Open Challenge to Ellis (Part 2)

[Ellis]

Good posts Archer and thanks for reminding me. See ya. OH, Just one thing before I go: Sure highs can follow highs and lows can follow lows more than 50/50 randomly. But they can't do it all night long randomly. Oh, and once it goes over 150 looseleaf pages, which is 400 book pages, I call it a book. That and the fact that those books are constructed like books rather than manuals. They are complete with prefaces, prologs, Tables of contents, etc. But players prefer the looseleaf format because it leaves the left page blank for notes. Also it makes it easier to copy tables and illustrations, etc. But thanks for being civil.

[Archer]

Good posts Archer and thanks for reminding me. See ya. OH, Just one thing before I go: Sure highs can follow highs and lows can follow lows more than 50/50 randomly. But they can't do it all night long randomly. Oh, and once it goes over 150 looseleaf pages, which is 400 book pages, I call it a book. That and the fact that those books are constructed like books rather than manuals. They are complete with prefaces, prologs, Tables of contents, etc. But players prefer the looseleaf format because it leaves the left page blank for notes. Also it makes it easier to copy tables and illustrations, etc. But thanks for being civil.

Yeah, yeah, where are you going? Before you go will you please post the cost for your subscriptions - thanks.

A

[Ellis]

You were right. The Baccarat subscription is $50 a month. That gives a member complete access.

[garnabby]

Ah, the weekend's here again!

Unless i've missed something in from the last two days, i don't see another reply from Seven... was hoping he would have asked me, "But the casino's aren't going to tell the players which "shuffle" they're using when, by dealing out ONLY the low cards ALL THE TIME... so that we would know to just keep drawing to a holding 17 or higher."

To which i would have now responded, "That's absolutely true!"

==> That's why the cards-situation would then be randomized after all, albeit the hard way, were all that casino-effort put into PROPERLY disguising/switching what they're doing to avoid detection and then downfall. Or about cheating only some specific professional player, who would likey know the difference anyway, by some means not nearly so simplistic as one of Ellis'. No need to "cull" the discards, let alone out in the open... but only to remember which "target" cards are where, and to deal out those at will to specific players... much cleaner, and much harder to spot.

==> That's why professional players spend at least a day or two "casing the joints" beforehand, for some actual indicators regarding comps/lodgings/players/rules/equipment/etc. How often has there been a round of a bj-shoe in which no ten-value cards fell, and not anyone exclaimed, "My, where are all the high cards... no one "hit" their hands on the next rd." Not often.

==>That's why just about every casino now uses ASM's, or CSM's... leaving the 2-deck hand-shuffled games as a $2-novelty for the tourists. I mean, were the casinos so easily able to cheat in all those ways, and others... why would they have given up the hand-shuffling for devices which "remove just about all doubt"? (Slots-a-lot had one when they were around; SilverCity had one too; as did the Sportsman's Casino, a joint so "small", the owner used to breathe down the (one?) dealer's back sweating out each $2-wager... played there eons ago, whenever walking nearby, with a coupon for a "free ace" on the first deal.)

==> That's why no casino cheats like that, against everyone, easily spotted, and totally out in the open... too much to conceal to even be a consideration, let alone the tiny benefits if/when properly meted out. The same with the remaining ELLIS TALK... simplistic-but-haughty nonsense designed only to "impress" the desperate and paranoid, and discourage the lazy from thinking at all.

==> That's why Ellis doesn't talk about cheating specific players at will, which he, himself, can neither detect nor counter. He MAKES UP ways (the casino's are supposedly cheating) for which he then claims only he can detect and create the counter-strategies. Some of those are just plain silly, like a dealer trying to deal out "enough low cards but not too many", and by the awkward methods which no sleight-of-hand artist would ever employ anywhere. (By the time a lack of high cards is no longer plainly-noticeable, precious little has changed anyway.) Some are just plain impossible/invisible, like how long after the first 10 seconds in the ASM/CSM makes any difference to changing or not the dominance/running of the previous shoe's outcomes. (Just dealing out the next shoe, alternating cards to player and banker -holdings, completely destroys those statistics of the previous shoe.) But most are only made up, w/o any attempt at an explanation... "Those dirty people in AC, can't trust any of them(... but don't worry, they can't cheat you except by the silly ways make up by myself)."

==> Yet Ellis keeps going back for more, and selling off more "junk"? What's the use... why not just "bet against the table" at baccarat (, or quit bj all together), and skip the flip-flop second guessing of what the casinos are "going to do" next. At least employ a less- simplistic and static system, MM, etc?

[gerard711]

Hey Garnabby, you have totally lost the plot.

From somebody who claims can give a signature for a 25,000 advance at any casino, does not make posts full of such dribble.

You need to spend more time on with your partner, leave the computer alone. It obviously hasn't been good for you (Baccarat), and things probably won't change. It probably hasn't been good for a few people on this board, but they aren't making nonsensical threads / posts that you do. You are venting all your anger of your loss at Ellis, handle it like a man, not a spoilt child. Nobody ever forced anybody to gamble, failing that seek help.

While I am not fan of sellers, but what others do with their money is not my business. I have learn over time, if I want to fight some moral crusade, I'm sure I could find more interesting things to expose than people trying to sell fake gambling systems. Wake up and open your eyes kid, most of the world is corrupt, Canadian fake lottery scams, email & phone scams, sales men, all the way up to governments.

Sellers will be around long after you have gone, it's not worth the energy, stupid people will always exist, but that's their business. Going by the amount of time and effort you put into these rants, you only paint a picture of somebody hurting, not somebody who can give a signature for 25k.

Open you eyes look at the response, you are coming across as the biggest fool on this board. You haven't exactly ever posted anything worthwhile regarding the game, you haven't posted anything of interest to players of the game and you most probably don't play much.

Why not put your efforts into seeking employment or improving your employment prospects before it's too late. Life can’t be this mundane for you. Quit playing the retarded policeman of the board, you have your “closest” to consider, and there is also GA, I'm sure they meet at your location, you can't be "that far gone"?

What a great post!!!!!!

[Profbac]

Thank you John.
Maybe we can get this site back to the players who are trying to
develope an intelligent approach to this game.

[kolokotronis]

Gambling System sellers that try too hard to sell U, really don't have anything of substance to offer. The new and naive will fall for the "pitch" if its slick enough, and i was once in that group back in the late 80's because if you have interest in something, you have to start somewhere. When i stumbled upon some of Ellis' work back in the mid 90's, my game took on a more intelligent, conservative, and method type of approach. Today i can say, my approach is 50% Ellis and 50% of my own development. Why do i bring any of this up? Maybe to provide a break from some of the conflict on this site? Maybe to credit someone? Or simply, from experience to say the game's vig is pretty much irrelevent?
Yes, to all you "young" guys out there, the game gets beat everytime i sit down, and have pit crews gathering to see what i'm doing. A good system of an approach is hard to teach sometimes, and i credit Ellis for even trying to get through to some of the knuckleheads out there.

Sorry Garn, i wish to be neutral, but i side with Ellis due to real life positive experience.

[Archer]

[QUOTE=John;18575]Hey Garnabby, you have totally lost the plot. From somebody who claims can give a signature for a 25,000 advance at any casino, does not make posts full of such dribble.[QUOTE]

I didn't think it was dribble and thought he actually stuck with the plot! Garnabby made good sophist arguments as to why Ellis' claims that casinos rig the games or manipulate the cards in the shoe are implausible.

Are you John, Profbac, Kolok, and gerard agreeing with Ellis that the dealers and casinos actually control the outcome of Baccarat shoes at will? That is what I thought the post was about.

Archer

[gerard711]

Archer

I was just agreeing with John about all the crap that goes on here

[Ellis]

[quote=Archer;18587]

Are you John, Profbac, Kolok, and gerard agreeing with Ellis that the dealers and casinos actually control the outcome of Baccarat shoes at will? That is what I thought the post was about.
Archer

Archer, as you know perfectly well, all I'm saying is that many Baccarat games are biased and you are far better off to find the most biased game in the casino and play it rather than sit in any empty chair and play a purely mechanical system because ALL purely mechanical systems that you play the same way regardless of what the shoe does are break even systems. I've often said here that if I can't find a bias I don't play. (Its a waste of time!) I'm not there for fun!

HOW THE CARDS GOT BIASED IS TOTALLY IMMATERIAL!!!

You counted cards for many years in BJ. What exactly do you think you were counting? You were counting the STRENGTH of a BIAS. You were counting the plurality of tens in the remaining cards and HOPING that plurality was on the right side of the cut off card. You were counting that bias BECAUSE it is the only bias that does you any good in BJ - as far as you know. Whats more, you changed your card play according to the strength of that bias. Exactly what I do in Bac!

While in BJ, there is only one bias that YOU know of, in Baccarat there are many. A plurality of tens in Baccarat is MEANINGLESS but other biases are extremely meaningful such as opposites vs repeats or TB4L vs OTB4L or even B vs P. And when there is no disparity THAT is the bias and net bet will beat them. No, they don't always last but they USUALLY do. They aren't always there but they usually are.

What is the first and only question a new player asks when he sits down to your Bac table in the middle of a game? IS IT CHOPPY OR STREAKY? Ever heard that question before? If not then you don't have enough experience to be making ANY comment here. The Asians say it a little different: CHOP CHOP? Ever heard that before? Well thats just ONE bias.

Bac cards are shuffled the same way and use the same ASMs as BJ cards. Yet, you are saying that BJ cards are biased and Bac cards aren't. That's pretty darn lame. Maybe not the same way but they are sure as hell biased in ways that count!

The proof is in the pudding. I have plenty of winning players playing my way. They didn't suddenly become liars as Garnabby proposes. Hell, Garnabby has watched us absolutely kill a highly biased game, in person. THAT is how we play. We didn't suddenly start losing as soon as Garnabby left.

I have many very consistent winning players that play MY WAY. Very few ever leave my forum. Many have been with me 20 years or more. Here you've got a whole new crop every month. Most see a bunch of BS and leave. The rest seem to be crying in their beer. As far as I've ever seen you have only two winning players here. And guess what. They BOTH play MY WAY. And I'm not even counting AD who learned my way and is now $25,000 UP! EVERYBODY adds their own nuances. I encourage them to. It's the approach that counts.

I know you know all this. But for some strange reason you have an axe to grind. It's very obvious and every one here, longer than a month, knows it. I don't choose to argue with you two anymore. It's a complete waste of time for me AND for EVERYONE.

I'll be at beatthecasino.com There I can SHOW you how to win. Or, you could stay here and get Garnabby or Archer to show you. YEAH, RIGHT!

[Archer]

[quote=Ellis;18597]

Archer, as you know perfectly well, all I'm saying is that many Baccarat games are biased and you are far better off to find the most biased game in the casino and play it rather than sit in any empty chair and play a purely mechanical system because ALL purely mechanical systems that you play the same way regardless of what the shoe does are break even systems. I've often said here that if I can't find a bias I don't play. (Its a waste of time)

How the cards got biased is totally immaterial!

You counted cards for many years in BJ. What exactly do you think you were counting? You were counting the STRENGTH of a BIAS. You were counting the plurality of tens in the remaining cards and HOPING that plurality was on the right side of the cut off card. You were counting that bias BECAUSE it is the only bias that does you any good in BJ - as far as you know. Whats more, you changed your card play according to the strength of that bias. Exactly what I do in Bac!

While in BJ, there is only one bias that YOU know of, in Baccarat there are many. A plurality of tens in Baccarat is MEANINGLESS but other biases are extremely meaningful such as opposites vs repeats or TB4L vs OTB4L or even B vs P. And when there is no disparity THAT is the bias and net bet will beat them. No, they don't always last but they USUALLY do. They aren't always there but they usually are.

What is the first and only question a new player asks when he sits down to your Bac table in the middle of a game? IS IT CHOPPY OR STREAKY? Ever heard that question before? If not then you don't have enough experience to be making ANY comment here. The Asians say it a little different: CHOP CHOP? Ever heard that before? Well thats just ONE bias.

Bac cards are shuffled the same way and use the same ASMs as BJ cards. Yet, you are saying that BJ cards are biased and Bac cards aren't. That's pretty darn lame. Maybe not the same way but they are sure as hell biased in ways that count!

The proof is in the pudding. I have plenty of winning players playing my way. They didn't suddenly become liars as Garnabby proposes. Hell, Garnabby has watched us absolutely kill a highly biased game, in person. THAT is how we play. We didn't suddenly start losing as soon as Garnabby left.

I have many very consistent winning players that play MY WAY. Very few ever leave my forum. Many have been with me 20 years or more. Here you've got a whole new crop every month. Most see a bunch of BS and leave. The rest seem to be crying in their beer. As far as I've ever seen you have only two winning players here. And guess what. They BOTH play MY WAY. And I'm not even counting AD who learned my way and is now $25,000 UP! EVERYBODY adds their own nuances. I encourage them to. It's the approach that counts.

I know you know all this. But for some strange reason you have an axe to grind. It's very obvious and every one here longer than a month knows it. I don't choose to argue with you two anymore. It's a complete waste of time for me AND for EVERYONE.

I'll be at beatthecasino.com There I can SHOW you how to win. Or, you could stay here and get Garnabby or Archer to show you. YEAH, RIGHT!

I think that folks who have been here more than a month already have your number - it's the new ones that I am concerned with.

The only axe that I have to grind with you is that half of what you say is BS! Sure, you have interesting ideas for uninformed players about the game - no problem. There are lots of examples of your BS. One of them that Garnabby addresses pertains to the idea that you state ad nauseum that the casinos can manipulate the Bacc shoes to produce specific outcomes at will. This is shear baloney and EVERYONE knows it. Yet you use it to bolster your play concepts.

I am not questioning anybody's win/loss record. As far as shoe bias goes there are two problems. 1. Thousands of documented live shoes have shown that the outcomes are in line with the calculated odds of the game. 2. It's one thing to have a bias and the other thing is to predict it.

One could call a high count in BJ, for instance, a bias. Fine, but that doesn't mean that the cards are not random. You still use, I believe, certain types of shoe monitoring called counts to change from one bet method or bet placment to another, don't you? So these counts have a positive expected value or they don't. If they do one could easily program the parameters and show specific win statistics. IF that were the case you (or anyone) selling such a method would simply produce the results of such. But YOU DON'T! The reason you don't is because you CAN'T because they don't work. So that leaves only one thing - guessing.

So, for instance, when Garnabby writes about the efficiency of Net Betting he is right on target. Net Betting is a neat trick and will win in certain circumstances but does NOT do any better than simply betting OTBL or TBL or OLD or FLD - maybe worse! You need to guess when to play one thing and not the other, isn't that right Ellis?

You make a lot of statements but really don't back anything up. The REAL PROOF is that if half of what you said was true you would put a team together and make a few million dollars instead of selling $50.00 subscriptions!

Two last things (for now). The BS you throw around is really misinformation and that is not good for players. Another is that you feign to be a teacher but you don't teach here. The ONLY reason you are here is to troll for subscriptions.

There are a lot of folks here offering quality methods of guessing Baccarat and looking at different play angles. All you do really is try to persuade people to send you money.

You are the guy who has made millions at the gambling tables and hundreds of thousands from selling systems (your own words - I will document them if you like). You teach, Teach. OR - just put in your website plug and go away.

Archer

PS. When do they change the cards at Gold Strike? I will be coming through pretty soon and will be happy to document shoes to get some anecdotal information on first shoes last shoes etc.

[Archer]

Gambling System sellers that try too hard to sell U, really don't have anything of substance to offer. The new and naive will fall for the "pitch" if its slick enough, and i was once in that group back in the late 80's because if you have interest in something, you have to start somewhere. When i stumbled upon some of Ellis' work back in the mid 90's, my game took on a more intelligent, conservative, and method type of approach. Today i can say, my approach is 50% Ellis and 50% of my own development. Why do i bring any of this up? Maybe to provide a break from some of the conflict on this site? Maybe to credit someone? Or simply, from experience to say the game's vig is pretty much irrelevent?
Yes, to all you "young" guys out there, the game gets beat everytime i sit down, and have pit crews gathering to see what i'm doing. A good system of an approach is hard to teach sometimes, and i credit Ellis for even trying to get through to some of the knuckleheads out there.

Sorry Garn, i wish to be neutral, but i side with Ellis due to real life positive experience.

Pretty strange that "pit crews gathering to see" what you are doing. People win big money all the time in this game. I have never seen pit crews "gather" around to watch any player. Further, if they are gathering around then one would think they must know you and watch you all the time. This is unlikely because all casinos (accept AC) have the option to prevent players from "trespassing." If you or anyone was beating the house for any length of time that raised enough eyebrows for them to "gather around" they would simply ask you not to play.

So sorry to say but something seems not right with those comments of yours.

Archer

[Ellis]

Watch my lips. I'm going to be brutally frank and factual with you.

If, after everything said, you don't believe in biases, quit the game - you can't win.

Sure some betting systems look good for a while. That's because the shallower and the longer a prog is the longer it takes to demonstrate that it is break even. But you won't break even. You'll lose. Why?

Think about it! All progs make you bet higher in losing shoes than you bet in winning shoes - end of story! Not to even mention commission.

What about up as you win progs? You ALWAYS lose your highest bets. - end of story.

The only way to win is to know how to find a bias and how to play that bias best. You CAN'T do that if you don't believe in biases.

Card counting in BJ is playing a bias. There are much better ways to play that bias but my point is that all winning gamblers are playing a bias - no matter what game it is. Even Roulette.

Even Poker. The best players are not playing rote mathematically. They are playing tells. A tell is a form of bias.

In Baccarat, this is very difficult to learn on your own. There are many biases and there are many ways to play them. That is what I teach and that is why I teach it and that is why my players win - end of story.

[Ellis]

New cards favored OTB4L every shoe at Gold Strike for 3 years.
Archer can choose to call that random if he wants to.

I played a table at Gold Coast that had only one straight run more than 4 for 3 days. Archer can choose to call that random if he wants to.

I played a table at Foxwood where Player won every shoe for 9 days.
Archer can choose to call that random if he wants to.

A player keeps sending me shoes from an Australian casino where every shoe has greatly favored chop since they opened months ago. BTW, casino risk is lowest in chop. Yes, they use modern ASMs. Archer can choose to call that random if he wants to.

One of my players recently had a full 8 deck shoe at Niagara that had one 1 in a row in the entire shoe. On Avg, half of all events are 1's.
Archer can choose to call that random if he wants to.

BTW, my player scored +64 in that shoe playing U1D2M2. His highest bet was 5. Had he gone to M3, as recommended, he would have scored +104.

I could go on with such examples for another 100 pages but I suspect you catch my drift.

ANYTHING and EVERYTHING can happen when you measure random against infinity. But we do not PLAY against infinity. Our job is to beat the single shoe in front of us - We play the shoe at hand the best we know how. It is ALWAYS biased.

On avg a shoe has 18 1's, 9 2s, 4.5 3s, 2.25 4's, 1.125 5s and one 7 = 72 plays. It also has 36 Banks, 36 Players, 36 Opposites and 36 Repeats and 7.2 ties.

If you ever find such a shoe, great, we'll put it in Ripley's. All other shoes are biased. It's just a question of degree.

BTW, that random shoe up there. Net Bet would have killed it. There is ALWAYS a way. So when we lose, you know what? We screwed up. There is ALWAYS a way. THAT is what I teach. And you can get better at it for the rest of your life. All you need do is believe in yourself!

[Ellis]

Pretty strange that "pit crews gathering to see" what you are doing. People win big money all the time in this game. I have never seen pit crews "gather" around to watch any player. Further, if they are gathering around then one would think they must know you and watch you all the time. This is unlikely because all casinos (accept AC) have the option to prevent players from "trespassing." If you or anyone was beating the house for any length of time that raised enough eyebrows for them to "gather around" they would simply ask you not to play.

So sorry to say but something seems not right with those comments of yours.

Archer

Archer, if you have not seen this or experienced it yourself then you either have nowhere near the experience I give you credit for or you don't play nearly as well as I give you credit for. Of course, most of your experience is card counting and it is virtually impossible to amass such wins card counting given the almost negligible 0.5% PA. But I've been there MANY MANY times both in BJ and Baccarat.

At Turning Stone they closed down the Big Bac table right in the middle of our shoe with 7 of us playing the ladder system. We were at the 32 bet. They barred all of us and they did not reopen the table for 3 years. If you've read all my books as you profess, you know about the ladder system. If not, ask your friend Keith. He was sitting right next to me. I was playing double blacks. You must have had a very mundane gambling career. Not me, and not many, many of my associates. I've just calmed down a little in my old age. What's your excuse? Casinos go freaking ape in such situations. Heads roll! We did the same thing at Foxwood and again Keith was sitting right next to me. They closed that table too and invited all of us to their best restaurant. Hey, it was good eats! Ask Keith. BTW he's coming down here to play Tunica with me. Lots of really great war stories. Why don't you show up? Hell, I'll probably be too drunk to fight anyway. You could probably try Keith. But then, damn, he's twice my size. 6'7, 380 but hell, give it a go!

[Archer]

I am not going to bother wasting bandwith on your subsequent anecdotal posts. Did anybody happen to see 60 Mnutes this evening? One of the segments was "Pigeon Fever." How con men are able to sell their cons so easily by combining truth with untruths as well as relying on the anxiety of their potential "clients" making them think they are missing out on some wonderful opportunity.

Below you seem to say random cards have a bias while normally you insist that the cards are not random. Again having it both ways. But let's talk about Bacc play and exploiting a bias. First note that you use progressions in all your methods. But here you disparage them. Weird!

What does exploit a bias mean? It simply means looking at past occurences and applying a bet placement that would have a positive result if that "bias" will continue. If it does you win, if it doesn't you lose and then repeat the same process or stop playing. Quitting while ahead or behind is money management. End of story!

Take Pitboss' OTBL method with a few start and switch rules. A good overall method. Add a way to exploit the many single runs in a shoe and it will do better. I suggest playing these single runs independently - maybe even as two distinct side independent games. IOW, now you have three different progs going at the same time. But one could play them all concurrently.

How about Leonardong method? He is trying to predict a bias but is using a strict mechanical method with some money management.

Both of these methods are as good as what you are trying to sell here.

Anytime we don't flat bet we are using a progression of sorts. The length, the amount and the type will each realize different results.

The brutal facts are that you are here on a free site pretending to have valuable information which you don't.


Archer

Watch my lips. I'm going to be brutally frank and factual with you.

If, after everything said, you don't believe in biases, quit the game - you can't win.

Sure some betting systems look good for a while. That's because the shallower and the longer a prog is the longer it takes to demonstrate that it is break even. But you won't break even. You'll lose. Why?

Think about it! All progs make you bet higher in losing shoes than you bet in winning shoes - end of story! Not to even mention commission.

What about up as you win progs? You ALWAYS lose your highest bets. - end of story.

The only way to win is to know how to find a bias and how to play that bias best. You CAN'T do that if you don't believe in biases.

Card counting in BJ is playing a bias. There are much better ways to play that bias but my point is that all winning gamblers are playing a bias - no matter what game it is. Even Roulette.

Even Poker. The best players are not playing rote mathematically. They are playing tells. A tell is a form of bias.

In Baccarat, this is very difficult to learn on your own. There are many biases and there are many ways to play them. That is what I teach and that is why I teach it and that is why my players win - end of story.

[Ellis]

[quote=Archer;18598]

I think that folks who have been here more than a month already have your number - it's the new ones that I am concerned with.

That is complete craven BS. You and Garnabby are concerned with yourselves, nothing more, nothing less. Neither of you have the slighest regard for the plight of the players whatsoever. If you have proven nothing else, you have proven that. Show me one single post either of you have ever written that is of any help to any player whatsoever. You both want to be king of the roost but you both destroy your ambitions with every post you write. You too are the height of jealousy. Complete sour grapes. Lets let the players decide. I'm all for that.

[Archer]

ArcherI was just agreeing with John about all the crap that goes on here

I hear you gerard. In my opinion MOST of the crap comes from E.C. "I don't sell systems" Davis who brags about making millions of dollars playing Baccarat and Blackjack and hundreds of thousands selling systems. I am still waiting for him to tell me where I can get a hold of his "33 books" that he wrote.

When he stops the BS and begins to contribute all this secret knowledge I will stop hassling him.

The reason he is a con man is twofold: 1. half of what he states as fact is not true and 2. what he sells has no real value.

Archer

[Ellis]

I am not going to bother wasting bandwith on your subsequent anecdotal posts. Did anybody happen to see 60 Mnutes this evening? One of the segments was "Pigeon Fever." How con men are able to sell their cons so easily by combining truth with untruths as well as relying on the anxiety of their potential "clients" making them think they are missing out on some wonderful opportunity.

Below you seem to say random cards have a bias while normally you insist that the cards are not random. Again having it both ways. But let's talk about Bacc play and exploiting a bias. First note that you use progressions in all your methods. But here you disparage them. Weird!

What does exploit a bias mean? It simply means looking at past occurences and applying a bet placement that would have a positive result if that "bias" will continue. If it does you win, if it doesn't you lose and then repeat the same process or stop playing. Quitting while ahead or behind is money management. End of story!

Take Pitboss' OTBL method with a few start and switch rules. A good overall method. Add a way to exploit the many single runs in a shoe and it will do better. I suggest playing these single runs independently - maybe even as two distinct side independent games. IOW, now you have three different progs going at the same time. But one could play them all concurrently.

How about Leonardong method? He is trying to predict a bias but is using a strict mechanical method with some money management.

Both of these methods are as good as what you are trying to sell here.

Anytime we don't flat bet we are using a progression of sorts. The length, the amount and the type will each realize different results.

The brutal facts are that you are here on a free site pretending to have valuable information which you don't.


Archer

Well actually that was a pretty good post for the most part. I give credit where credit is due. But in the end you just can't help yourself. It's as if you suddenly realized you were agreeing with me. Heaven forbid. You two are such ridiculous phonies.

[Archer]

[quote=Ellis;18605]

That is complete craven BS. You and Garnabby are concerned with yourselves, nothing more, nothing less. Neither of you have the slighest regard for the plight of the players whatsoever. If you have proven nothing else, you have proven that. Show me one single post either of you have ever written that is of any help to any player whatsoever. You both want to be king of the roost but you both destroy your ambitions with every post you write. You too are the height of jealousy. Complete sour grapes. Lets let the players decide. I'm all for that.

LOL. I want to be "king of the roost?" That's a joke coming from someone who has written over 350 posts! From someone who has 4000 members on his own forum but spends more time here than there!

"regard for the plight of players" hehehehe! You ARE THE MASTER!!!! Such empathy and compassion! I have one hand wiping the tears of plight running down my cheeks and the other hand reaching for my checkbook to write you a check for $500.00!!!!

Ellis for the most part my posts are about the aspects of the game even as they relate to your comments. Like above you never seem to discuss the subjects that are raised. Your posts are mostly fantastic anecdotes and sales pitches disguised as important information but designed to move people into your wallet.

Actually, you are happy that Garnabby and I are on your case all the time because it gives you the excuse not to leave! Where would you be without us? You'd be stuck on our own site! LOL

A

[Ellis]

I hear you gerard. In my opinion MOST of the crap comes from E.C. "I don't sell systems" Davis who brags about making millions of dollars playing Baccarat and Blackjack and hundreds of thousands selling systems. I am still waiting for him to tell me where I can get a hold of his "33 books" that he wrote.

When he stops the BS and begins to contribute all this secret knowledge I will stop hassling him.

The reason he is a con man is twofold: 1. half of what he states as fact is not true and 2. what he sells has no real value.

Archer

Except Archer, my players win while you continue to lose. That's pretty damn hard to get around isn't it. But I know you will try.

BTW, I think most here will vouch that I have contributed quite a bit whereas I will challenge you to find a single post where you have contributed anything whatsoever other than rants and jealous rages. Perhaps you simply have nothing to offer. Losers always resort to name calling sooner or later just as you have done. Thats what they do when they can't answer the questions put forth to them. You can't put forth a single thing in your defense. No trip reports. Absolutely nothing. Many have seen me win. Many have played with me. You play in the dark, if at all. There must be a reason for that. One thing about scammers, nobody ever sees them play. Everybody has seen me play including your cohort Garnabby. Nobody has ever seen YOU play or him. Why don't you both come down here and play ME. Let's settle it once and for all. Put your money where your mouth is for once. But no, you two both always have some lame excuse everyone sees right straight through. I say neither of you could play your way out of a wet paper bag. Bac or BJ. So there it is again. Prove me wrong. Otherwise forever shut the hell up! You two are a complete waste of time. All name calling but no action.

[Archer]

Well actually that was a pretty good post for the most part. I give credit where credit is due. But in the end you just can't help yourself. It's as if you suddenly realized you were agreeing with me. Heaven forbid. You two are such ridiculous phonies.

LOL, Ellis, I wrote this post, not Garnabby. I'm a phoney? Hahah. Why? Am I charging too much for secret information about shoe biases?

Note you did not care to discuss Baccarat.

A

[Ellis]

[quote=Archer;18608]

LOL. I want to be "king of the roost?" That's a joke coming from someone who has written over 350 posts! From someone who has 4000 members on his own forum but spends more time here than there!

"regard for the plight of players" hehehehe! You ARE THE MASTER!!!! Such empathy and compassion! I have one hand wiping the tears of plight running down my cheeks and the other hand reaching for my checkbook to write you a check for $500.00!!!!

Ellis for the most part my posts are about the aspects of the game even as they relate to your comments. Like above you never seem to discuss the subjects that are raised. Your posts are mostly fantastic anecdotes and sales pitches disguised as important information but designed to move people into your wallet.

Actually, you are happy that Garnabby and I are on your case all the time because it gives you the excuse not to leave! Where would you be without us? You'd be stuck on our own site! LOL

A

God, how feeble can you get? Your post is meaningless and pointless. Come on down and play. Let's get right to the point. Put up or shut up.

[Ellis]

Oh yeah, either game. Better yet, both games. You or That other phony can't beat me at either. Come on down! Let's play!

[kolokotronis]

Archer,
for your education, why don't you meet me down in Lake Charles, LA just East of Houston at the Lauberge Du Lac Casino this Sat., 2/20?? I'll introduce you to my method of play...involves 4 systems in concert till about mid shoe. I wait till midshoe to pickup on game type and that's where some discretion comes into play. I avg. 8 units per. and feel resistance in the low to mid teens, but my losing shoe is -1 or -2. My method looks complex from a birds eye view, and the "staff" gather cause my score card looks like a page from Diff. equations and i'm usually the last man standing after a "tough" shoe. There are about 8 Bac tables, booked up due to the large Asian population in SE Texas. I'll be one of the few Caucasians. That's how you'll spot me.
Now for your entertainment, i want to let you know that i was in Vegas during the Thanks Giving week, my in-laws have a time share at the Planet Hollywood. I played the electronic game at Bellagio. As players left in disgust, mumbling "unbeatable", i did slightly better than my Avg. And the game moves fast without much time to think.
One guy there was trying to influence the players figuring he could outsmart the random generator, and suguested we all bet heavy on one side only to "tilt" the machine. Shows you there are very few pros in the game. The peculiar Asian girl next to me, who kept scribling in her pocket size note book, could only break even at best. Her half drunk boyfriend, impressed with her game, was trying to drag her into the high limit and promised to finance her with big bucks. Very few pros in the game....

[garnabby]

Hey Garnabby, you have totally lost the plot.

From somebody who claims can give a signature for a 25,000 advance at any casino, does not make posts full of such dribble.

You need to spend more time on with your partner, leave the computer alone. It obviously hasn't been good for you (Baccarat), and things probably won't change. It probably hasn't been good for a few people on this board, but they aren't making nonsensical threads / posts that you do. You are venting all your anger of your loss at Ellis, handle it like a man, not a spoilt child. Nobody ever forced anybody to gamble, failing that seek help.

While I am not fan of sellers, but what others do with their money is not my business. I have learn over time, if I want to fight some moral crusade, I'm sure I could find more interesting things to expose than people trying to sell fake gambling systems. Wake up and open your eyes kid, most of the world is corrupt, Canadian fake lottery scams, email & phone scams, sales men, all the way up to governments.

Sellers will be around long after you have gone, it's not worth the energy, stupid people will always exist, but that's their business. Going by the amount of time and effort you put into these rants, you only paint a picture of somebody hurting, not somebody who can give a signature for 25k.

Open you eyes look at the response, you are coming across as the biggest fool on this board. You haven't exactly ever posted anything worthwhile regarding the game, you haven't posted anything of interest to players of the game and you most probably don't play much.

Why not put your efforts into seeking employment or improving your employment prospects before it's too late. Life can’t be this mundane for you. Quit playing the retarded policeman of the board, you have your “closest” to consider, and there is also GA, I'm sure they meet at your location, you can't be "that far gone"?

A lot of work right there... for what. I afforded you the opportunity to post any proof, as did i already, of any of your ridiculous claims at the GG, and beyond.

But this is all you can do, like Ellis, Profbac, and ANY of the others... ? Seen better crybabies.

What's wrong johno, nobody left at the GG?

http://www.gamblersglen.com/cgi-bin/..._Message_Board

http://www.gamblersglen.com/cgi-bin/..._Message_Board

[garnabby]

At least Seven gave it up.

I mean, why would a dealer go through all of that, just to remove a few aces from the deck (once at the start)... as was done at the Soaring Eagle(?) in Michigan about 10 years ago?

Even they were eventually caught... and heavily fined.

[garnabby]

sillE,

Just checked out the all "new" BTC, at Baccarat ... what a "come-down", that is if you were ever up, lol. Good to see my efforts are having an impact after all.

And old ADulay, aka MVSeahog (, which he admitted here, shortly after showing up regularly along with the rest of the crew there), now an Admin there... surprise, surprise. NO, NO, HE'S NOT SELLING ANYTHING. LOL.

This just gets easier and easier... more time to post more good stuff (about Ellis, that is)!

[ADulay]

Garn,

Once again, I'll ask you to refrain from including my name in any of your stupid rants.

You will notice that I never post here in any thread of yours UNTIL YOU BRING UP MY NAME.

So, one more time. Leave me out of your fantasy world of demon baccarat players who have the audacity to take money out of the casino.

I don't believe I've ever attempted to sell anything here, nor have I made any blatant sales pitches for anything.

I have answered every single one of your questions, to which I really can't say the same for you.

So, you banned me from your own forum for some unknown reason. I can only assume because your mind thinks I'm selling something so I must be the enemy I guess. Nope, I don't sell anything. I'm just a baccarat player who learns something every day that I play.

Kindly leave me out of your childish charade.

Why do I have two user names? Would it be to maintain an element of fairness in posting so that it doesn't appear that I have any conflict of interest? Nah, that would make too much sense.

So, when you figure out what I've been selling that would warrant me being banned from your own forum that now gets three users a day, please let me know.

Where did you say you played? (The eternal unanswered question!)

AD

[garnabby]

Archer

I was just agreeing with John about all the crap that goes on here

You mean the "crap" by persons who's only posts are about that?