Thread: Leo System (Still on Trial)

Hi Guys! I'm just joined this forum and happy to see different systems suggeted by others. I have one system called Leo system which still in trial. I have used the real live results and get quite good results. Of course will some certain rules I have make myself.

I make a average loss of 12 - 18 units per shoe ( for poor shoe) and get out at +10 to +15 per shoe. Although the max loss may be more than what I get in good shoe. The chances that it happened for me right now is about 1/6 of my shoes. So if 5/6 * average of +10 = +50 - 1/6 * -18= -18. I still win around +32 in 6 shoes which I think is alright for me.

I am happy if any of your guys want to try but please feed back to me and i would like to see if you get the same results as me.

Here is goes:

New shoe: Please see which one have 6 wins 1st and back it for the entire shoe. Note: Pls make sure the difference between banker and player should not be more than 3. 2 is the ideal one. After that, you should be playing the next 15 to 25 hands. (You probably will play 2 -3 sets) Can play more sets in one shoe.

The betting progession should be this :

make five one like this : 1 1 1 1 1 (this consider as 1 set)

always bet the total of extreme left and right units.
If win, cross out the two extremes and it will left 111.
if loss, add the loss no of units to your right.

Keep doing it until you cross out all five ones.
Stop when you encountered four straight losses. Your loss should be be around -12 to -18.
Stop if you encountered the loser is catching up the difference of your side. Eg. B4 play: B+6 P+4 and during play : B+14 P+16. It will probably indicate that this is a bad shoe (85% with my results).
So basically you re expecting to win +5 units per shoe.

I played about 20 shoes each session and averaging 100 units. That is a bit less amount of my Bankroll for the session (becos of 5% banker commision.

This system is based on my 200 shoes (10 session as now)

So guys ... feel free to try my system and let me know if you get where I am.

Cheers,
Leo

I make a mistake in the difference banker and player. The ideal is 4.

Your winning system is interesting. Please can you show examples of your betting as it is not so clear to me.

Originally Posted by JohnMalaysia

Your winning system is interesting. Please can you show examples of your betting as it is not so clear to me.

My target is to win five units at a set. I recommend to play a maximum sets of 2 -3 in one shoe which gives a winning units of +10 to +15. It would appear as 1 1 1 1 1. Bet the total number of units added from the extremes left and right. In the 1st bet, you place 2 units to the winning side. Cancel the two extreme numbers if you win and place again based on the remaining numbers from the extremes again. In this case, it will be another 2 units. If the 1st bet is a loss, place 2 on the extreme right as this: 1 1 1 1 1 2. The 2nd bet will be 3 units and so on. When you finish cancel all numbers in the se, you will five units.
Eg. The sequence is BBB PPP B P B P, the result will be like this
1st bet =B 1 1 1 1 1 2
2nd Bet =B 1 1 1 1 1 2 3
3rd Bet = B 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4
4th Bet = P 1 1 1 1 2 3
5th Bet = P 1 1 1 2
6th Bet = P 1 1
7th Bet = B 1 1 2
8th Bet = P 1
9th Bet = B 1 1
10th Bet = P Complete the set
As you see, the number of Banker and Player appear is the same and yet you still win 5 units. Usually the side which appears the 6 wins had a end positive value of +3 to +7. So the chances of winning 2 – 3 sets (+10 to +15)are very high. Stop the shoe if you win 3 sets very fast. This method can deals with most streaks except losing side dragon. That why I recommend to stop when losing side has 4 wins in a row. But sometimes I raise the limit to 5 wins in a row when I won the 1st set. I hope this will help you to understand.

This does always work even if the difference between banker and player still remains as 2 in the end. But if the end should is more than > -2 & above, you may experience a bad shoe, depending on the sequence. Personally, I will stop and consider it as a bad shoe if the losing side turns a four consecutive wins which is very rare.

Hi everyone. This is my first post. Have been reading with interest regarding leonard"s post.
Leonard, what did you mean when you said: Please note the difference between banker and player should not be more than 3. 2 is ideal. Then you corrected it to 4 is ideal?

Tho other thing is you said: This does always work even if the difference between banker and player still remain as 2 in the end. I could not understand that. Everything else you wrote has been absorbed.

As soon as I have your reply, I will put it to test.
Thanks.

Regard to your question, usually after the first 9 - 11 hands, you will know which one is leading 6 wins right? Eg. Banker = 4 & Player = 6 in the 1st 10 hands; the difference is +2 right? After the shoe is finished, you calculate the difference again and the average difference for a normal shoe is about +3 to +7 which still consider as good shoe. If the shoe difference is still at +2, that means after the initial count, the numbers of banker and player appearing is at the same rate like B = 25 & Player = 27.

The after initial count sequence can be like this:

BPPBPBBPPPBBPBBPPBBP BPBPBPPBPBBPBBBPPPPBBP

the difference between Banker and Player is 0 after the initial count, but you are most probably have won two sets which is +10. And until now, I only encounter 3/36 bad shoes which has a losing side dragon. If you are lucky to win the 1st 7 shoes at an average of +15 (3 sets)per shoes, you should end your session. I do have a streak of +30 before for your info but I don't do it often.

Cheers,
Leo

Thanks Leonard for the reply. I think I will start a trial run on your system. Will keep you posted. By the way, is your system only applicable to live shoes only? What about online games? Thanks again.

I played online live dealer and live. but online is better choice as you can Play 3 shoes at same time

Hi leonard,
daniel here again. Thanks for the quick reply.
Can I play your system against the computor software (RNG)?
OR is your system only meant for Live Dealers only?
Thanks.

only on live dealer, i never tried in RNG

Originally Posted by leonardong79

New shoe: Please see which one have 6 wins 1st and back it for the entire shoe. Note: Pls make sure the difference between banker and player should not be more than 3. 2 is the ideal one.

Let's just say Player starts off stronger than Banker. At the beginning of a shoe there are 6 possible states when Player reaches 6:
P=6 B=0 no play?
P=6 B=1 no play?
P=6 B=2 no play?
P=6 B=3
P=6 B=4
P=6 B=5

Are you saying don't play until one of them reaches 6?

Also, are you saying don't play the 6/0, 6/1, and 6/2 cases?

I do believe he is saying( in your sample case) wait until the bank looses enough to be behind at least 3, I would just wait out the shoe and not play,if I had P6,B2 or B1 or B0 I want every angle on my side . quick run on this system had some nice plus 15 results i like the stop loss at -12 to -18 if 1 in six shoes is lost 15 x 5 = 75 minus 18 = +57
I can live with that

Hi fulkgl,
Yes, don't play until one of them(bank or player) reaches six wins.
Then start playing following his progressions.

Hi again Fulkgl,
You start playing when 6-0, 6-1, 6-2.

Hi leonard,
I could not test it on the live dealer because my connection is too slow.
But I tested it against the RNG. Played seven sets. Results were:
+5, -14, +5, +5, +5, +5, +5. It looks good at the moment.
Is seven sets in on shoe too much to play?

Hi daniel,

If you are playing 6 decks , the ideal set is about 2 -3 and 4 -5 sets for 8 decks (this usually apply at live casino not online as online tends to stop at 6 decks). Do not tend to be too greedy as if you win 3 sets just 10 - 15 hands, that means the difference between two sides is around + 6 to +10, the second half of the shoe, the losing side will start balance a bit back especially at +10, if you have started a certain of shoes already you will notice you have a negative count if you played in this shoe.

And fulkgl, I do not recommend you to play when P6 B0 as most of the set will be in the range at +2 to +6, so the shoe tend to have a losing mini dragon of 4 -7 wins in a row. As my recommend loss is at -14 to -18 for 4 straight loss, I will avoid this shoe and go for another one.

Hi leonard,
Got what you trying to say. Will keep that in mind.
I will have to test it again and keep you posted.
Hi fulkgl, I am sorry I told to start betting at P6 B0. I must have got it wrong. Still trying to understand Leo's system.

hi

today i went to casino at the tanah merah ferry terminal. i went to play bacarat straight away. I count the last 10 hands and managed to see P is 6 times while B=4 times. so i play PPBPPBPPBPPBPPB then the tide changed to favour B so I changed to BBPBBPBBPBBP 1unit = $50, I managed to win $1200 with no danger of losing, draw down is about $200 then it is all the way up and up. Very good system, i will try again day after tomorrow because tomorrow the ferry is not sailing and will sail eve of cny

tide change i mean the B starts to change to 6 times, so i also change accordingly

edward

Hi Leonard,
Played two live shoes:
First shoe +5, +5, stop.
Second shoe +5, +5, stop.

I have decided to play safe to avoid the danger of being carried away.
Taking a few days off as Chinese New Year is around the corner.
Happy Chinese New Year to you Leonard and everybody out there.
Thanks.

Hey Leonard!

I have some questions. I start only when is P6 B1 and P6 B2,at +5 and +4,but if is P6 and B3,this is +3,can I still start to play or not at +3?

What if I have P6 B4,P6 B5,P6 B6,that is only +2,+1,0,need now to wait new shoe,or still now wait to have different between player and banker +3 to +7?

Example have P6 B5,+1,now I wait for new shoe or wait to have +3 to +7,like P9 B5,+4,and start now to play or always must be one side only 6 wins and another side 1,2 or 3 wins at the start of a shoe,like P6 B1,P6 B2,P6 B3?

And more one question,when I won first 5 units and have +5,I need to count all the time difference between banker and player?If I have now after I won +5 units difference only +1,+2 or 0,I wait now to have +3 to +7 on same side I won before or stop to play and wait new shoe?

System is very interesting,thanks for the system Leonard.

So, right off the start this system skips 2 out of 7 shoes. I've confirmed with both past real shoe data and random number generated shoes that 28-30% of the time you start a shoe with 6/0, 6/1, or 6/2; which are no plays.

Some past real shoe data sources showed a profit if you stopped after 1 completed set. 2+ completed sets start to show a loss. As you increase the stop limit on completed sets the real shoe data tends to get worse. It's like other negative EV plays - you might win, if you risk a lot to win a little.

Hi

I think you played wrong,P6 B1,P6 B2 you need to play and P6 B0,P6 B3,P6 B4,P6 B5 you not play,only difference between banker and player need to be +4 or +5 at the start of the shoe,maybe I get it wrong.

Originally Posted by fulkgl

So, right off the start this system skips 2 out of 7 shoes. I've confirmed with both past real shoe data and random number generated shoes that 28-30% of the time you start a shoe with 6/0, 6/1, or 6/2; which are no plays.

Some past real shoe data sources showed a profit if you stopped after 1 completed set. 2+ completed sets start to show a loss. As you increase the stop limit on completed sets the real shoe data tends to get worse. It's like other negative EV plays - you might win, if you risk a lot to win a little.

I like your work, fulkgl! But I see no reason to NOT start at 6/0, 6/1 or 6/2. These ratios do NOT portend future results. If we use this criteria we are assuming that the low side will catch up way more often then not.

But the method looks like it will do very well indeed on shoes that maintain even or close ratios throughout or even part of a shoe.

If use this method you may be careful not to bet the side with those isolated 1's like: PPP B PPP. Even without getting that losing 4 in a row you can go deep. Perhaps you might try to stop the play on the side that first shows this. eg. BB P BB (stop here and wait to see P double before continue).

Archer

Is this shoe played correctly according to Leonard's method?

IM no expert here but he clearly states that you start a shoe when the difference is 3 or less than 3

ex.
B6 P5
B6 P4 (ideal)
B6 P3

thats it simple read the rules again

New shoe: Please see which one have 6 wins 1st and back it for the entire shoe. Note: Pls make sure the difference between banker and player should not be more than 3. 2 is the ideal one. After that, you should be playing the next 15 to 25 hands. (You probably will play 2 -3 sets) Can play more sets in one shoe.

Archer

The first bet is always 2 if you win second bet is 2 if you lose the second bet is 3 so you need to redo the math just trying to help from what I learned


Gerard

Originally Posted by Archer

Is this shoe played correctly according to Leonard's method?

Archer,

Was that a live shoe? May I ask from where if it is? I keep adding to my test collection of live shoes and I would like to use that one if it's not an RNG shoe.

Thanks.

AD

Originally Posted by gerard711

ArcherThe first bet is always 2 if you win second bet is 2 if you lose the second bet is 3 so you need to redo the math just trying to help from what I learnedGerard

Thanks for the correction on the ratios but I still don't see why we bet 2 units after a winning 2.

One thing that I find interesting about this method is that it is similar to Ellis' Net Betting. Right Ad? Leo is essentially predicting (hoping) that the start ratio of 1, 2, or 3 portends a shoe that is more chop than streak. So he will invariably win those shoes. The risk will be higher on some bets while Ellis' Net Betting promotes 2 units maximum. So Ellis will do better on such a shoe as long as he doesn't get a lot of 3's and 4's. Leo, on the other hand will risk more but will be able to capitalize on 3's as long as the shoe reverts back to the chop ratio. Another advantage to Leo is that he will make a real kill on shoes that he happens to be betting on the dominant side. IOW, when the side he bets takes off with 4's and more he will be on it. While Net Betting the chop will get hammered on 4's and necessarily have to make a switch. Leo just stops the shoe and leaves on a 4 loss.

A

Originally Posted by ADulay

Archer,

Was that a live shoe? May I ask from where if it is? I keep adding to my test collection of live shoes and I would like to use that one if it's not an RNG shoe.

Thanks.

AD

Mohegan Sun December 2009

Hi Archer,
This is how I read the shoe that you posted.
You start play at hand 10(you are required to bet Bank).
By hand 16, you would have been up +5. That set is considered finished.
The new set should start at hand 17(you are required to bet Bank again).
By hand 31, you should have been up +5 again. And so on....
All Leonard's do's and don't's as well as his progressions apply.
I will stick to two +5 wins and quit the shoe. I am playing it safe.
Like he(Leonard) said: Quit at +10 to +15.

I hope I have read your shoe correctly.

Originally Posted by Archer

Mohegan Sun December 2009

Thanks.

AD