Should we have a thread to discuss other games strategy? I realize this is "Baccarat" Forums, but maybe we could all benefit from discussion of MM systems and +EV strategies that pertain to other games as well..

Just my $0.02

TheArchitect

Other Games. I think Bac is best because of the low house edge. Roulette ( American ) has bad odds although the pendulum on even bets swing hard 1 way for a long time. Could work great with an Oscars Grind. Craps even bets are good and the pendulum seems to me to stay closer together. Could work great for D Alem. Bac is very unpredictable about the pendulum and it could work great for certain MM at different times. BJ is impossible to win with a negative progression becuase you lose more hands than win. BJ only hope is to have a good basic stratigie and be a good card counter with flat bets and increase bets when the count is in the players favor. Most other games have bad odds and I wont play games with bad odds like Keno and one arm bandits. I heard some video poker games can pay out if you have a good enough stratigie.
For now I only stick with Bac and Craps although I wasted years studing Roulette.

Was just curious to see if there should be a sub forum for discussion of other games...

For instance, card counting in Spanish 21 is probably the most beatable game in the casino, you can obtain as much as a 5.8% edge under favorable conditions.

TheArchitect

It's a thought. Of course the name of the forums and domain name is baccaratforums.com so we're very specialized

But perhaps at least a thread devoted to each game.

What specific games would you like to see a thread/sub-forum devoted to? Please list them.

Would you mind directing me to a link that details how to obtain that 5% advantage at Spanish 21? I know of other table games with player advantages and would be willing to exchange info.

Using optimum player strategy for the specific game of Spanish 21 and using a Hi-Low Count beginning at -24, you will the following +EV:

TC (True Count) EV
-2 0.39%
-1 1.00%
0 1.62%
1 2.29%
2 2.97%
3 3.64%
4 4.30%
5 4.99%
6 5.80%

So I don't know about you, but I'm basically going to put all of my time and focus into this for now on.

TheArchitect

I used to use the Hi Lo in the 90s for single deck play before they killed the game with 6-5 payouts and lousy rule changes. This is the first I've heard of it as applied to Spanish 21. Can the Wizard corroborate these figures? Thank you for the info: If you need advice on gaining an advantage over Craps; 3 Card Poker; or Poker just let me know.

Hi sevenshooter. You can tell us the advantage over craps. Im interested in that. Thanks

The Wizard doesn't give any figures based on card removal effects on the house edge. Katarina Walker (who corrected some of the Wizards basic strategy for Spanish 21) gives these figures in her book.

Anyone here decent at counting cards?

TheArchitect

In acquiring a player advantage in craps the most important thing other than using a correct preset and making corresponding wagers is the throw itself. I'm sorry but I have to laugh when I see shooters setting the dice and then recklessly bouncing them off the felt and diamonds.

The dice MUST remain on axis and MUST travel over the table TOGETHER side by side.

It is so easy to distinguish between a random roll and a controlled throw: just watch the dice. If you ever get the chance to witness this particular delivery of the dice then bet hard, bet big and copycat all of the shooter's own wagers.

Sevenshooter. I agree in a controlled shooter vs random shooter. I myself do OK with setting the dice. But it just takes a lot of time and practice to get it right. I have not seen many shooters that know the correct way to control shooting the dice. In fact, its a blue moon when you spot a good shooter. Thats when its time to lay the chips down and ride it out.

You're right -- it does take a lot of practice. In the end, it's worth the time invested.

Sevenshooter. How much practice do you have in shooting the dice? I only have about 4 years and thats not everyday practice. I have many , many pairs of dice that I thorw at home to practice keeping them on their axis, I like to keep the 1s and the 12s on the axis so I can take advantage of the 30-1. It just takes 1 of those diamonds on he backfield to throw off the axis. But I see were you are going if you can finda table that does't cars about the back wall. Good luck to you ion the Craps dice

It's fine to first practice at home with casino-issued dice yet even better to practice on the table itself.

For the sake of putting in a good practice session at an actual craps table, make Doey-Don't minimum bets on the Pass Line and the Don't Pass Line and roll to your heart's content. Use a preset with the sixes on both sides and focus on grip; pick-up; keeping the dice level and square with the back wall; angle of delivery; rotation; and landing. Shooting from the first position adjacent to the Stickman is best since it cuts at least three feet out of the equation. This will end up costing you several minimum bets overall, yet I found the investment to be worth it.

Being a good crap shooter is keeping the 7s from showing up more than normal. Its a the greatest rush if you can beat the odds on a controlled throw. I am not saying I can do it all the time. But I have thrown the bones to where I have not seen a 7 in 35 throws. I made a killing that round and I became everyones friend. I think craps is fun when you can find a good shooter.

You just got for free folks what many pay $x,xxx to learn from a "pro". Learn your dice sets (which you can download the basic ones for free here: ♠Craps Appendix 6 — Expectations for the Dice Setter, by The Wizard of Odds), get a practice table or some means to throw the dice on and against something table like, practice, practice, practice, then the best advise is to go to the casino and shoot with low stakes. SevenShooter's advice is great. Nothing compares to shooting in a real casino with real money on the table. Playing the d0/don't together will lose 1 unit every 36 comeouts, which is what. 1 unit an hour. I call that cheap tuition. Hell, even play just one side or the other you wouldn't lose too much either way. Maybe start by playing the don't (since your rolls will likely still be random at first), and then when you start making more and more throws, move to the do, and start making that $$

TheArchitect

After the point is established. I like to set the dice with the 6s up in a horizontal pattern. That way its fast to set and keeps the 3s and the 4s on the axis. This set takes out 2 ways to get a 7. Now this set will only have 4 chances on a 7 instead of 6. If both bones are being tossed perfectly. I like to play the 30to1 odds on a 2 or 12. My best I ever done in craps was I lost almost all my BR and I put $5 on 12 and it hit. I wanted to parlay it but the house had a $100max on 12. So I put $50 in my pocket and put $100 on 12 and it it hit again for a quick $3000. I put another $100 on 12 and it hit again. Tried another $100 but no such luck. That was the fastest gain I ever had. I drove home with the biggest smile on my face

Horizontal sixes with the three and four on the sides is often called the, "Straight Sixes" preset. It is used to seven-out quickly when you're playing the Don't. The Straight Sixes Preset gives you 4-1 vs. points of 4/10; 2-1 vs. 6/8; and makes the roll of a 5 or 9 theoretically impossible.

Did you mean, "Vertical Sixes", with the 2 and the 5 on the sides?

If you're playing the Pass Line then you'd want to use the, "Flying V", or the, "Mini-V", presets to limit the seven to just two occurances out of sixteen.

Sorry

That was wrong of me to edit my last posting. Here it is. I studied roulette for years and I follow the law of the third. Make sure it is a single zero wheel. Sit and watch the wheel and jot down the 6 hottest numbers and the 6 coldest numbers. All other numbers are naturals. Bet on all natural numbers and see what kind of results you will have. This is the Holy Grail of roulette. This is not a joke. See for yourself. It works like a hot knife thru butter. The cold numbers stay cold and thats where the profit is. Its a lot of work to keep track but if you want money. Here it is. I guess its about time someone posted the real deal

Ha ha -- normally I avoid games like Roulette but I tried your system out for kicks. Played for 30 minutes online and hit those 'natural' numbers at a rate of approximately five to one. How have others fared?

UP FOR NOW. WINS MORE THAN LOOSES. Did you ever consider playing the hot and leaving out the cold? I think this is a great system. Lets see what it does in the long term.

What is the law of the third?

The law of the third is you will see 24 numbers on average out of 36 spins. 12 numbers will be absent on average. The same holds true for dice. 36 ways put into a third is 66% or 33%. Think real hard about taking advantage of this situation? I think I just showed you 1 possibility.

System works great. I suggest playing the hot numbers as well. I am up big. I say lets have a contest on who can post the best system. So far this is the best.

Thanks graylove. Do you know how many people are going to steal this and sell your system. It works great, Thanks a lot

Way way up. This is the bomb. Kicking butt. I think a third works. Check out Black orchid casino. They do the dirty work for you. You will see what I mean. Bring them to their knees.

850 naturals, 249 hot numbers. 29 cold numbers. I think playing the hot numbers as well is the better system.