Thread: A cautionary tale

We are all advantage players.
That is legal, smart play.

Some of us go into the grey areas, like sneak a look at the dealers hole card, collusion with a team. I am okay with that until someone tells me it is illegal.

Then there is going over the line. When the dealers know you are a regular, and a sharp player, or with a team, they get tempted to join you,
in there role as dealer. Now you are commiting a crime.

Several months ago in Atlantic City, I was alone at the minibac table, and a dealer, lets call him Bill, starts to get a little bit chatty. He was a big
jolly sort, caucasion dealer. Tells me this is only a part time job for him.
I didn't ask him a thing , he just started to volunteer this.
He says, want to guess what I do for a day job.
OK tell me. "I am a magician". "Want to see a trick"
I say "your not going to pull a rabitt out of your ass are you".
He says no, but I can guess what the next card out of the shoe is going to be". "Lets see, how about a nine." He then deals out a nine as the first card for the player.

"How did you like that. Pretty good information right. I can guess the
next card out of the shoe all day". Ok Bill I get it. And You and I could be partners. He nods his head.

I pick my partners carefully. I want them to be smart. This guy is
making a proposition right at the table with the surveillance cameras rolling. I think he is trying to set me up. Forget it pal, I get up and leave.

This week I was back at that casino. One of the dealers was lamenting that some people were losing their jobs. I said " really, I haven't seen Bill, the big guy around, was he fired. She leans close and says "you didn't hear about it did you. No, what. Well, they have been cutting back on security and it is not safe around here. Bill got jumped in the parking lot.
Worked over pretty good by some boys from the hood. Right in the employee parking lot. I ask, "will he be alright? Is he coming back?
Answer, No, seems he was severly brain damaged.

Yea, security isn't so good around here.

Hmmm, a heck of a story. A.C is a very rough place. There are some extremely talented dealers. Some may be too talented for their own good. That makes a lot more sense. Why would the rollers be scouting the EMPLOYEE parking lot? There's no money in the employee parking lot.

maybe the rollers work for the casino--that would a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Profbac

We are all advantage players.
That is legal, smart play.

Some of us go into the grey areas, like sneak a look at the dealers hole card, collusion with a team. I am okay with that until someone tells me it is illegal.

Then there is going over the line. When the dealers know you are a regular, and a sharp player, or with a team, they get tempted to join you,
in there role as dealer. Now you are commiting a crime.

Several months ago in Atlantic City, I was alone at the minibac table, and a dealer, lets call him Bill, starts to get a little bit chatty. He was a big
jolly sort, caucasion dealer. Tells me this is only a part time job for him.
I didn't ask him a thing , he just started to volunteer this.
He says, want to guess what I do for a day job.
OK tell me. "I am a magician". "Want to see a trick"
I say "your not going to pull a rabitt out of your ass are you".
He says no, but I can guess what the next card out of the shoe is going to be". "Lets see, how about a nine." He then deals out a nine as the first card for the player.

"How did you like that. Pretty good information right. I can guess the
next card out of the shoe all day". Ok Bill I get it. And You and I could be partners. He nods his head.

I pick my partners carefully. I want them to be smart. This guy is
making a proposition right at the table with the surveillance cameras rolling. I think he is trying to set me up. Forget it pal, I get up and leave.

This week I was back at that casino. One of the dealers was lamenting that some people were losing their jobs. I said " really, I haven't seen Bill, the big guy around, was he fired. She leans close and says "you didn't hear about it did you. No, what. Well, they have been cutting back on security and it is not safe around here. Bill got jumped in the parking lot.
Worked over pretty good by some boys from the hood. Right in the employee parking lot. I ask, "will he be alright? Is he coming back?
Answer, No, seems he was severly brain damaged.

Yea, security isn't so good around here.

"I think he is trying to set me up." ___Him, or the casino? For which purpose, as he would be setting-up also himself/the casino?

"I can guess what the next card out of the shoe... ." ___Dealers say stuff like that a lot, hence often being right... hardly a crime to take such "advice". Also, i've heard of being able to apply an oily wax to the back of some cards to keep those as the next cards in a (standard) shoe, ready at will... but that would be a casino-setup. Beyond that, unless you go to "Savant's" (Sonny, from bj-info?) house, in which he claims everything is possible, lol, the number of ways for anyone to cheat at baccarat seems to myself to remain limited (to a few others). There are strict dealer-procedures to prevent the card-mechanics necessary for the sleight-of-hand ones. Furthermore, "only one player/dealer at the table" seems to be forgetting about the then ever-more "omni-present" pit/cameras... for that specific "maneuver" to have ever happened successfully for long.

"She leans close and says "you didn't hear about it did you. No, what. Well, they have been cutting back on security and it is not safe around here." ___I find that hard to believe. Once a dealer told me about some regulars i noticed missing, that they were in jail on drug-related charges. But they are legally-sworn to not disclose specific casino-related operations/matters. And the pit-guys will tell you even less... with the most i ever heard one say to a player who threatened him, "We know where you live too." Oh, and "for what it's worth", i once overheard the guy sitting beside me negotiating sex with one of the waitressess.

"I pick my partners carefully." ___ I "work alone", allowing for anyone in the casino who wants to also "work alone" with me... collusion not included, i'm not that interested in making enemies, or other problems for myself down such an ever-narrowing path. Trouble is a lot easier to get into than out of.

"... he was severly brain damaged." But likely very well-off after suing his employer's insurance company for compensation.

"When the dealers know you are a regular, and a sharp player, or with a team, they get tempted to join you,
in there role as dealer." ___Only once, in 15 years of semi-regular baccarat-play, and 5 years of regular bj-play, have i witnessed the casino-cops interrupt a supposed team (at an adjacent baccarat-table)... were they laundering money, cheating, tracking the cards? The bulk of the audible argument concerned not being allowed to [cash out/remove their chips], and leave. The players at my table talked for a while about it, and the next day... all, and not a word more, the dealer said was, "You guys watch too much tv."

Now Im a low roller at best--but let me relate a true story to you just for shooting the breeze sake. I want to what you guys think. I was at the Hard Rock in Biloxi and I was having a good night. There were a couple of high rollers at the table who were taking notice of my play. The Asian high roller asked if I wanted to grab a bite to eat and I took him up on the offer. He wanted to know if I could miss four or less in a row on a consistent basis. I told him the truth which was if they are four bets that I choose to bet that I rarely miss four in a row. He then proceeded to offer to bankroll me for $50,000.

Now--that was a shock. I turned it down because my fear instinct kicked in. What if I lost his 50k? Would I end up "swimming with the fishes"? I told him I could not do it for religious reasons. HAHAAHAA. You know--neither a lender nor borrower be!! I think I blew his mind.Anyway. Sorry Profbac if I jumped in your post, but your little post brought that to mind.

Garnaby, you really think that there are only a limited number of ways that the game could be cheated, manipulated etc.
How would you know?
Have you been in security or surveilance?

Just do a google search on baccarat scams, cheating etc.

You can't believe that a dealer would talk to a customer about these things.
Lets see, a middle aged female dealer sees a regular player at the $100 minimum table, playing with a large stack of chips, that player also happens to be a good tipper, nicely dressed and well spoken.
You can't imagine the conversation.
I think this may be out of your realm of life experience.

Georgiahurrican:

Your instincts are good.

Over the last several years I have gotten into conversations with many high rollers. Most of them are not exactly Fortune 500 executives.
A lot of that money is dirty, and a lot of the people sitting in the high limit room would have your legs broken over $50k.

I do have just a couple of experiences af being approached to partner up with serious money players. But I'll save that for another time, or PM.
Garnaby is onto the thread and probably needs to get in the last word.

I don't know how this money laundering thing works but I see a lot of it going on where I play. One money person who never comes to the floor that I can see bankrolling about 6 players who can't play for beans from what I can see. They lose ten grand and 15 minutes they are back with another ten grand. I just don't see what good it does to play hot money if you lose most of it. And why is it no longer hot? And why are they always Asian? Obviously, I have little experience or connections in that world. Does it have to do with serial numbers or what? I just don't get it. Anybody know how this works?

Originally Posted by Profbac

Garnaby, you really think that there are only a limited number of ways that the game could be cheated, manipulated etc.
How would you know?
Have you been in security or surveilance?

Just do a google search on baccarat scams, cheating etc.

You can't believe that a dealer would talk to a customer about these things.
Lets see, a middle aged female dealer sees a regular player at the $100 minimum table, playing with a large stack of chips, that player also happens to be a good tipper, nicely dressed and well spoken.
You can't imagine the conversation.
I think this may be out of your realm of life experience.

Don't have to google anything, there're already some items about that on this board.

How would i know? Your "story" has too many "twists and turns" to be believed w/o any sort of evidence, even on your own part.

Anyway, why so defensive/offensive... let's keep the focus on the post which began this thread.

Originally Posted by thegeorgiahurricane

Now Im a low roller at best--but let me relate a true story to you just for shooting the breeze sake. I want to what you guys think. I was at the Hard Rock in Biloxi and I was having a good night. There were a couple of high rollers at the table who were taking notice of my play. The Asian high roller asked if I wanted to grab a bite to eat and I took him up on the offer. He wanted to know if I could miss four or less in a row on a consistent basis. I told him the truth which was if they are four bets that I choose to bet that I rarely miss four in a row. He then proceeded to offer to bankroll me for $50,000.

Sounds more believable, at least no contradictions in it.

First, no one is going to be able to miss four in a row a lot, because then a lot of money could be made by turning that system around.

Second, if i offered to bet your $50,000 on the player-bet, while putting up $6,250 of my own money on the tie-bet, then one of us would win 54 to 55% of the time, and could pay the other $6,250 for his troubles... would you oblige me?

Originally Posted by garnabby

Don't have to google anything, there're already some items about that on this board.

How would i know? Your "story" has too many "twists and turns" to be believed w/o any sort of evidence, even on your own part.

Anyway, why so defensive/offensive... let's keep the focus on the post which began this thread.

I began the thread,
I took offense to you questioning the truthfulness of my story.
I am not selling anything here, just passing along some advice.
If it had too many twists and turns for you, I really have to wonder about you comprehnsion ability.
You really expect us to believe that you have a grasp of complex gaming theory, mathematics etc. I think the burden of proof is on you .

Originally Posted by Ellis

I don't know how this money laundering thing works but I see a lot of it going on where I play. One money person who never comes to the floor that I can see bankrolling about 6 players who can't play for beans from what I can see. They lose ten grand and 15 minutes they are back with another ten grand. I just don't see what good it does to play hot money if you lose most of it. And why is it no longer hot? And why are they always Asian? Obviously, I have little experience or connections in that world. Does it have to do with serial numbers or what? I just don't get it. Anybody know how this works?

They seek out a bunch of persons w/o criminal records, then provide each with say 5% of the money to be laundered... so as not to "ring any alarm-bells" with the gambling-enforcement officers (in every casino). A few will win big and cash out with "clean cash" (, as well as their cut)... to spend it as the supplier sees fit, etc.

Casinos are required to report unusually-large influxes of cash; as well as some various amounts outgoing, in case eg, you're "pulled over, and searched" on the way home, and the officer(s) want an explanation for the money.

Originally Posted by Profbac

You really expect us to believe that you have a grasp of complex gaming theory, mathematics etc. I think the burden of proof is on you .

Lol. I still don't know what the gist/details of your own "story" were. Perhaps that you're claiming all of the above, and more... by vagaries and the usual AP-cryptologies?

Sexy you.

Garnaby,

It took you three days to come up with this brilliant response.
Keep working on your tit for tat strategy, that has us all very impressed.

Originally Posted by Profbac

Garnaby,

It took you three days to come up with this brilliant response.
Keep working on your tit for tat strategy, that has us all very impressed.

Couldn't care less about the "all" to whom you refer.

I post for my own enjoyment, not as some sort of "job" like yourself... when i get around to a post, i reply.

And it really is fun cornering those sexy-AP guys, when they can no longer delete their own posts, or mine.

Originally Posted by Ellis

I don't know how this money laundering thing works but I see a lot of it going on where I play. One money person who never comes to the floor that I can see bankrolling about 6 players who can't play for beans from what I can see. They lose ten grand and 15 minutes they are back with another ten grand. I just don't see what good it does to play hot money if you lose most of it. And why is it no longer hot? And why are they always Asian? Obviously, I have little experience or connections in that world. Does it have to do with serial numbers or what? I just don't get it. Anybody know how this works?

Over the years I have had the opportunity to speak with a lot of Asian players. Since I am one of the few Caucasians out of 100's I tend to be a "known" quantity. Thus I have had lots of conversations with those who have seen me year after year. Some even motion to me and invite me to their table. I really don't have a clue why. I think they are just being friendly.

I was curious about the same thing as Ellis mentions. First we have to understand that these people do not pay taxes, many are illegal and work with large families and extended families. Furthermore all they do is work 6 days a week - they don't go anywhere or spend any money. They don't have cars, homes, insurance, etc. In that sense it is all "hot" money! They take care of thier own.

Many Asian players tend to pool their money. They have their own little banking system and divide up the profits and losses. So the guy who just won real big or loses real big very likely has a bunch of other people he is responsible for. In this manner the variance of the game is spread out amongst a lot of people. Smart.

I've seen players lose thousands at the mini-bacc table - go over to the big bac table and someone hands them a bunch of chips - they go back to the mini table! They go back up and win 10 k again. They are probably breaking even. LOL.

It shouldn't be such a surprise. The vig is small enough whereas lots of players can be up lots of money for a long time.

A

Interesting...I've heard quite a few similar stories over here in Asia as well.