The Price of Keeping Secrets

[garnabby]

Today, 02:06 PM
ADulay
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Posts: 39


Re: The Price of Keeping Secrets
I'm thinking Plasia won this one.

AD

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#35
Today, 02:15 PM
samjohnson
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Posts: 8


Re: The Price of Keeping Secrets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasia
That thread you pointed to is 5 months old (not even on the front page, in fact it's deep in the 3rd page), had no directly accessible shoes and a less than epic 1 reply.

There's another Shoe thread in the Baccarat Discussion section, maybe this is the one Garnabby was referring to:

The Shoe Thread

__________________________________________________ _____________

This just gets easier and easier, winnowing the chaff from the grain.

Were Plasia interested in the better organization of this (already-great, in my opinion) board, he should've directed his specific suggestions (other than of "secrets kept", losing baccarat-systems, etc, etc,) specifically to Mike, the admin, by a PM, or in a more-aptly named post.

Instead he also chose to start another thread about shoes, which already existed (, and was well replied to at the time, and asfaras i could reply.) Had he shown some simple organizational skill by doing so, that previous thread of the same topic would no longer be on the 3rd page, or with only a "less-than-epic" single response from myself. Indeed, all of Plasia's "plight's" would then have been spared from the rest of us.

But i doubt Mike is going to make a "skicky" out of all the good pages of topical treads here, or in the social groups; or of just Plasia's, LOL. No other (successful) forum does that because the present plays as important a role as the past... there will always be just-as-important new topical threads.

And which better place to set up one's own open/closed forum than the social groups here... all of which are completely-open, to anyone who looks, or asks those moderators to take the time to admit them. Plasia could set up even one solely for shoes, and the "testing" of. (But alas, more excuses?)

ADulay, what has he won? (True thinking involves some explanation.) Specifically, perhaps we require more thinking, and less "testing"; and generally, fewer fancy cars and degrees to know who's "a real person"?

Anyway, the more of this "stuff" i see, the more convinced i am of the value of my own contributions (as much to myself as anyone else, thank the Lord above), and of Mike's foresight in setting up this board, itself. However, i'm beginning to realize that the best parts of that, and anyone's, ought to be "kept secret". That was the part of all of this i had to discover for myself here. (But if you can't believe in the occasional typo... after all, the 'i' is pretty close to the 'u' on the keyboard; or find it easier to try to find fault with someone's every point, then you can as easily dismiss even the possibility that they may have already beaten the game with no further sharing required.)

Thanks for the "help", Plasia... i couldn't have found a more appropriate thread (for this) after all. And sorry for my own "misspellings", "silliness", etc, Ellis, et al... i'm sure youze will all become a "rich" by those some day, LOL.

God, i love this board.

[ADulay]

Originally Posted by garnabby

ADulay, what has he won?

Interesting question. I didn't think it was important and as nobody has actually asked me but for the record, I've won my last 13 shoes in a real casino with real money. I generally go down there twice a month and I'm planning on another trip on the 4th.

I'm not really sure why I've been included in this discussion but for the time being, I'll graciously drop out of it and you can continue whichever way you decide.

AD

[ADulay]

John,

Was that for me? If so, it's incorrect information.

I never said the first statement and I've posted up at least three of my previously winning (for me) methods of system play in this forum.

If it was for someone else, I'll promptly pull this message.

AD

[garnabby]

Originally Posted by ADulay

John,

Was that for me? If so, it's incorrect information.

I never said the first statement and I've posted up at least three of my previously winning (for me) methods of system play in this forum.

If it was for someone else, I'll promptly pull this message.

AD

I missed John's reply here, but this just gets to the heart of another matter on these boards... who said/meant which.

The more one writes, the more there is to agree/disagree with, or to read something else into. Nor can one can say everything in one post/reply. We wake up tomorrow thinking, "Gee, i didn't make myself clear enough, didn't write some part of it out fully or with the appropriate words/spellings."

All that is okay, in my opinion, long as it's sorted out before the "touchy-feely" (personal) character accusations begin, or someone has something for sale/separate emails/donations, etc. (The ones who have "been around a while" have learned most of the nuances. Eg, "stickies" are more about the administrative, and procedural, then the (day-to-day) topical, so an administrator/moderator could only bias, and conceptually limit his/her board by turning the topical into the "sticky"... besides, a lot of stickies become an "eye-sore" for the regulars.)

ADulay, looks like John took his post down.

[Ellis]

Now, now guys, don't be knocking Garnabby. He's the best salesman I've got! Hey Garn, thanks for the business!

[Ellis]

Ya'll seem to have completely lost focus on who the enemy is. The casino is the enemy, not the other players.

If ya'll could get back to talking Baccarat you might get posts that are friendly and correctly focused like this post I just got on my forum.

"Hi guys, welcome back!
PJ, I take these days to complete my testing on TBL+:
I played 40 shoes live, mostly mechanically, at DublinBet and BlackOrchid.
Here are the numbers:
+169 units (+4.2/shoe bef.comm.)
+85% of winning shoes
the 6 losers shoes ended at -2, -6x4, -7.
max winn. +13
Comments:
I think that's good for a system that plays mostly flat and really low risk.
In my opinion, as I played a lot of shoes lately, is that with some practicing is possible to improve these results, maybe working on money management, assuming some more risks as trade-off.
I'm really interested in details of your latest experience "on the field" with TBL+; I've got the impression (just an impression) that it works better in some casinos than others; IE at BlackOrchid I'm doing better than DublinBet.
????????????
andrea"

Now, can any of you guys do THAT flat betting? Hell no. Why not? Well, take a look at your discussion. Anybody here want to get back to focusing on winning at Baccarat. Try my private forum. You'll NEVER see an unkind word spoken. NEVER! And the focus is Baccarat, not childish insults. beatthecasino.com

[garnabby]

Originally Posted by John

Garnabby the more you post trying to come across as clever, the more stupid you look.

john,

I think a little clarification here (from you) would be in order.

Besides that, i think that personal "attack" (lacking professional specifics) to be a bit ridiculous.



sillE,

The casinos, and their shills (such as yourself), are the "enemy" if and only if one chooses to play their "games".

[Ellis]

I guess that means for sure you don't play. I had suspected that. So I guess your advice to all is don't play??? That figures.

[Ellis]

BTW the abbreviation for Arkansas is AR. AK is Alaska. That's a little North of me.

[garnabby]

Originally Posted by Ellis

BTW the abbreviation for Arkansas is AR. AK is Alaska. That's a little North of me.

To whom are you referring? I don't recall writing either abbreviation. (Maybe you're reading one of my quotes of yourself?)

Originally Posted by Ellis

I guess that means for sure you don't play. I had suspected that. So I guess your advice to all is don't play??? That figures.

sillE, even you're not the "enemy"... one must be selective in this world because can't fight'em all. Why are you worth anything here, let alone that implied level of attention, respect, etc? No one but a fool is going to waste a life of lossing "with you" at the casinos.

Just wondering... are you the only one still here who's done that, wasted a life as a "casino-clown"/scammer? Maybe you should take your own advice above, given how you play, if you have any good years left in you?

Anyway, keep up the "good work" here trying to "pin something" ridiculous (that only your "gang" of idiots, and the other "trouble-makers" here, could understand) on me, and the others... we need some "forum-clowns" to keep things light.

[garnabby]

Originally Posted by Archer

The implication here is that you have a Bacc book that was written 25 years ago. Pray tell - the title, copyright date and where can we get it?

More than an implication, but like every other single question put to Ellis... no proper reply. (Even having published something means NOTHING because an "author" could have agreed to buy the first so many copies, etc.)

[Ellis]

You are accusing me of dodging questions? That's a first.

The question was Do you play or not? I see a bunch of BS you wrote but no answer. Talk about dodging questions.

I didn't accuse you of an incorrect abbreviation Garnabby. I never mentioned your name. But somebody got it wrong. look above right.

Archer, you seem to forget you aren't speaking to me. Your promise, not mine. My first Bac book did $667,000 in sales in the first two weeks. Since by then I had learned to do my own publishing.....

My BJ books did several million but I only got 15% of the first one and 50% of the second one. A complete waste of time? Yeah, sure Garnabby. I got 100% of the third one and 100% of all ten Bac books.

The first several chapters of my first two BJ books are posted on my public forum Garn. Yes, all my books of course have ISBN numbers and are fully copyrighted. You think nobody ever wrote a book before?

Buy my own books? Where's the profit in that? That would be clinically stupid.

So Garnabby, if you don't play what the hell are you doing here? You The Great Pretender or some such nonsense? Or is it just a good platform to insult people from? That your life's work? Don't knock age Garnabby. You're just knocking your future self.

[Ellis]

Here's another point of view. Hey Garn, wouldn't you rather be getting posts like this, speaking of answering questions. Got this today.

Re: Trip Report Ellis Dec1, 09
An open letter to all members,

I've been here about two weeks now and if everyone doesn't know it already let me point it out that Ellis is a human TREASURE. I am amazed at how he can disect patterns while playing a shoe. His mind sees things that mine doesn't. He turns losers into winners and winners into bigger winners. I have not had the honor of meeting him but I will be making a point to do that in the near future.

In a world of scammers, phonies and theives, Ellis is someone that comes along once in a lifetime. This man takes our phone calls when we need him. This is unheard of folks. It's almost too good to be true. Thank you sir for being the real deal and for who you are. I have two sons ages 3 and 10 years old who your knowledge will be passed on to in the future. The biggest gift you can give someone in life is knowledge. Thanks for sharing your gift with us.

Brian

[garnabby]

Originally Posted by Ellis

The first several chapters of my first two BJ books are posted on my public forum Garn. Yes, all my books of course have ISBN numbers and are fully copyrighted.

LOL.

For a "human treasure", sillE, you're pretty "slow"... don't forget i called you, and as proved in this very forum, also: a coward who can't stand on his own two feet in his own "backyard" against even, eg, a "great pretender" such as myself; a pathological liar; a consistent loser by the worst-possible mindless systems; a "motor-mouth" with no life, who makes up fairy-tale autobiographies, car-stories, etc; etc.

Maybe someone should give that (fictitious?) Brian a heads-ups like Joeystyle received? Makes me "shudder" to think of the few who still seem to find their ways to the BTC forums.

Originally Posted by Ellis

So Garnabby, if you don't play what the hell are you doing here? You The Great Pretender or some such nonsense? Or is it just a good platform to insult people from? That your life's work? Don't knock age Garnabby. You're just knocking your future self.

Nobody (but you) is "knocking" anything, certainly not not other persons, or their ages... just trying to explain to you that you have to try to keep things in perspective, as most things aren't black-and-white "enemies or not". After all, it's very refreshing when someone can impart some of their non-casino experiences... and one has to have some (real) life-experiences to base such on. (Something of which you seem to have none, because every time we get started in one direction or another, you come back at me with more of the above intentional nonsense. In fact, if you spent as much time on your junky systems as with the "hand-holding" posts, nay, those would still be junk.)

sillE, you or anyone else may think of me as youze choose. I don't have "anything to prove"... not selling, promoting, teaching, etc, anything. I'm my own man, already know my place in the world, and am quite satisfied to continue on for now.

P.S. Maybe if you ask Mike politely, he'll delete some of my more pertinent replies to you... as that Grab guy wound up doing?

[Ellis]

Yeah, well, whatever Garn. Yet another totally nonsensical post that has nothing whatever to do with Baccarat or beating casinos which is the sole purpose people come here. Then they have to listen to your total crap that has nothing to do with the subject at hand: Winning at Baccarat. That is what the name of your forum implies. But they soon find out that the fearless leader here, YOU, neither plays the game nor has any conception of how to beat it. You simply declare the game unbeatable. That's not what they came here to hear. The name of this forum should be changed to Anti Baccarat Forums.

Meanwhile, during all your crap, in fact because of it, your best members are leaving you for my forum like rats off a sinking ship. Who can blame them? You drive them away.

You guys that still remain here. You might try joining your mates on my forum. The first thing you'll learn is that this game is, in fact, beatable. You'll read the posts of those who have beat it. Group trip reports galore. Be ready for some hard work because it ain't easy. But plenty of guys straight from this forum have learned to win almost overnight and have posted the shoes to prove it on my forum. Get out of the doldrums of these losers. You'll like the fresh air and sunshine. We win! These idiots don't even play. Don't dare. Hey, I put my money where my mouth is. I play right along side of you. Either I teach you to win or I'll personally give you your money back. You find a better deal than that, take it! $50 a month or $500 lifetime.

Ellis
beatthecasino.com

[garnabby]

Originally Posted by Ellis

Yeah, well, whatever Garn. Yet another totally nonsensical post that has nothing whatever to do with Baccarat or beating casinos which is the sole purpose people come here. Then they have to listen to your total crap that has nothing to do with the subject at hand: Winning at Baccarat. That is what the name of your forum implies. But they soon find out that the fearless leader here, YOU, neither plays the game nor has any conception of how to beat it. You simply declare the game unbeatable. That's not what they came here to hear. The name of this forum should be changed to Anti Baccarat Forums.

Meanwhile, during all your crap, in fact because of it, your best members are leaving you for my forum like rats off a sinking ship. Who can blame them? You drive them away.

You guys that still remain here. You might try joining your mates on my forum. The first thing you'll learn is that this game is, in fact, beatable. You'll read the posts of those who have beat it. Group trip reports galore. Be ready for some hard work because it ain't easy. But plenty of guys straight from this forum have learned to win almost overnight and have posted the shoes to prove it on my forum. Get out of the doldrums of these losers. You'll like the fresh air and sunshine. We win! These idiots don't even play. Don't dare. Hey, I put my money where my mouth is. I play right along side of you. Either I teach you to win or I'll personally give you your money back. You find a better deal than that, take it! $50 a month or $500 lifetime.

Ellis
beatthecasino.com

What's wrong, sillE... still can't answer to even the non-baccarat questions, lies, etc?

Why then should anyone believe the rest?

P.S. "Don't go away mad, like the other losers." But like those who have properly realized that baccarat, or any other casino-game, may not be their "cup of tea"... w/o wasting a lot of time, energy, money, etc on persons such as yourself, and the casinos, whichever. The truly great forums, players, etc, never thrived (in the end) on the "transients" approach anyway. So i'd rather spend my time here with the more-critical students of the this game in particular, and those with broader ranges of interest in general... but that's just me. (Like i wrote on your forum a long time ago, "You do catch more flies with honey, but then what are you left with?".)

[Ellis]

Garnabby, if you could write a legible, logical post that is respondable, I would respond. But you choose to write these rambling, off subject, nonsensical posts that nobody can respond to or even decipher any meaning from. You seem to write purposfully abstract posts and then criticize people for not responding. Its as if you're afraid somebody will understand you. For instance here you seem to be calling your members dead flys. Then you wonder why they leave. I can't believe that was your intention. If Baccarat is not your cup of tea, that's fine but what in the world are you doing on a Baccarat Forum???

[Ellis]

Garnabby, I see on your forum that you have contributed 353 mostly nonsensical posts (from what I've seen).

By contrast, on my forum I am just now passing 3000 educational posts.
I've responded to 18,000 Emails
6000 PMs and 6000 phone calls averaging about 100 Emails PMs and phone calls per day, 7 days a week all answering questions.

Then you accuse me of not answering questions.

Then you wonder why I keep saying you have no idea of what you are talking about.

In addition I've written 13 Bac or BJ books and have conducted hundreds of training and sales seminars along with their corresponding live casino exhibitions.

On the other hand you cop out by declaring casinos unbeatable W/O an ounce of proof or credentials backing you up.

Well if you believe casinos are unbeatable then they ARE - for you.

OH yeah, that only covers my new Bac/BJ forum
To arrive at the corresponding numbers on my old Bac/BJ forum you'd need to multiply by 15.

[Ellis]

That covers over 5000 students. Out of those ONE asked for (and received) his money back. He then tried every other forum including yours. And guess what, he rejoined mine and is now a lifetime member in good standing. You get what you pay for.

[Ellis]

I remember when you were looking for a way to beat this game. But you shunned all advice preferring to criticize and ridicule those trying to give you advice and do it all on your own. Then you give up almost immediately W/O even giving it half an effort and declared the game unbeatable. Because YOU couldn't figure it out in 5 minutes. Garnabby, its just not that easy to go it alone. If it were, the casinos would have gone broke a long time ago. But the game IS, in fact, beatable. Plenty of dedicated people from right here on your very forum have proven that to themselves in spite of all your efforts to discourage them. These people aren't lying en masse as you propose. Damn, they are posting their actual casino shoes witnessed by plenty of other members who were playing in the same games. We all KNOW how we all scored. We were there. One time, one game YOU were there too. But you prefer to erase that from memory because it just didn't agree with your distorted view of the world. Garnabby, nobody is lying. We go out of our way to be totally factual with each other.

Garnabby, Your own members are greatly relieved to get out from under your spell and see the world as it actually is. They found that winning just requires a little steerage in the right direction. Some are now winning every trip and some of those nearly every shoe. All W/O betting more than 2. You'd be amazed at how quickly they discard you and your rantings. You need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Its a fine idea you have of discrediting the scammers. BUT you need to be a player to know who the scammers are. You have no idea. You'd need three lifetimes to expose as many scammers as I have. But only players are elegible to do that. The rest is a figment of your imagination.

All of your members, save one, are still registered here and can freely read all I have written here. If I haven't told the exact truth I invite them one and all to come here and say so.

[thebaccaratkid]

Originally Posted by Ellis

Second, one of our players, Paul Starr has been a full time professional for many years. Paul strictly flat bets $300 units on shoe trends based on all three Disparities. Paul, who I've played with many times, has the highest hands won rate I ever heard of. Paul has averaged 57% for nine years. I don't think random occurrence can begin to account for his play record.

At last a record of a very successful flat better!!

[Archer]

Originally Posted by thebaccaratkid

At last a record of a very successful flat better!!

Yeah, ain't that something!

Ellis is anecdotally making the case for Bacc being non-random. Did Ellis conveniently leave out the number of decisions? Nine years has greater impact for sure. Nevertheless, the question of randomness remains and likely won't be decided on this forum unless we all agree to submit live data and agree on who and how to test it. But more importantly assuming that the game is non-random we still have two problems: the amount of deviation and predictability of that deviation. If the deviation is too slight then the pont is moot; if unpredictable then the fact worthless.

Archer

[scot]

Originally Posted by Ellis

Second, one of our players, Paul Starr has been a full time professional for many years. Paul strictly flat bets $300 units on shoe trends based on all three Disparities. Paul, who I've played with many times, has the highest hands won rate I ever heard of. Paul has averaged 57% for nine years. I don't think random occurrence can begin to account for his play record.

When you stated 'all three disparities', what do you mean by that? Thanks.

Scott