Thread: The Shoe Thread

The idea of this thread is to provide a central location for shoes so that a wide variety of shoes can be easily found and used in whatever way (analysis, practice etc...)

Here's 6 of mine

Geez John, you just got finished saying everything is random. So whats the difference? Dublinbet is live games. He said they came from Dublinbet. Australia has computer access to Ireland. So what is your complaint? Or do you simply complain no matter what? It's just a shoe library. How can you complain about a shoe library? How's the ink color. Is that OK?

Originally Posted by Ellis

Geez John, you just got finished saying everything is random. So whats the difference? Dublinbet is live games. He said they came from Dublinbet. Australia has computer access to Ireland. So what is your complaint? Or do you simply complain no matter what? It's just a shoe library. How can you complain about a shoe library? How's the ink color. Is that OK?

have to agreee with Ellis here a shoe is a shoe is a shoe live dealt at DB or Crown casino what difference does it make only 6 decks at DB tho

Originally Posted by John

Amazing, your suppose to be in Melborne, recently claimed to have played and won there (using Ellis methodolgy of course, there is no other way). Yet post score cards which are not used at the Crown, in fact the shoes come from an on-line betting shop.

a) I used Ellis's stuff because I couldn't find anything better. Never have I claimed that they were amazing. In fact if you look carefully, you'll see that I stated: ... won significantly overall but I actually quit (read: was losing) more shoes than I won. Could you please point me towards a better system? (in PM, let's not derail the thread)

b) I made the score cards myself, do you want me to upload them too? I could probably improve them a bit and upload a v2 as well.

c) I didn't stay for a full shoe at any of my games at crown, so I haven't got any complete shoes from there.

In crown I played on the $10 table, so min 10, and the max was 500 iirc. It was a nice variant of baccarat where you didn't have to pay any commission on banker bets and you won 2x your bet if your side won on an 8 or 9 on the third card (this happened quite a lot on my three bets, I'd get +6 on those, lucky I guess). There were dragon side bets. The shuffling was done by some machine, iirc the dealer then did something with a blank card that was placed in by one of the players. I don't remember where the cage was, I just remember walking the wrong way to get my money from it.

I'm still looking forward to that PM from you with a better system.

It would be very easy for me to be annoyed and quit over my treatment here, but I'm going to chose to think that you and Garnabby are just suspicious. I think I've answered all your concerns about me and I'd appreciate if you have further questions that you would please PM me.

No commission on Banker win? Perhaps it's a more dangerous game to play otherwise how casino earn the money?

ayuinca: It's half payout if banker wins on 6. I think that's the replacement for commission.

Oh, that is the rule then. Ok, then when Banker wins on 6:x(x is the Player value 0,1,2,3,4,5) there are 312,658,895,192,064 combinations which is 14.017% of the total Banker win combination. If it only payout half, i.e. 50% commission on Banker wins 6, then the overall average commisson on Banker win is 7%. Good for the casino! Find a system you won't play Banker wins on 6 then you are the boss.

Originally Posted by ayuinca

Find a system you won't play Banker wins on 6 then you are the boss.

The game-symmetry of that proposition requires that the player avoid also the player-holding winning on a six?

yeh, thats the same way they use in skycity auckland. heaps better than commission i reckon!

Originally Posted by ayuinca

No commission on Banker win? Perhaps it's a more dangerous game to play otherwise how casino earn the money?

Casinos don't need commission. They win at the published rate of 26% of the drop in Las Vegas. That is 26% of your buy in money. That is their real profits. Commission is just a pittance compared to that.

Horseshoe L.V. eliminated commission altogether for a while. Their overall Bac profits actually increased because they got more play. They then went to a 4% of Bank wins commission due to complaints from other casinos.

Watch the game for a while. You will quickly see that the avg. player loses far more than commission. Bac is, by far, the most profitable table game in the casino, for the casino. BJ is a distant second at only 15% of the drop.

Commission amounts to 1.25% of the money bet. Casinos could not afford to deal the game for commission only.

Casinos rely on the fact that, overall, players play stupid.

I had to go back a bit to find this thread but let's see if we can get some baccarat shoes posted up here for the troops to run their own system tests on. Let's try to keep it to LIVE dealt shoes. No RNG play here, please and NO Zumma stuff. Try to detail where the shoe was played for reference.

Here's tonight's shoe from Black Orchid's live dealt tables from around 9pm. It played very well against my system play.

Test it against your system.

Black Orchid - May 24, 2010

PPPBP PBBBB BPPPB BPBBB
PPBPP BBPPB BPBBP PPBPP
BBBPP BBPPP BPPBB P

AD that shoe could have been simple FTL..but i like waiting on monstorous streaks for parlay success( back up dbls)..heres tnite live 8 deck.. auto shuffle..
T
B
PPPP
BBBBBB
PPPPPPTTP
B
P
BBB
PP
B
P
B
P
B
p
BB
PP
B
PP
B
P
BBB
PPP
B
P
B
P
BB
P
B
PP
BBBBBB
PP
B
P
BTTBB
P

Originally Posted by pitty1

AD that shoe could have been simple FTL..but i like waiting on monstorous streaks for parlay success( back up dbls

Those shoes could have been played in any of several different ways to produce a profit. The reason they are being posted is so that others can try their own systems on them, from real tables, to see if they're moving in the right direction.

Hopefully people will play them out "in order" and not look at the entire shoe and then decided how they'll play it.

If only it would be that easy, eh?

AD

Pitty1,

Well, how about this one from this afternoon's session at BetPhoenix.

Talk about your monster run, and in Player of all things!!!

Bet Phoenix May 25th 2010 3pm

BBBPB PBBPB BPBBB PBBPP
PBPBB PPBBB BPBPB PBBBB
PBPPP PPPPP PPPPP PPPPP (Yep, that's 18 players in a row!)
BBBPB B


For those of you running the E-Factor it looks like this:

B311121213122
P111224111114
P11(18)3111


AD

This is for Ellis. You state that all shoe events will average out after hundreds or thousands of shoes which is inescapable. But you also stated that back in the 80's most shoes contained long unusual streaks of straights and it was easy pickens. I'm not sure what you said about Zig Zags though. So where were the choppy smaller runs shoes back then to average out the events if most shoes would be consumed with long streaks of straights? Quite contradictory, so which is it?

Originally Posted by pitty1

AD that shoe could have been simple FTL..but i like waiting on monstorous streaks for parlay success( back up dbls)..heres tnite live 8 deck.. auto shuffle..
T
B jump 1w
PPPP jump 3L
BBBBBB streak 4w 1l
PPPPPPTTP sk 5w 1l
B s 1l
P s2l
BBB j 3l
PP s w1 1l
B j 1w
P j1w
B 1w
P 1w
B 1w
p j1 w
BB j 1w
PP j 1w
B 1w
PP 1w
B 1w
P 1w
BBB j 3l
PPP s 2w 1l
B 1l
P 2l
B 1w
P 1w
BB 1w
P 1w
B 1w
PP 1w
BBBBBB j 3l
PP s 1w 1l
B s1l
P s2l
BTTBB j3l
P

total 34 w 26 lose jump ,jump streak ,streak

Originally Posted by Plasia

The idea of this thread is to provide a central location for shoes so that a wide variety of shoes can be easily found and used in whatever way (analysis, practice etc...)

Here's 6 of mine

thx