a table we selected as a TB4L table.

Hmmm- could be wrong but I honestly don't think that was Garnabby. LOL, don't worry, it wasn't me. I do remember someone else owning up to that. I think I remember who but I shouldn't say.

He speaks highly of card counting. Card counting is a casino promoted scam.

This one idiotic statement should be enough for anyone to realize Ellis is the scammer and should make everything Ellis says suspect. One can adhere to counting or believe in it or not- that's fine but to say that the casinos promote it is. . . well, psychotic is the only word I can think of

You have never seen a card counting guru demonstrate his wears in a casino and you never will because he can't. I personally knew and played with the number one card counter of all time, Kenny Uston. Kenny quit the game and drank himself to death because he couldn't win. But those are the guys Garnabby backs.

Huh? Is Garnabby a BJ player now? I counted BJ for years and won money, was taught by a professional and know that ALL the pros know Ellis and think he is an idiot! But. . . I don't. In defense of Ellis' clumping theories and my use of them I am one that believes from my own experience that clumping is a tool that can be exploited but. . .NOT PREDICTED!!! It is something you guess at just like Ellis' Baccarat count methods, duh!

You see Ellis. If you were just a guy with some honest ideas selling subscriptions to a website that would be fine with me. Problem is that if you were just a guy selling some honest ideas nobody would pay, right? So you got to shovel it deep to get people in the door. You are like a barker at a carnival.

After all these years you still amaze me! Don't let 'em see ya sweat! I did like the recent one. You pulled out the "old man card" once again! Too old to sit at a Bacc table and play 10 shoes a week and make 10k a week. LOL, You are still killin' me LMAO.

Archer>>>----------------->

[edwardng]

hello friends! please do not quarrel, nobody, really, nobody can predict the next hand, so, it is no point grabbing each other's throat. the more we quarrel the casino will laugh at us....even those who claims they have the formula and is winning is not telling the truth....the truth is you lose in long term...if the trend goes with you...off course you will win if the trend keeps it course, but how often you get that? nobody wins when trend goes against you, not even the casino!!

[pitty1]

Many who should know better,think BAC can be won by soulless systems,rather than the blood and anguish of ones bankroll.Say edwardng do they have EZ bac tables out there?..no worry about the 5% on that kind of table.

[edwardng]

out here in macau, singapore, we have either 5% or B6, B6 is half payment on banker when banker wins on 6 points. casino needs the 5% and B6 otherwise they cannot sure win

[pitty1]

OH man..Macau!!! Bac heaven... B6...I'm crushed..Bet theres not a lot of WOOHOO on banker streaks lol.Say ur system u post ...can't say it can be a more random bet than that.Thanks for sharing..

[Ellis]

It's all guess work. That's gambling.

It's a question of how much you can educate your guess.

In BJ:

The counter educates his guess by knowing when the remaining cards are high in tens because he knows that tens are player favorable. That is why casinos moved the cut off card so far up.

The BTC clumper educates his guess much the same way by predicting the next round as high tens ratio or low by noting the tens dispersment in the shoe at hand. Its a more complex way of doing the same thing but far more accurate. He doesn't care where the cut off card is. Makes no difference.

The BTC clumper has his greatest advantage in random cards.

The counter has his least advantage in random cards because the count does't go anywhere. Yet, Basic Strategy works best in random cards.

I'm defining "random" here as an even dispersment of highs and lows.

In Baccarat:

The BTC Bac player gets his advantage by first defining the trend of the table, if any, and then defining the trend of the shoe, if any. When he has a trend he plays the best system for that trend. But again, his biggest advantage comes in trendless "random" shoes because such shoes are perfect for net betting. He sort of has the best of both worlds.

Our overall Bac shoe win rate at BTC is 83%. But our avg losing shoe is less than our avg winning shoe.

The big progression player often has a higher shoe win rate but when he loses, there goes the farm.

I've been trying my damnedness the last several years to break 83% while still maintaining a higher units won avg than our units lost avg. But this is extremely difficult to say the very least.

I do not believe in high bets. If you can't win with a high bet of 4 or 5 units, you aren't going to win overall. Been there, done that. Many of you guys are just getting there. You'll learn soon enough.

My 2 Hi players avg about 6 units a shoe. My 4-5 Hi players avg about 12. I've seen no other group or no other approach anywhere that even comes close to our avg at BTC. BTW, I personally believe that your betting aggression should be commensurate with the ease of the shoe at hand.

There are several guys from BTC on this forum who can vouch for everything I say, not that that should be be necessary. Guys that know me know I don't lie or even exaggerate. There's no point in it. GUYS THAT KNOW ME!

That's what I teach. The small tuition allows me to teach full time just as it does with all professional teachers. They paid me when I taught Math. Why should Baccarat be different? It's just a form of Calculus.

If that is scamming then I'm proud to be a scammer. At least some of you are learning something. Why anyone would be simple minded enough to complain about that is totally beyond my comprehension.

But I find some comfort in the fact that half the people in the world are below avg intelligence. BTW, I think Garnabby is in the upper half. He just has his own strange agenda.

[Ellis]

Archer, you won therefore you quit. Yeah, right.

[Archer]

Archer, you won therefore you quit. Yeah, right.

Pay attention old dude. I said I quit after my play was "restricted" at Foxwoods and the game is just too stressful, time consuming, and difficult to play with any regularity.

Plus, Foxwoods took away all my "points" which, as some may know, can be valuable at that casino since they have a lot of stores. I got golf clubs, stereos, clothes, etc. The gaming people told me that if I didn't like their decision I could hire an attorney and go to their Indian court. LOL No, I didn't bother.

A

I do still play on occasion in LV and a little in MoSun for low stakes as I have also stated,

[Ellis]

OK Archer, fine.

[Ellis]

I take Archer's word for this. I also give credit where credit is due. Most here have no idea of what a monumental feat Archer has accomplished.

Most buyers of my BJ Books NBJ and WCB were card counters. So I knew many counters first hand. Litterally thousands. The only other counter I ever encountered who won was Seeker. But Seeker was strictly a back counter in AC and CT. Back counting involved standing "back" from the table keeping count and only entering the game when and if a high plus count developed. Seeker eeked out a reasonable living this way until the casinos countered with the "no midshoe" entry rule. This rule also spoiled our own "no rent first base" system which was the cause of the no midshoe entry rule.

I also know what a feat this was from my own counting experience. I was the fastest counter I ever knew or heard of. I could count down a deck of cards in 13 seconds flat and tell you whether the card you removed was Hi, Lo or Neutral. The avg is about 50 seconds. I also knew far more about the mathematics of the count than most counters. Yet I lost $40,000 over 3 months. That's more like $400,000 in today's dollars. I went right back to NBJ and got all my money back inside a month.

I knew ALL of the many card counting teachers. But I never knew of a single one to ever actually play in a real casino. A few were close friends of mine but ALWAYS turned down my invitation to play.

Every single counter I knew was on the wrong side of the "Standard Deviation". That was the Counting instructor's excuse for his losing players and a completely bastardized use of that great mathematical principle.

I challenged ALL card counting instuctors to produce ONE SINGLE year end winner bottom line after expenses. They could not do so. There were NONE.

I challenged any card counter to play me. 5 took me up and all 5 lost while I won $10,000 in the same game playing NBJ.

Card Counting books are frought with many, many mathematical errors most that anyone can see. But they don't because they want so much for it to win that they simply overlook very obvious mathematical errors that I could spend page after page listing.

Card Counting worked in single deck no cut off card BJ. No Question. But that game hasn't been dealt in 40 years. Card Counting is WHY it hasn't been dealt.

So I think any reasonable person can see exactly why TODAY I call Card Counting a complete scam. It is a scam that is Casino perpetuated. They sell Card Counting books right in the casino. They hand out Basic Strategy cards right in the casino. They allow Card Counting siminars right in the casino. They advertize it in casino sponsored films. They keep the lie alive any and every way they can conceive making the public THINK it wins. Casinos LOVE Card Counters.

Call any major casino. Tell them you are the best and fastest Card Counter in the world and you'll put 100 grand cash in their cage. They aren't the least bit afraid of you. They'll send a plane for you.

I know hundreds of players barred from casinos. Most were barred for behavior reasons esp arguing. A few for winning. But NONE for Card Counting. That is a casino perpetuated myth. Given Archer's propensity for arguing.........

But I think he's smart enough to avoid that in a casino. My hat's off to Archer. He is ONE in thousands. But please excuse me if I happen to believe that his winning was more due to his NBJ knowledge rather than his Card Counting knowledge. Now THAT, I can believe.

[Ellis]

Not to mention names but I recall the most prolific Counting instructor of Archer's era. He had a HUGE forum and MANY followers. NO ONE EVER actually saw him play. But sure enough the day came when one of his mesmerized deciples complained that he was following every rule taught but remained strictly on the wrong side of the Standard Deviation and had yet to win a single shoe. Nonplussed and after many questions The Instructor finally determined the "cause". "You are playing a pair of 4's wrong!"

Think about that! You get a pair of 4's dealt to you what, maybe once in two days of full time play. Even then, how you play them makes no difference. Hit or split, your odds are about the same - Not good BTW. I decided then and there: this guy is nothing but a complete scammer. A very clever insightful scammer but a scammer nonetheless. He was the best they had. Best Counting instructor? Best scammer? Take your pick.

I'm defining a true scammer here. Garnabby pay attention because you wouldn't know one if he fell out of the sky on your head. But, for sure, keep pointing them out to us.

[Ellis]

I frequently get charged by one of the members here for making "anecdotal references".

What exactly does that mean? It means referencing actual events. That's what you do when you have actual experience. The only other choice is to reference hypothetical events. That's what you do when you lack actual experience. Which would you prefer?

[Archer]

I am not a basher and I have respect for everyone here--but honestly--Garnabby and Archer have posted very little useful information and seem mainly intersted in bashing Ellis. I dont know their personal histories with each other, but this seems like a waste of grown men's time.

I can't speak for Garnabby but no, I am not in interested in "bashing" Ellis. My main interest is to "expose" Ellis for what he is. That should be obvious to most here already.

If you think Ellis' sales pitches are useful information that is fine. I find it laughable!

A

[Archer]

I'll just post the shoes and the stats and we'll see how I go then

Hi Plasia, I know you meant well by offering to post shoes which you have not done. No one should be afraid to post shoes. No one has gotten bashed for doing so that I have seen. The issue is about their worth.

But Ellis has stated that to play shoes without selecting tables is, and I quote, "sick." Black Orchid is an online site?

I am really sorry for being so logical. I can't help it. It is difficult for me to understand how Ellis can on one hand use winning shoes from any player as a testimonial for his methods and then turn around and say that it is sick to play without table selection. How can one select a table online?

As usual Ellis has it both ways. My guess is that Ellis contacted you and told you not to post your shoes?

Archer

[Archer]

I frequently get charged by one of the members here for making "anecdotal references".

What exactly does that mean? It means referencing actual events. That's what you do when you have actual experience. The only other choice is to reference hypothetical events. That's what you do when you lack actual experience. Which would you prefer?

Nice spin on that! Take that logic one step further and you get: therefore, anecdotal references have scientific value regardless how how sparse they are.

I won 84 units in 6 shoes at Tunica. That is an actual event. What is the value of that. Does it mean that the purely mechanical way I played will be an overall long term winner? OMG - must be the holy grail!

Ellis, how many private members do you have?

Where are all the dozens or hundreds of anecdotal reports that would make people stand up and pay attention?

A

[Archer]

Not to mention names but I recall the most prolific Counting instructor of Archer's era. He had a HUGE forum and MANY followers. NO ONE EVER actually saw him play. But sure enough the day came when one of his mesmerized deciples complained that he was following every rule taught but remained strictly on the wrong side of the Standard Deviation and had yet to win a single shoe. Nonplussed and after many questions The Instructor finally determined the "cause". "You are playing a pair of 4's wrong!"

Think about that! You get a pair of 4's dealt to you what, maybe once in two days of full time play. Even then, how you play them makes no difference. Hit or split, your odds are about the same - Not good BTW. I decided then and there: this guy is nothing but a complete scammer. A very clever insightful scammer but a scammer nonetheless. He was the best they had. Best Counting instructor? Best scammer? Take your pick.

I'm defining a true scammer here. Garnabby pay attention because you wouldn't know one if he fell out of the sky on your head. But, for sure, keep pointing them out to us.

Dude, you are getting old. That post gives me real concern. Counting instructor? counting books? Archers era? Best counting instructor ever? Weird!

I suggest you get back to Baccarat.

A