.

This was inevitable. Good luck guys! I'll do what I can to help you get off to a good start. A word of advice. Be careful who you let in. The wrong people can ruin your forum in no time. Stay on topic.

Sorry guys! I can't get your log-in to accept any user name I try. What are your user name requirements? Password requirements?

Ok, buddy. Congratulations.

I have already signed up and would try to assist you.

I am sure with your talents, the forum will eventually be successful. But, it would take some times.

I am very sure you have a great system worth investing in!

I think you would need aggressive promotions and advertising now to ensure survival of your forum.

John- why are you selling the sniper system? Give it away to 5-10 testers and then they can document their results. Then you would have some credibility before charging hundreds of dollars for an unknown system. All of us have been down this road too many times before. user

Congrats. i wish you much sucess!!

Thanks for your honesty. I look forward to all the replies.user

Hi guys, all went well the very next time I tried to log in. It was probably just me. I was pretty foggy this morning. Very nice set up and I wish you every success.

Just took a look at your forum. I see you are getting quite a few posts already, well done, good luck with it all.

But any casino could buy it? Don't have to publicize a truly-winning system (secret) to see its value plummet (for they who "buy" it.)

And like any other gambling system for sale... it's for PUBLIC sale only because it doesn't work, or doesn't work very well.




A lot of work, in its self, doesn't in any way connote any actual success(es). Probably the reason you're now attempting to sell something?

True generousity here could only be to not charge anything to any of those you want to have it.




That's true, but doesn't imply that any given opinion (about other things), such as yours about some aspect of this game, is true.

In fact, all this is just the beginnings of another "smooth-talking" scammer... i wonder how many of them started out with all the heart-felt "selling out, but not selling out" rationales above, before unjustly ending up "in for a penny, in for a pound"?

Theirs all comes down to an unreasonable amount of money up front for only some more of those rationales... in contrast to actually receiving a fully-guaranteed, etc, product from a reputable seller with a legal business licence, taxation number, etc.

What does it tell you, that the only such government-approved businessess are schools for the casino-dealers? That there just been found any way to legitimize what you, and the other scammers, are doing.

Like BTC, boards which are about selling something unsubstantiated for big rewards at something which has never been done before focus on the few who can't well distinguish reality from fantasy.

By far, that's why there are so few die-hard baccarat-players. Most who have a lot of money don't gamble, don't need/want to waste the hours away in "fantasy land"; and they who do so professionally, play the basically-countable card-game blackjack.

Therefore, they who frequent only the trashy baccarat-sites are left with the illusion a lot of persons are advocating the (non-starter) methods found there. When in reality, the vast majority of us know better, as to what we're up against with baccarat.

(It's not like the scammers ever were addressing everyone, as most never bothered showing up to begin with. But they continue to "act" as if they're important because "everyone" is watching... to rake in the losers of the losers who fall for also that.)

John1234,

Looks like you're avoiding the real issues in my reply, but i'll respond to the new ones anyway... as those are pretty far-fetched, given all my own truly-generous contributions, even to this board alone.




I told you to post it at the BCS, if you trusted the new administrator there at the time. You did not... so what. I don't subject myself to the preconceptions of system-sellers, et al. As a once professional gambler, etc, i have learned to "take it or leave it". Sorry for not being that curious by any of your own forums, etc, or what you may or may not post there. If you want to post, go ahead, it's your choice. But again, thank you for your efforts. I have learned something about baccarat, spelling, etc, from everyone here and there.




No wonder you're confused, if you can't go to a dictionary to look it up for yourself. Beyond that, i think you ought to go back a ways to one or two of the posts here about why systems for sale are system which fail, and their creator's motives. (I know which posts, i wrote some of that... but always putting up links isn't my "job" in a case like this.) So far my own motives, etc, have held up pretty good, right?




The board which i started a while back is really fully owned by proboards.com . They hand'em out freely to anyone who wants to put up with a small, single, and usually unrelated, ad at the top (, which may be removed for $7/mo).

Asfaras i was ever concerned there, and now, it was/is mainly a reference-site for the seriously-minded gamblers to see some of the basic math, etc, involved in any winning system for any casino-game. Furthermore, i have turned away no one, in fact. And at no time have i been given a single penny, or otherwise anything, from anyone on any of these boards. Nor have i solicited from anyone more than a "nominal thank-you" in the event i have been of "long-term" help to anyone.

I certainly don't need anyone's help to further my own studies on anything, much less your ridiculous innuendo's that i am conniving to that end. Also you are entitled to your opinion(s) of others work(s)... and also on the board i helped to create, right? (And incidentally, you were allowed the unhindered option to delete your own account upon its inception.

No one person stands above any board. So if you or anyone else, like Grab, and littogage, wants "out" (in a huff), then "more power to you".

BCS stands for "Best-Contributor's Section", over at Welcome - Login . That section was created for the best contributors, not eg, the best system-sellers. For those who wanted/needed, for whichever reason(s), to exchage work(s) of like greatness... with certain other levels of dependability, trust, integrity, etc, than those of the evasive, time-wasting, and pecuniary sorts found "out in the open".

Actually, i rather think that little board is doing quite well. Real progress requires real facts, real honesty, real sincerity, and real competence. How many systems is it now that once worked "extremely well" for you? I'm still working on my first one... slowly, but each and every step is certainly a step closer to the real end, whichever.

BTW, as i posted (for "fun") over at the GG last evening, i have finally found a MM which can beat the nearly-even games. It wouldn't be the first time some casino-employee shouted from his car, something like, "You're a c*ck-s*cker"... so maybe this completely-original addition to the rest of my soon-to-be-finished(?) set of bet-selection strategies will draw some more??? And if you think that's going anywhere but the BCS, dream on. I don't give away, buy/sell, trade-off on, OR BEG FOR anything. If someone wants to see it, they'll have to deserve it by earning it (like everyone else), eg, free from "hidden agendas".




My, how you've changed. Maybe you should give all this up before it destroys the rest of whom (i thought) you once were.

But if you ever make it to that "final table", then i guess i'll see you there. LOL.

Can you both find a way resolve this. Let's see how great your minds are.

I personally think you 2 guys are great for this and other forums others will disagree with me there specially over Garnabby we are all entitled to an opinion
but i personally would love to see you 2 guys kiss and make up lol well maybe leave the kiss part out

I think its called irresolvable differences. In Garnabbys eyes if you sell your wares you are suddenly a scammer. You should be perfectly willing to work 16 hours a day for free. $50 a month is exorbitant. Teaching Golf is fine I guess, or Tennis, or Math or whatever. But Baccarat or BJ, no. That automatically makes you a scammer. Its fine for Garnabby to get a salary for selling his wares but anyone else is a scammer. John, you are selling a method. You are therefore a Scammer. How's it feel? Join the club. Irresolvable differences. That's Garnabby's great contribution. I see no others.

"The more you know about a subject the more likely you are to become a teacher." Ever hear that before Garnabby? Obviously some scammer said it.

Well said John. You'll be getting teaching experience real quick though. Be prepared for lots of questions. Just always put yourself in the shoes of someone hearing of Baccarat for the first time. That includes about 90% of the U.S. You'll get questions like "What's a score card?" or What's the B stand for?

Patience is a virtue.

Garnabby,

It's not a surprise that the con-artists roll in the same circle, congratulate each other, and find witty, intelligent, and effective ways to defend themselves. Don't take it personal.....just keep making your statements and defending the truth.....no matter what they say.

NO system sold or given away works in the long run for baccarat,...period. Whether the system is given away in return for hugs, kisses, 'time', a pat on the back....OR money. It's still bullshit. Period. Simple. No argument. I've been a die hard baccarat player for years.....I am the only person I know, amongst TONS of high roller and low roller baccarat players who actually created a system that carefully turned $30k into $450k in less than 2 years....and you know what? That system lost!!!.....hundreds of thousands of dollars have come and gone.....come and gone....not all of it was gambled...no, a small portion of it was spent on other "systems". The game is pre-set random.....PRE-SET R A N D O M.....do you folks understand the chaotic, UNPREDICATBLE, nature of PRE-SET R A N D O M? With....YES I QUOTE...."LACED DECKS".....do you know what that means?

It means you can create a system that wins 100000 shoes....and will lose the next 200000 shoes.....no matter what. Yes....it's 50/50 over infinity....since no one lives infinitely, you'll be caught in random spurts of 30/70, 20/80, 60/40, etc. etc. RANDOM spurts...RANDOM spurts....someone please tell me they understand the meaning of "RANDOM"....please...lol

Go ahead....buy the system....give money to a person who doesn't know, or does know and is lying to you, that their system is the same as any other system ever created for baccarat....worthless. And don't try that silly, lame defense "Getting money in return is the same as getting 'time' in return"....C'mon john1234,...you think EVERYONE here is an airhead?....lol

Hey, don't get me wrong....maybe he created a system that will work.....FOR NOW......if you can afford to? Buy it, make loads off of it, and trash it, .....as you should do with all garbage.

And careful....as garnabby pointed out..ANYONE with money, can purchase a PUBLICLY sold system....whether it's on a "secret" forum or not...use your imagination...you don't think the casino....that makes BILLIONS a year, has NO ONE, on the take, simply to just SIFT out supposed "systems" created online? And then run back to the casino suggesting ways to beat that system? C'mon....you guys have to have some sort of imagination right?......

You have contributed absolutely nothing...

You think you figured out my system? I guarantee you that you haven't come anywhere close....in fact...I challenge you to post what you THINK my system was....and if you are right...I will say yes,...if you are wrong, I will post the real system I created.

Yes, continue with your baseless plight as a con-artist. You know as well as I do, that your system is as worthless as any created....and CANNOT win in the long run...anyone who buys your system is the actual idiot......you? Of course you're not an idiot...so I won't go low and be petty enough to call you an idiot when you are actually intelligent. Intelligent enough to know how easy it is to convince someone that you have a winning system, that really can win in the long run and someone can actually earn a living with. How much money have you made with your system? How long have you been using it? A few months? 1 year? And you think that is a winning system? You've got to be kidding me....

How many shoes have you tested it on? 1000? 10,000? And you really think it's a long term-winner and worth selling? You've got to be kidding me....

Fair warning....ANY system sold, is worthless garbage. Period.

I'm not selfish enough to post my system without being FOR SURE, it was a long term winner.....no matter how much money it made me. I don't care who disliked me after I decided not to post it...or who I "lead on".....in the bigger picture...I saved people from losing money....whether or not I am liked or disliked, means nothing to me. No one lost money with the garbage I used for TWO years...I repeat...TWO years, that made me hundreds of thousands of dollars....that NO LONGER works....Have you ever been barred from a casino John? I bet not.....

That's what happens when you are REALLY winning consistently...I've been barred from tons of casinos....because I made an AMAZING system....but guess what? The odds turned on me, the house showed it's ugly face FINALLY, as I was stupid enough to believe it would EVENTUALLY wouldn't do....and my system no longer works.

Get real john1234....delete your posts...go back to the rock you crawled under, and stop trying to scam HARD working....SERIOUS people who REALLY want an honest way to make money. Unless you are accepting my challenge...if not? Good riddance.......

People....listen to this and drill it into your head...NO system sold, given, created, works in the long run. PERIOD! ....Goodness...I am only trying to help here because I have been through it ALL...and I'm sure many have....listen...because a system works, does not mean it is a long term winner....even if it beats 20000 shoes...that doesn't mean it will beat 100000 shoes...or even 2000000 shoes....you guys have to understand how the math of RANDOM really works. And the chaos it creates as it EVER changes. John1234 is smart enough to know this...yet he is selling a winning system...this is why I am calling him a con-artist.

I know you've come to my defense...that is well noted, whether I say it is or not, so don't assume otherwise. But that does not rule out the fact that you have now resorted to selling a "winning" system. No where in my post did I say any system is expected to win every game....obviously by winning system, I mean, winning overall. Which I will again say is not possible. I am not close minded....but no matter how open minded you are....if you are created with the inability to jump, you cannot jump...no matter how CLOSE you get to eventually jumping,....you just cannot jump. Some things were created with a set of rules....and these rules cannot be broken.....they can be "stretched"...they can be "slightly altered", the illusions of change can always seem great in the "short run"....and the short run only. Baccarat was created with a set a rules....this isn't real life I'm talking about where the rules are so BROAD, ....man can accomplish almost anything...I am talking about a mathematically, virtually BULLET-PROOF design called baccarat. Even if you win 95% of the first 1000000 games you play....you can and WILL lose 95 or MORE of the next 2000000 games you play...that is the math of the game. You add in the commissions and it's epic fail. No offense.

I have become apart of this community when I felt I could win in baccarat....just because I am using my valuable "time" now to defend potential gamblers against the "snake" you have become in selling your system, does not mean I am "wasting" my time. My time is being used constructively now. I am not being negative....would you say a person that aggressively warns a noticeably defenseless elderly woman from going down a dark alley, that this person knows for sure has vicious thugs lingering in, ignorant of the fact that this elderly woman is a martial arts master, .......is negative? I doubt it. So I am NOT being negative, by stating facts about all systems for baccarat.

You figured out my system....which you confidently called "stupid"...and stated "I don't see how you thought it was a winner"....

Now...you're "not sure if you have it"...?

And this is the unstable mind you want someone to purchase a baccarat system from?

Take your system and make money off of it....and/or give it away to the people you supposedly want to "contribute" to, and stop trying to rip people off.

I don't care if you spent years on it....it's a gambling system....the very terms "gambling" and "system" mixed together instantly spell foolishness...and explain EXACTLY part of the reason why casinos are evil, corrupt, and bullet proof operations.

This is not only directed to you john....but anyone selling a system on this forum....or anywhere else. I will intentionally find time in my day, to speak out against system sellers...because they are ALL con-artists, toting GARBAGE......

Yes, of course, this is what every con-artist saids....

"Why even try? It's going to take too big of an effort to stop all of us....so just accept us, and avoid us"....Something discouraging. lol.

I am in the usa, and I am NOT a sheeple. And I repeat, if you are going to ridicule my OBVIOUS exaggerations about the math of baccarat and the fact that NO system will win in the long run....please...you are making this argument easy for me....

What is your agenda here anyway? I've already stated what I'm going to do....speak out against con-artists....infinitely. You've already said you're deleting your posts and leaving....so leave....Sure, I know the current state of the government, the us,....pitch forks aren't enough trust me....but that has nothing to do with you selling garbage to innocent people. I can afford to lose a lot of money....most people can't. Why will I waste my time posting against cons such as yourself....and speaking out against evil governments?.....because I honestly, and infinitely don't see it as a waste of time. I can't physically stop anyone from buying your system...but I will not shut up and let them buy it without putting the TRUTH about all baccarat systems here.... Granted I still go to casinos,...for fun, with my wife and my friends. I don't avoid baccarat...I just know, if I win a few hundred? It's PURE luck, and I walk away/...or just enjoy the game.... Simple....

Bottom line, ....you know systems don't work in the long run...and you're selling one....that makes you a con-artist. Whether you mean to be one or not.

Still leaving the forum to go rip people off in a new snake pit john? Or must you stay here and defend your system...so at least you can rip SOME people off here....

There are bigger problems? My man...solving the worlds problems means attacking them all.......snakes like you, choose to do things under the radar...thinking it's ok if you just rip a few people off and go unnoticed. Leonard benson feels the same way.

Again, another trait of a petty, ignorant con-artist....taking my statements about ALL baccarat systems personal. All baccarat systems made to win in the long run are garbage....period. They are only short term advantages that will eventually take back the profits...and very likely, more money. Your system is not an exception. You're not garbage personally...unless you continue to rip people off....whether you do it ignorantly, or with the knowledge that your system will not win long term.

Again...another trait of a con-artist. Too petty and immature to not see past "name calling" to actual facts that define the actions of a person.

If you sell something, that you know is faulty, then you are a con-artist. It is not name calling, I am defining a trait of exactly what you are doing.

Quit being petty, and quit trying to rip people off, and maybe we can debate. I am not pissed off....if I was? I wouldn't still go to the casino....sure, it would help you feel better to say things to me like "Chill out dude"...or "Stop being so pissed off"....or "Your an idiot"...because you know exactly what you are doing...and you know you are wrong.

Or maybe you don't know you are wrong.....and actually think you are doing something right....sociopath maybe? I don't know....

In any case....sure, we can end the debate...but I will stand by my words. All systems fail. I am not pissed....and will continue to enjoy the entertainment of the casino....obviously I can afford every loss I took....but I will NOT keep quiet when I see an obvious con. End of story.

Shall we continue?...

When I first started I posted a lot....talking about my system and my experiences....I absolutely would not post my system until I was for sure it was a long term winner...no matter how many people I got excited....I chose to disappoint, rather than have people lose money....

You are being immature...I don't see how this could be the mind that people want to purchase a winning system from.

This is an example. This is not an insult....I am defining your actions. Every time I define your actions....you take it as an insult. All traits of a con-artist. If you are unaware that you are conning? Traits of perhaps a sociopath?

You still think I am "name calling"? Then....this conversation is lost...as much as you are. For the most part, people are too petty and too immature to accept reality and criticism about themselves....that's part of the reason humanity is doomed for failure....but that's another entire topic due on a different forum....good luck john,....

But don't think for a second I won't speak out against your attempt to sell a baccarat system... That is my job....

If you kill someone intentionally, you are a killer, no matter how you feel. If you are six feet tall, you are six feet tall, no matter how you feel.

Quit being petty. And quit trying to tote garbage for sale.

I don't feel insulted....but you do,...most people that are petty are those who think negatively, people who are ignorant, and con-artists.

Of course not....you are in "honest" mode right now.

You'll be toting your garbage again soon enough.

No one has the right to be insulted...but if you feel insulted...you are obviously doing something wrong.

What's with this "crusade" by members here to rid the world of "scammers"?

If I guy comes in here and starts spamming junk and making outrageous claims with some kind of bizarre stories of winning everything, saving the world, raising the dead and things like that, then by all means, give him the boot. Most of them never come back after the first spam pass anyway.

John1234 came in here, helped out, guided, tested and ADDED VALUABLE CONTENT to this open board and a few of the private ones.

Calling him a con-artist is about as poor a choice of words as you can come up with.

He has a system he believes it, he plays it and is selling it. I don't see any evidence of him spamming the boards or making trouble.

I have a viable system that I play with. I like it. It is winning but I have no intention of selling it.

We're both players. We both believe in our methods but only one elects to sell. If that bothers you, don't buy it!

There may actually be many lurking members who think he is on to something and would like to try it or test it. It may be hard to believe but there are people who actually collect systems, merely for the entertainment value.

Why am I posting this? I think neverdie14 is a bit out of line and just wanted to add my 2 cents as I've got the time to do it for a change.

AD

If you sell a "baccarat system" you are a con-artist.

Anyone selling a baccarat system is fully aware of the nature of baccarat,...otherwise they wouldn't have or been able to create a system....

I've made a system that is a probably (not saying guaranteed) 100% more profitable than whatever you're selling....and I never sold it....

Why? I'm not a con-artist. I know the nature of gambling....and a system will not work long term...

If you continue to tote your scams where I know you are toting them, I will say something....