Thread: card value system idea.

Here is another idea that I thought of while playing a shoe tonight. It is not really complicated but it is a bit tedious to track. I only tested one shoe because it takes forever to test a shoe.
Testing can only be done live or with card values. It is a system that uses all of the final values of the cards.

I tested a 6 deck shoe and finished +8 units with no drawdown. It is a flat bet method. Do not use a progression.

Here are the basic rules:

You will be tracking every single FINAL value
-Each value will be a assigned a count. The count is capped at +/- 1. Meaning the count goes no higher than +1 and no lower than -1.
-Every single value gets its own count.
-When a value wins you add +1 to the count (remember that you go no higher then +1 so if you are already at +1 for a value then stay there. )
-When a value losses you -1 from the count of the value (remember you do not go beyond -1. If the value already has -1 then keep it there).

when the count is + you bet for that side to win again.
When the count is - you bet for that side to lose again.
When the count is 0 there is no bet.
When two values have the same count you do not bet.
So you will only be betting when a side has a positive count and the other side has a negative count or when a value has either a + or - count and the other value has a value of 0.

Tracking:

I think it would be best to make a chart that looks like this:

0
----------------------------------
1
---------------------------------
2
---------------------------------
3
---------------------------------
4
---------------------------
5
---------------------------------
6
---------------------------------

7
-----------------------------------

8
-----------------------------------

9
------------------------------------

Profit
------------------------------------


When a final value wins or loses place it in it's column.
Ex:


0 +1,0,-1,-1,-1,0
---------------------

1 -1 -1 -1
----------------------

2 0
-----------------------
3 0
-----------------------
4 +1 +1 0
--------------------------

5 -1, -1,
--------------------------

6 0, +1, +1
--------------------------

7 " "
-----------------------------

8 " "
------------------------------

9 " "
---------------------------

Profit +1, +2, +3, +2, +1, +2, +3, +4


By now you probably get the point.

can u explain more about this method please. i dont really understand at all

can u give like situation example so that i can understand. i will help you try this method in casino and tell u the result

yes i will try to explain it better..just give me some time.

I have not really tested it it on any other shoes...I am working on something else at the moment but it doesn't hurt to have more ideas about how to attack this game.

I think the best way to explain this to you is to make a mini shoe and explain what you do.


We are only focused on the final values of P and B.


Before you start playing make your chart. This is where you will place the scores of each value.

Each value gets assigned a place in the chart. And at the bottom of the chart make a profit row so you can keep track of how much you are winning and losing.

The chart is used for tracking.
-Each value will have its own mini count. The count never goes lower then -1 and never higher then +1.
-When a value wins you add 1 to the count of the value and when a side losses you subtract 1 from the count of the value.
-Ignore all ties.

How to know what to bet:
-When you arrive at a decision you will have 2 values and
A) 1 value will have a positive count and 1 value will have a negative count. In this instance you bet for the value with the positive count to win and the value with the negative count to lose.

B) Both values will have either positive or negative counts. In this instance you will not bet because you do not know which count to bet to win or lose.

C) 1 value will either have a positive count or a negative count while the other value has 0 count. In this instance you bet based off the side that has the + or - count. If it has a + count then bet for it to win and if it has a - count then bet for it to lose.


So here is how the chart should look.

0
--------------------------------

1
---------------------------

2
--------------------------

3
---------------------------

4
-----------------------------

5
-----------------------------

6
----------------------------

7
----------------------------

8
---------------------------

9
----------------------------

Profit

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now I will play through the mini shoe. I will repost both the chart and the mini shoe.

P B
8 3 This is the first decision.
7 8 The value of 8 won and the value of 3 lost. Now go to the chart and record.
Now look..you have a value of 8, so look at the chart and decide if you want to bet for at to win or lose. 8 has a +1 score so bet for it to win.
3 1 - 8 lose and 7 won. now record the scores. -Look you have a 3. You will bet for 3 to lose since it has a negative count.

0 4 ---3 lost and 1 won, so adjust the scores in the chart. you also won the bet. 4 and 0 are not recorded so you have no bet.

8 6 ----0 won and 4 lost, record in the chart. 8 is at a value of 0 and 6 has no value so no bet

9 1-- 8 won and 6 lost. record. 9 has no value but 1 has a value of +1, so bet for 1 to win.

3 6 --1 wins, 9 loses, record. 3 and 6 have same value, do not bet.
6 9---3 losses, 6 wins. record. 6 has value of 0, 9 has -1 so bet for 9 to lose.
6 7---9 wins 6 loses. record. 6 has +1 and 7 has -1, bet for 6 to win.
0 6---6 losses, and 7 wins.

That is a small sample out of a larger shoe that finished +9









0: +1
--------------------------------

1: +1, +1
---------------------------

2
--------------------------

3: -1, -1(capped), -1
---------------------------

4: -1
-----------------------------

5
-----------------------------

6: -1,0,+1,0
----------------------------

7: -1,0
----------------------------

8: +1, 0, +1
---------------------------

9: -1,0
----------------------------

Profit: -1, 0, +1,0,-1
--------------------

Its like rouling the dice John1234....its the same thing...no diferece

Originally Posted by wraptor

Its like rouling the dice John1234....its the same thing...no diferece

haha ok..It is just an idea

I am not mean or anything.. but just don't waste time for creating system for baccarat.... play baccarat like lottery.. man.. i hear most lottery winners are those who played lottery first time or just bought one or something like that..... i play baccarat like following... take any system you like.. but i have $10 to start that's it.... if you lose then go home,,,,

i start betting 1-2-3-5-eight-13-21-34-55-eightynine-etc.....

for example.. you wait 4 streak then follow the streak.. you might hit 20 streak.. never know.. it make you great winner....

only way... only way to win gambling is either hit jackpot or hit crazy streak and you are following and doubling up every win... anything involves progressive and win 1 unit is junk.... or flat bet isn't good also... you get profit and go back and you lose all.... bet small and win big is the only way.. and of cource i won't expect to win huge soon or maybe in life time... just like lottery.. but i feel better odds than lottery.. i have seen 15 or 19 streaks with my eyes.. and they come out often... so if you bet on those when it is 4 then you make pretty good money..... or even wait till 7 show up then follow the streak....

Originally Posted by Joker

I am not mean or anything.. but just don't waste time for creating system for baccarat.... play baccarat like lottery.. man.. i hear most lottery winners are those who played lottery first time or just bought one or something like that..... i play baccarat like following... take any system you like.. but i have $10 to start that's it.... if you lose then go home,,,,

i start betting 1-2-3-5-eight-13-21-34-55-eightynine-etc.....

for example.. you wait 4 streak then follow the streak.. you might hit 20 streak.. never know.. it make you great winner....

only way... only way to win gambling is either hit jackpot or hit crazy streak and you are following and doubling up every win... anything involves progressive and win 1 unit is junk.... or flat bet isn't good also... you get profit and go back and you lose all.... bet small and win big is the only way.. and of cource i won't expect to win huge soon or maybe in life time... just like lottery.. but i feel better odds than lottery.. i have seen 15 or 19 streaks with my eyes.. and they come out often... so if you bet on those when it is 4 then you make pretty good money..... or even wait till 7 show up then follow the streak....

i rarely see streaks of 15-19 and I play almost everyday. In in last 3 weeks the highest streak that I have seen has been 12 and this has only happened two times.
I see what you are saying though, if you do get that nice streak then you will make some money.

And I disagree with you on flat betting. I have been flat betting and I have tripled my bankroll 4 times over in about two weeks. I actually am now convinced that flat betting is the way to go. To me, a good system that only wins a few units per shoe consistently is much stronger than a progressive system that wins a lot of units but is less consistent. This is because the consistent few units per game will add up and you can eventually bet larger with less risk.

I don't use this system and I don't really intend to. I thought of it real quick and I didn't really look into it because I have something that seems to be much better.

This is the last idea that I will be posting on this site..I think that too many people are too focused on looking at solely the P/B outcomes and unwilling to look at the game in different ways.I however am sick of retracing ground that has already been covered. Although, looking at it like a lottery is interesting. i tend to do this with roulette. I would rather put a $10 chip on a number than $10 into a slot machine. I feel as though my odds are much better.

Originally Posted by John1234

And I disagree with you on flat betting. I have been flat betting and I have tripled my bankroll 4 times over in about two weeks. I actually am now convinced that flat betting is the way to go. To me, a good system that only wins a few units per shoe consistently is much stronger than a progressive system that wins a lot of units but is less consistent. .

What sistem for flat betting do you use John1234?

I am sorry but I am not going to share. but i will tell you that is uses card values.

Originally Posted by John1234

I am sorry but I am not going to share. but i will tell you that is uses card values.

Its ok buddy...we all have a sistem that we are not weling to share...take care and keep posting

well, yes.. flat bet is the way to go... i would think so also..if I play for fun i would use flat bet...
here are some flat bet i like to use...

1) go to google and type win baccarat consisten.. and find site has 100 predictor program... and play opposite of it... I did pretty good with it....

2) place the bet exactly opposite of what you think....

3) find people who is losing and bet opposite....

well, another problem with flat bet is unless starting unit is high you never get good profit.. like you start $10... nothing much you can do... you win 40 times and get 400.. that's not easy....

oh john.. actually i like even betting on sports betting since i can use more educated guess..... and double up each win or something.....

well, after many years.. i haven't got any consistent winning system.. well, hardest thing in casino is control yourself.. if you got losing streak
can you go home with smile on face??? well, so far i can't do it... i want to play baccarat like buying scratch.. if lose then that's it.. throw it away....

I agree you should be able to make a profit flat betting, and progressions should only be used to increase the profits, not make up for the systems short comings.

Great work john

But so far card values can be useful as im using it too...but I need more live results not random results from website anyone can feed me with live reuslts thanks alot.

John,

I am Jim from Singapore..I really appreciate ur effort to help fellow baccarat player and i am interested to know more about your card value system idea.

reference to below post by you....i am still kinda confused, see below underlined....are u able to explain step by step ?
few questions: 1) what inspire u to come up with this system?
2) did u personally play it and win money?
3) do i have to start recording from the very first hand in a shoe to play this system?
4) are u a semi-pro or full time pro bac player?

sorry to bother u..and thanks in advance

rgds
Jim Ng

__________________________________________________ ___________Now I will play through the mini shoe. I will repost both the chart and the mini shoe. <br> <br>
P B <br>
8 3 This is the first decision. (first decision what is the bet, P or B?)
7 8 The value of 8 won and the value of 3 lost. Now go to the chart and record.<br>
Now look..you have a value of 8, so look at the chart and decide if you
want to bet for at to win or lose. 8 has a +1 score so bet for it to
win. <br>
3 1 - 8 lose and 7 won<strong><u>(why 8 lose to 7??)</u></strong>(. now record the scores. -Look you have a 3. You will bet for 3 to lose since it has a negative count. <br> <br>
0 4 ---3 lost and 1 won, so adjust the scores in the chart. you also won the bet. 4 and 0 are not recorded<strong><u>(not recorded,do u mean no previous data?)</u></strong> so you have no bet. <br> <br>
8 6 ----0 won and 4 lost <u><strong>(0 won 4 lost, so u are using preceding outcome to assign value to current outcome??kinda complicated!?)</strong></u>, record in the chart. 8 is at a value of 0 and 6 has no value so no bet<br> <br>
9 1-- 8 won and 6 lost. record. 9 has no value but 1 has a value of +1, so bet for 1 to win.<br> <br>
3 6 --1 wins, 9 loses, record. 3 and 6 have same value, do not bet. <br>
6 9---3 losses, 6 wins. record. 6 has value of 0, 9 has -1 so bet for 9 to lose. <br>
6 7---9 wins 6 loses. record. 6 has +1 and 7 has -1, bet for 6 to win. <br>
0 6---6 losses, and 7 wins. <br> <br>
That is a small sample out of a larger shoe that finished +9

Hi,
I know John and he's a smart guy, I give him some credit...
I'll give it a try!
andrea

Originally Posted by andrebac

Hi,
I know John and he's a smart guy, I give him some credit...
I'll give it a try!
andrea

I try not to go on forums anymore..but I have to for this one. First of all, thanks andrea. But I have no idea where I was going with this one. it was just some stupid idea that I threw out there.

Not so bad!
1st attempt: ended +5 with a max of +6 flat bett.

well good first shoe, but remember that it is just luck. I could do the same exact thing flipping a coin. In fact, i have done that at the roulette table. There is nothing special about this system and the flawed logic behind it. I wouldn't risk a cent on it.

Originally Posted by John1234

I have not really tested it it on any other shoes...I am working on something else at the moment but it doesn't hurt to have more ideas about how to attack this game.

I think the best way to explain this to you is to make a mini shoe and explain what you do.


We are only focused on the final values of P and B.


Before you start playing make your chart. This is where you will place the scores of each value.

Each value gets assigned a place in the chart. And at the bottom of the chart make a profit row so you can keep track of how much you are winning and losing.

The chart is used for tracking.
-Each value will have its own mini count. The count never goes lower then -1 and never higher then +1.
-When a value wins you add 1 to the count of the value and when a side losses you subtract 1 from the count of the value.
-Ignore all ties.

How to know what to bet:
-When you arrive at a decision you will have 2 values and
A) 1 value will have a positive count and 1 value will have a negative count. In this instance you bet for the value with the positive count to win and the value with the negative count to lose.

B) Both values will have either positive or negative counts. In this instance you will not bet because you do not know which count to bet to win or lose.

C) 1 value will either have a positive count or a negative count while the other value has 0 count. In this instance you bet based off the side that has the + or - count. If it has a + count then bet for it to win and if it has a - count then bet for it to lose.


So here is how the chart should look.

0
--------------------------------

1
---------------------------

2
--------------------------

3
---------------------------

4
-----------------------------

5
-----------------------------

6
----------------------------

7
----------------------------

8
---------------------------

9
----------------------------

Profit

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now I will play through the mini shoe. I will repost both the chart and the mini shoe.

P B
8 3 This is the first decision.
7 8 The value of 8 won and the value of 3 lost. Now go to the chart and record.
Now look..you have a value of 8, so look at the chart and decide if you want to bet for at to win or lose. 8 has a +1 score so bet for it to win.
3 1 - 8 lose and 7 won. now record the scores. -Look you have a 3. You will bet for 3 to lose since it has a negative count.

0 4 ---3 lost and 1 won, so adjust the scores in the chart. you also won the bet. 4 and 0 are not recorded so you have no bet.

8 6 ----0 won and 4 lost, record in the chart. 8 is at a value of 0 and 6 has no value so no bet

9 1-- 8 won and 6 lost. record. 9 has no value but 1 has a value of +1, so bet for 1 to win.

3 6 --1 wins, 9 loses, record. 3 and 6 have same value, do not bet.
6 9---3 losses, 6 wins. record. 6 has value of 0, 9 has -1 so bet for 9 to lose.
6 7---9 wins 6 loses. record. 6 has +1 and 7 has -1, bet for 6 to win.
0 6---6 losses, and 7 wins.

That is a small sample out of a larger shoe that finished +9









0: +1
--------------------------------

1: +1, +1
---------------------------

2
--------------------------

3: -1, -1(capped), -1
---------------------------

4: -1
-----------------------------

5
-----------------------------

6: -1,0,+1,0
----------------------------

7: -1,0
----------------------------

8: +1, 0, +1
---------------------------

9: -1,0
----------------------------

Profit: -1, 0, +1,0,-1
--------------------

so only bet which is the lose side,
win side no bet

Originally Posted by John1234

well good first shoe, but remember that it is just luck. I could do the same exact thing flipping a coin. In fact, i have done that at the roulette table. There is nothing special about this system and the flawed logic behind it. I wouldn't risk a cent on it.

Poignant, good to read somebody else is achieving realisation. If the cards or roulette ball has no realisation or appreciation regarding what the logic you are applying, then it certainly is most likely flawed.

so only bet which is the lose side,
win side no bet

no. no . no..no bet at all. Do not bet on this. There is no magic here and I never claimed that there was. I never tested this against any shoes..I was thinking out-loud when I wrote this thread. Looking back, I have no clue what I was thinking. Maybe too many late nights got to my brain and made me delusional.