BaccaratForums.com  

Baccarat Online Discussion Forums


Baccarat Forums
Baccarat Casinos
Acronyms
Bookstore
Advertise
Contact
online casinos
Latest Forum Topics
Playersonly.com Casino

Go Back   BaccaratForums.com > Baccarat Forums Discussion > Shooting the Breeze


Shooting the Breeze This is where the action is for all people interested in anything baccarat related. Anything goes, seriously. Come meet and network with your peers, it's a fun way to take a break out of your busy day.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-13-2009, 05:38 PM
BaccaratForums Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Favorite Casino: Bogart Casino
Posts: 12
Default EZ Baccarat Lawsuit - Talisman Group vs DEQ Systemes

I always find these casino lawsuits interesting. A card game that is so old yet lawsuits about one company allegedly stealing another company's idea on a baccarat game. But hey, I'm no lawyer so I don't know the details, maybe trademarks/copyrights are involved? Here's the news report:

A lawsuit has been filed in a dispute between two companies involved in selling baccarat systems to casinos.

Attorneys for the Talisman Group LLC of Las Vegas filed suit Friday in federal court in Las Vegas against DEQ Systemes Corp. of Quebec, Canada; and subsidiary DEQ-USA Inc. of Las Vegas.

Talisman asserts in its suit it owns a method of playing baccarat that "eliminates the payment of commission" aspect of the game. This has been described as a method of speeding up play.

Talisman says it adopted and has been using the EZ Baccarat and Dragon 7 trademarks in connection with the game. The Dragon 7 system involves a side bet.

DEQ-USA owns a U.S. patent claiming a method of playing baccarat that also eliminates the payment of commission, the suit says.

Talisman says that in 2006, it agreed with DEQ-USA to jointly market EZ Baccarat and split the profits.

The suit charges that without Talisman's knowledge or approval, DEQ Systemes filed trademark applications for registration of the EZ Baccarat mark in various jurisdictions including the United States and Canada.

The suit says DEQ Systemes also has filed trademark applications to register the Dragon 7 mark in various jurisdictions, including Macau.

Talisman says it has demanded the defendants "take remedial action" concerning the card game system.

"Although defendants acknowledged Talisman’s rights in the EZ Baccarat and Dragon 7 marks and agreed to take remedial action, they have failed to do so. Instead, defendants are seeking to hold the EZ Baccarat marks hostage to extract concessions from Talisman," the suit charges.

The suit claims the defendants have attempted to register the EZ Baccarat word and design marks "by false or fraudulent declarations or representations or by false means" and asserts claims of unfair competition.

The suit, filed by attorneys with the Las Vegas office of Lewis and Roca LLP, seeks a judgment that Talisman owns the EZ Baccarat and Dragon 7 trademarks worldwide; and unspecified damages.

An attorney for the defendants declined to comment on the allegations Tuesday, saying settlement talks were under way.

"The parties are currently in amicable discussions to resolve the dispute," Las Vegas attorney Steve Gibson said.

DEQ, which also sells table game bonusing, jackpot and loyalty products, has said in promoting EZ Baccarat that it's equipped with "EZ Trak," an LCD-based hand-tracking system.

"The EZ Baccarat methodology and the Dragon 7 bet were co-created by Robin Powell and TJ Tejeda of the Talisman Group in conjunction with DEQ," DEQ has said in promoting the products.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-21-2009, 12:15 PM
BaccaratForums Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Age: 49
Posts: 714
Default Re: EZ Baccarat Lawsuit - Talisman Group vs DEQ Systemes

Quote:
Originally Posted by samjohnson View Post
I always find these casino lawsuits interesting. A card game that is so old yet lawsuits about one company allegedly stealing another company's idea on a baccarat game. But hey, I'm no lawyer so I don't know the details, maybe trademarks/copyrights are involved? Here's the news report:

A lawsuit has been filed in a dispute between two companies involved in selling baccarat systems to casinos.

Attorneys for the Talisman Group LLC of Las Vegas filed suit Friday in federal court in Las Vegas against DEQ Systemes Corp. of Quebec, Canada; and subsidiary DEQ-USA Inc. of Las Vegas.

Talisman asserts in its suit it owns a method of playing baccarat that "eliminates the payment of commission" aspect of the game. This has been described as a method of speeding up play.

Talisman says it adopted and has been using the EZ Baccarat and Dragon 7 trademarks in connection with the game. The Dragon 7 system involves a side bet.

DEQ-USA owns a U.S. patent claiming a method of playing baccarat that also eliminates the payment of commission, the suit says.

Talisman says that in 2006, it agreed with DEQ-USA to jointly market EZ Baccarat and split the profits.

The suit charges that without Talisman's knowledge or approval, DEQ Systemes filed trademark applications for registration of the EZ Baccarat mark in various jurisdictions including the United States and Canada.

The suit says DEQ Systemes also has filed trademark applications to register the Dragon 7 mark in various jurisdictions, including Macau.

Talisman says it has demanded the defendants "take remedial action" concerning the card game system.

"Although defendants acknowledged Talisman’s rights in the EZ Baccarat and Dragon 7 marks and agreed to take remedial action, they have failed to do so. Instead, defendants are seeking to hold the EZ Baccarat marks hostage to extract concessions from Talisman," the suit charges.

The suit claims the defendants have attempted to register the EZ Baccarat word and design marks "by false or fraudulent declarations or representations or by false means" and asserts claims of unfair competition.

The suit, filed by attorneys with the Las Vegas office of Lewis and Roca LLP, seeks a judgment that Talisman owns the EZ Baccarat and Dragon 7 trademarks worldwide; and unspecified damages.

An attorney for the defendants declined to comment on the allegations Tuesday, saying settlement talks were under way.

"The parties are currently in amicable discussions to resolve the dispute," Las Vegas attorney Steve Gibson said.

DEQ, which also sells table game bonusing, jackpot and loyalty products, has said in promoting EZ Baccarat that it's equipped with "EZ Trak," an LCD-based hand-tracking system.

"The EZ Baccarat methodology and the Dragon 7 bet were co-created by Robin Powell and TJ Tejeda of the Talisman Group in conjunction with DEQ," DEQ has said in promoting the products.
Hi Sam,

A few more things about EZ-Baccarat:

1. Math: The chance of the banker 3-card seven push-on-a-win is from http://www.ezbaccarat.com/ at 0.0225 (Under the math section). Therefore the expected number of such games a shoe is 0.0225338 X 80 = 1.802704. That makes sense wrt baccarat in general because in a regular $5 game: 0.0117% (HE for on banker, not considering ties,) X $5 X 72 (non-tie decisions) = $4.21 comm... slightly more than the (1.802704 - the one approx additional banker win a shoe) X $5 = $4. Furthermore, EZ-baccarat has the same house-edge for the player-bet, and a slightly lesser one for the banker-bet.

2. I have read somewhere that most casinos which adopted a no-commission game have slightly changed the side-bets scoring conditions (for a push) to get around the royalty fees, and the lesser edge over the banker-bet.

3. Unlike the version of baccarat which pays half the banker-bet on a banker win by a six (see the thread Unlimited negative progression for more about that version), this one may be better attacked by simple card-counting... say when there are more 8, 9, and 0's, than usual, because there will be somewhat fewer 3-card 7's for either the player or banker -options.

Last edited by garnabby; 11-22-2009 at 09:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Social Group Question: Have to Approve Messages? John1234 Shooting the Breeze 4 10-09-2009 09:08 AM
One-Time Opportunity: Private Baccarat System Social Group Forum garnabby Shooting the Breeze 37 08-26-2009 05:02 PM
Forum Upgrade: Social Group Updates and Server Upgrades (and 14.5k Members!) Mike Updates & Announcements 0 07-27-2009 02:47 PM
Forum Upgrade: Social Group, Private Message, Profile Privacy Improvements Mike Updates & Announcements 0 02-10-2009 12:04 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.