Grab The Gold Shoes

[sdf1492]

I ran thru this exercise just for my own benefit but I thought someone else might be interested. Using O and F and based on a series of five, the following should be all the sequences possible



O O O O O
* * * * * * *
F O O O O
O F O O O
O O F O O
O O O F O
O O O O F
* * * * * * *
F F O O O
F O F O O
F O O F O
F O O O F
* * * * * * *
F F F O O
F F O F O
F F O O F
* * * * * * *
F F F F O
F F F O F
* * * * * * *
F F F F F
* * * * * * *
O F F F F
F O F F F
F F O F F
F F F O F
F F F F O
* * * * * * *
O O F F F
O F O F F
O F F O F
O F F F O
* * * * * * *
O O O F F
O O F O F
O O F F O
* * * * * * *
O O O O F
O O O F O
* * * * * * *

[Archer]

Good stuff! Thanks for that. GTG said he looks back at the previous shoe to decide which Grids to play, right? So he has them divided up. We need to figure out which ones go with what type of shoe AND (the hard part) the mathematical probability that the Grid we choose from are the correct ones for the shoe we are in. He wrote: [quote] Now, we all know, and have all seen shoes that DEVIATE from the normal Mathematical Probability, thus we DESIGN BET Placement GRIDS that favor either a predominantly "CHOPPY" shoe, "STREAKY" shoe, or an "EVEN" shoe; basically GRIDS that DEVIATE on either side of the CENTER of the Mathematical Probabilities./[QUOTE)

Which Grids go with which shoes should be easy to figure. This kind of study will, if nothing else, lead to a better understanding of the game. It may also spurn other ideas of approach. Doesn't cost $500 bucks either!

A

I ran thru this exercise just for my own benefit but I thought someone else might be interested. Using O and F and based on a series of five, the following should be all the sequences possible



O O O O O
* * * * * * *
F O O O O
O F O O O
O O F O O
O O O F O
O O O O F
* * * * * * *
F F O O O
F O F O O
F O O F O
F O O O F
* * * * * * *
F F F O O
F F O F O
F F O O F
* * * * * * *
F F F F O
F F F O F
* * * * * * *
F F F F F
* * * * * * *
O F F F F
F O F F F
F F O F F
F F F O F
F F F F O
* * * * * * *
O O F F F
O F O F F
O F F O F
O F F F O
* * * * * * *
O O O F F
O O F O F
O O F F O
* * * * * * *
O O O O F
O O O F O
* * * * * * *

[NaturalNines]

[quote=Archer;16824]Good stuff! Thanks for that. GTG said he looks back at the previous shoe to decide which Grids to play, right? So he has them divided up. We need to figure out which ones go with what type of shoe AND (the hard part) the mathematical probability that the Grid we choose from are the correct ones for the shoe we are in. He wrote:

Now, we all know, and have all seen shoes that DEVIATE from the normal Mathematical Probability, thus we DESIGN BET Placement GRIDS that favor either a predominantly "CHOPPY" shoe, "STREAKY" shoe, or an "EVEN" shoe; basically GRIDS that DEVIATE on either side of the CENTER of the Mathematical Probabilities./[QUOTE)

Which Grids go with which shoes should be easy to figure. This kind of study will, if nothing else, lead to a better understanding of the game. It may also spurn other ideas of approach. Doesn't cost $500 bucks either!

A

A little more detective work, grid work and practice and we will have the method down. WOOHOO!

[Grab The Gold]

Nice work SDF1492, Archer, and LordMuffDive!!!

Now then, how does one MATCH up the right combination with what you just saw in the (5) previous hands? You are all on the right track.

If you just saw: P-B-P-P-B ... Based on the probability of continuing these SINGLES and (1) Double; what SEQUENCE would be the appropriate RESPONSE Sequence? How would one ...

1) Install a Sequence that based on Math would CATCH continuing CHANGING hands as you've just seen and according to the GRID you designed, and ...

2) Have in that Sequence a component or segment that might CATCH a STREAK in (5) hands should a STREAK begin to evolve?

For now, just focus on looking back (5) hands before you try to assimilate looking back (10) hands for the overall adjustment or TREND of the shoe as it occurs in those intervals.

Remember, things in Baccarat happen in 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 hands; thus, our primary look is at (5) hands which covers all changes in 1, 3, and 5. The looking back (10) takes care of the rest!

Again, CREATE a CENTERLINE or NEUTRAL set of RESPONSES for the AVERAGE shoe, then CREATE (2) Deviation Grids, one for the shoe that has demonstrated that above average CHOP has occurred to that point in the shoe, OR, one for a shoe that has demonstrated an above average propensity to STREAK thus far in the shoe ... you will all be amazed at how all this works out! Getting (1) WIN out of (5) hands will soon become a SNAP!

All of you are doing GREAT, you are NOW on your way and on the correct path to becoming VERY successful in this game! The "MGM" Method is a FORCE that will make you very content and at ease in sitting down at the tables from now on!

It's nice to see that when one actually does lead the "Horses" to the pond, some actually do drink!

Good effort always pays good dividends! Way to go Folks!

GTG

[hlkhoo]

Hi GTG,
Good day.

When you mentioned :-
"Getting (1) WIN out of (5) hands will soon become a SNAP!"

Are you using martingale?
If your progression is 10-10-25-50-75, winning at the 5th step (75), it is still a lost.
Also, in your mode of play, do you always target for 1 win within 5 hands only?

[Archer]

Hi GTG,
Good day.

When you mentioned :-
"Getting (1) WIN out of (5) hands will soon become a SNAP!"

Are you using martingale?
If your progression is 10-10-25-50-75, winning at the 5th step (75), it is still a lost.
Also, in your mode of play, do you always target for 1 win within 5 hands only?

Above is not a Martingale. The betting part is a recovery system which allows for brake even at 50 and a small loss at 75. If win 75 then later larger bets will be placed to recover the 2 unit loss IF necessary.

A

[Archer]

Nice work SDF1492, Archer, and LordMuffDive!!!

Now then, how does one MATCH up the right combination with what you just saw in the (5) previous hands? You are all on the right track.

If you just saw: P-B-P-P-B ... Based on the probability of continuing these SINGLES and (1) Double; what SEQUENCE would be the appropriate RESPONSE Sequence? How would one ...

1) Install a Sequence that based on Math would CATCH continuing CHANGING hands as you've just seen and according to the GRID you designed, and ...

2) Have in that Sequence a component or segment that might CATCH a STREAK in (5) hands should a STREAK begin to evolve?

For now, just focus on looking back (5) hands before you try to assimilate looking back (10) hands for the overall adjustment or TREND of the shoe as it occurs in those intervals.

I don't know about "Install a Sequence that based on Math" unless there is a positive probability factor that the last 5 will NOT repeat. But then that can't be it because ALL Grids would simply be the same as the last 5 hands with a hedge thrown in or, in this instance, OFOO In the example of P-B-P-P-B we have 3 changes and 1 same in 5 hands or OOOF. WE need another F. That's all I have right now.

Remember, things in Baccarat happen in 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 hands; thus, our primary look is at (5) hands which covers all changes in 1, 3, and 5. The looking back (10) takes care of the rest!

Again, CREATE a CENTERLINE or NEUTRAL set of RESPONSES for the AVERAGE shoe, then CREATE (2) Deviation Grids, one for the shoe that has demonstrated that above average CHOP has occurred to that point in the shoe, OR, one for a shoe that has demonstrated an above average propensity to STREAK thus far in the shoe ... you will all be amazed at how all this works out! Getting (1) WIN out of (5) hands will soon become a SNAP!

All of you are doing GREAT, you are NOW on your way and on the correct path to becoming VERY successful in this game! The "MGM" Method is a FORCE that will make you very content and at ease in sitting down at the tables from now on!

It's nice to see that when one actually does lead the "Horses" to the pond, some actually do drink!

Good effort always pays good dividends! Way to go Folks!

GTG

[sdf1492]

Just off the top of my head and without really too much thought here (just want to keep discussion going)..

The ideal, perfectly average shoe should correspond to the numbers quote by garnabby as quoted by johno from GG. Chop 25% of the time, doubles 12.5% of the time, triples 6.25% of the time, quads 3.125% of the time, etc.

In a chop, O wins all the time, F loses all the time. In doubles O and F break even, triples O wins 33.3%, F wins 66.7%, in quads, O wins 25% and F wins 75%. (this is all very idealized and far, far from real world right now).

So I'm thinking that given the ideal perfectly average shoe, you would probably want a sequence that has more O than F, say 3 O's to 2 F's.

F F O O O
F O F O O
F O O F O
F O O O F
O O O F F
O O F O F
O O F F O


Comments and discussions
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????/

[Archer]

Just off the top of my head and without really too much thought here (just want to keep discussion going)..

The ideal, perfectly average shoe should correspond to the numbers quote by garnabby as quoted by johno from GG. Chop 25% of the time, doubles 12.5% of the time, triples 6.25% of the time, quads 3.125% of the time, etc.

In a chop, O wins all the time, F loses all the time. In doubles O and F break even, triples O wins 33.3%, F wins 66.7%, in quads, O wins 25% and F wins 75%. (this is all very idealized and far, far from real world right now).

So I'm thinking that given the ideal perfectly average shoe, you would probably want a sequence that has more O than F, say 3 O's to 2 F's.

F F O O O
F O F O O
F O O F O
F O O O F
O O O F F
O O F O F
O O F F O


Comments and discussions
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????/

I agree! We have to look at the natural order of a shoe. Every Bacc player who is playing any kind of a pattern method should know these numbers and what F and O win and lose to (and also TBL and OTBL). These are the basics of pattern betting. Out of a Grid of 5 "O" must dominate for the reasons sdf stated. There is another Grid OFOFO.

Question? If we look back at 5 hands what do the "neutral" hand decisions look like? My answer: htree era oenn LOL

A

[Grab The Gold]

I don't know about "Install a Sequence that based on Math" unless there is a positive probability factor that the last 5 will NOT repeat. But then that can't be it because ALL Grids would simply be the same as the last 5 hands with a hedge thrown in or, in this instance, OFOO In the example of P-B-P-P-B we have 3 changes and 1 same in 5 hands or OOOF. WE need another F. That's all I have right now.

What you need to remember is this; STAY in the MODE where you achieved a WIN! If you lose immediately, then you are at the DP Point and you INSTALL a RESPONSE Sequence to CATCH a WIN, once a WIN is again achieved, you STAY in that MODE. This assists in gaining continued WINS when a SHIFT occurs, the MGM method keeps you in the beginning of a CHOP Streak for continued wins, or a Follow streak for continued wins, everything else is caught by INSTALLING a RESPONSE Sequence!

For example; you saw this in the previous (5) hands ... P-B-P-P-P, and you lost for some reason on the final P, you saw (3) "P's" that just came in succession, thus, your RESPONSE might be this if the shoe was a NEUTRAL type of shoe:


GIVEN a NEUTRAL SHOE YOU BELIEVE IS UNFOLDING: [ P-B-P-P-P ]

F-O-F-O-O

Your first "F" is in hopes that the "P" will continue, if NOT that means CHOP is continuing, thus the "O" is there to catch that, if that loses then that means "BANK" doubled, so we will "FOLLOW" the BANK for (1) "F", if that loses, then we install (2) OPPOSITES in hopes to catch something.

Now then, if the 1st "F" did WIN, then you STAY "FOLLOW" until it loses, then you are at another DP, INSTALL a NEW SEQUENCE and so on!

Again, if the first "F" loses and the "O" WINS you STAY OPPOSITE until that loses, then you are at a DP and INSTALL a NEW SEQUENCE ... GOT IT?

You'll SHIFT this above explanation if the observed shoe seems to have A CHOP propensity in the last (10), thus I would INSTALL the following instead:

F-O-O-F-O

The reasons should be apparent; MORE CHOP, thus a few more (OPPOSITE) components in the sequence to assist in a continually shifting hand pattern.

If propensity is STREAK (and again you believe a DEVIATION is occurring) as observed in the last (10), then I might install the following:

F-F-O-F-O

You'll have (2) chances for the shoe to DOUBLE within the next two hands, a chance to catch a CHOP for a possible SHIFT, a chance to catch a TRIPLE, and a chance to catch a CHOP again.

Again, once you WIN, STAY in that MODE until you lose, then you are at a DP, observe what happened in the last five, make a decision if the shoe is deviating from the NORM by also considering the last (10), and INSTALL a RESPONSE Sequence based on the probability that this DEVIATION will continue! Factor your GRIDS for OBSERVED last five hands, layout the GRID for how many successive changes or non-successive changes occurred and DESIGN a SEQUENCE around those parameters.

The same last five hands will be treated differently in the RESPONSE Sequence based on what you are observing as described above, this is why we developed (3) GRIDS; observe what has occurred and RESPOND accordingly. The SAME last (5) hands should have (3) types of possible RESPONSES based on how YOU think the shoe is evolving i.e. CHOPPING, NEUTRAL (your baseline), or STREAKING.

FOCUS on the LAST FIVE possible hand combinations, list them out, and DESIGN (3) possible responses! Thus, layout all the possible CHANGES in five hands and DESIGN the response ... pretty easy right?

Go for it GUYS, you are all asking and commenting with the RIGHT QUESTIONS, soon enough you'll all be PRO's at this!

[Archer]

GTG WROTE IN PART:

FOCUS on the LAST FIVE possible hand combinations, list them out, and DESIGN (3) possible responses! Thus, layout all the possible CHANGES in five hands and DESIGN the response ... pretty easy right?

Yes, this part. Which of the 3 is best - mathematically? I'll have to find out tomorrow. I am off to Foxwoods for an overnight. I don't know why because I am only 45 minutes away. . .Look forward to reading responses tomorrow.

A

[Grab The Gold]

GTG WROTE IN PART:


Yes, this part. Which of the 3 is best - mathematically? I'll have to find out tomorrow. I am off to Foxwoods for an overnight. I don't know why because I am only 45 minutes away. . .Look forward to reading responses tomorrow.

A

When in doubt, Mathematically use the NEUTRAL GRID. Let's examine from the beginning of a shoe:

First (4) hands:

P-P-B-B ... Okay, EVEN distribution so we go NEUTRAL

NEXT (5) hands:

B-B-P-B-P ... We examine and see (1) Streak of two, and three CHOPS ... Stay NEUTRAL

NEXT (5) hands:

B-P-P-P-P ... We examine and see (1) CHOP and (1) Streak of (4), thus we are leaning slightly overall to a STREAKING shoe so we switch to a STREAKING GRID hoping this will continue. Overall, looking from the beginning, the STREAK has been overcoming the NEUTRAL just slightly.

To counter this last (5) hands I would INSTALL a RESPONSE like this:

F-F-F-O-O ... Thus (3) chances to FOLLOW (STREAK) and (2) chances to change. The shoe is definitely showing a DEVIATION from NORM to unfold in DOUBLES or better; Mathematically it is breaching the NORM toward less changes.

Remember, CHANGE, or OPPOSITE is usually the most prevalent, BUT, you must account for NON-STANDARD or NON-PROBABLE behavior, this is a KEY fundamental for deviation analysis.

When you start looking at this game from a different viewpoint and take your EMOTIONS out of the equation and allow yourself the opportunity to look at what is actually unfolding, all the while KNOWING what the NORM is (the baseline), your behavior will change, you will begin to feel more confident in the PLAY SELECTION and BET PLACEMENT amounts.

Exacting a STRATEGY that RESPONDS to IMPROBABLE behavior is what will set you apart from others at the table, because YOU have a RESPONSE laid-out for these DEVIANT behaviors! It's like walking up to a table that let's say has 80 cards out, you look at someone's card and saw that (5) PLAYER hands just came out, and before that there we (2) sets of doubles, and BEFORE that (2) CHOPS, and BEFORE that (1) Triple ... Folks, we are looking at a DEVIANT SHOE, let's INSTALL a (5) hand Sequence that may CAPITALIZE on what we are seeing!

Well guys ... I'm playing this ... F-O-F-F-O Why?

That's easy, Mathematically in the last 15 hands (1) STREAK of five, (2) combinations of (2) or more vs. (1) set of (3) hands changing back and forth to equal the (2) chops. If it continues to play STREAKY, which is NOT probable, we'll "Nail it", and if it CHOPS right away we have it, if it starts to streak again we have it, but if it begins to CHOP after the second or third segment of the SEQUENCE we have a HIGH probability to get it.

That's how you determine which GRID you may favor.

Like John Travolta said in "Saturday Night Fever" ... "Can ya Dig it ... I KNEW that you COULD!"

Boy does that date me!

"Smile everyone, things are about to TURN YOUR WAY!"

GTG

[sdf1492]

There is another Grid OFOFO.

Looks like I missed FOFOF, too. I'll recheck these when I get a chance.

[Grab The Gold]

What you need to remember is this; STAY in the MODE where you achieved a WIN! If you lose immediately, then you are at the DP Point and you INSTALL a RESPONSE Sequence to CATCH a WIN, once a WIN is again achieved, you STAY in that MODE. This assists in gaining continued WINS when a SHIFT occurs, the MGM method keeps you in the beginning of a CHOP Streak for continued wins, or a Follow streak for continued wins, everything else is caught by INSTALLING a RESPONSE Sequence!

Once again, for those of you who need a tiny shove in the right direction; we STAY in the MODE when we achieved a WIN at because slightly more than 50% of the time (on average) that will SERVE US well to catch a minimum of (2) consecutive wins if not more. Installing RESPONSE SEQUENCES takes care of the rest of the hands to catch (1) out (5) hands. This is why it is difficult for me to lose a shoe because not only do I have that working for me, but also have EXIT parameters that keep me from exiting without profit ... this is AS important as the PLAYING and BETTING Strategies by themselves. Those EXIT parameters keep you consciously AWARE of where YOU are in the shoe, it keeps you BALANCED and your EMOTIONS easily in check. One you HIT an EXIT parameter you are GONE from the table, betting wise anyway. You start winning 4 straight, then 9 straight, then 20 straight shoes, you have been conditioned by those parameters, you begin to gain confidence in yourself and the strategies you are using!

[sdf1492]

Let's try this again:

F F F F F
F F F F O
F F F O F
F F F O O
F F O F F
F F O F O
F F O O F
F F O O O
F O F F F
F O F F O
F O F O F
F O F O O
F O O F O
F O O O F
F O O O O
O F F F F
O F F F O
O F F O F
O F O F F
O F O F O
O F O O F
O F O O O
O O F F F
O O F F O
O O F O F
O O F O O
O O O F F
O O O F O
O O O O F
O O O O O

[Archer]

All events are independent to a point but that is another thread. For now, let's presume they are. Your list is another way of looking at it but I don't think it is the same way as what GTG is trying to do.

There is a distinct difference in betting for a specific decision (B or P) and betting O or F regardless of the previous decision. He is taking the specific decision and seeing them not as "hand" wins but "O" or "F" wins. Then he is looking at those kinds of combinations to select a bet sequence regardless of what hand won. For instance, from his perspective P B P B P is the same as B P B P B. So if you convert your hand decisions to O and F you get how many, 18? Because half of them are exact opposites, right? Less 2 because there never is a OOOOO or FFFFF Grid. So now 16?

It is a unique perspective for me anyway. Archer

Maybe this might make more sense;

1PPPPP
2BPPPP
3PBPPP
4BBPPP
5PPBPP
6BPBPP
7PBBPP
8BBBPP
9PPPBP
10BPPBP
11PBPBP
12BBPBP
13PPBBP
14BPBBP
15PBBBP
16BBBBP
17PPPPB
18BPPPB
19PBPPB
20BBPPB
21PPBPB
22BPBPB
23PBBPB
24BBBPB
25PPPBB
26BPPBB
27PBPBB
28BBPBB
29PPBBB
30BPBBB
31PBBBB
32BBBBB

All events are independant of each other, an important point!

[Archer]

Well, GTG, you have really laid it out now. Gonna take a little practice to feel it out. I will run through some sample shoes. It'll take a little study cause I am a slow learner. Archer

When in doubt, Mathematically use the NEUTRAL GRID. Let's examine from the beginning of a shoe:

First (4) hands:

P-P-B-B ... Okay, EVEN distribution so we go NEUTRAL

NEXT (5) hands:

B-B-P-B-P ... We examine and see (1) Streak of two, and three CHOPS ... Stay NEUTRAL

NEXT (5) hands:

B-P-P-P-P ... We examine and see (1) CHOP and (1) Streak of (4), thus we are leaning slightly overall to a STREAKING shoe so we switch to a STREAKING GRID hoping this will continue. Overall, looking from the beginning, the STREAK has been overcoming the NEUTRAL just slightly.

To counter this last (5) hands I would INSTALL a RESPONSE like this:

F-F-F-O-O ... Thus (3) chances to FOLLOW (STREAK) and (2) chances to change. The shoe is definitely showing a DEVIATION from NORM to unfold in DOUBLES or better; Mathematically it is breaching the NORM toward less changes.

Remember, CHANGE, or OPPOSITE is usually the most prevalent, BUT, you must account for NON-STANDARD or NON-PROBABLE behavior, this is a KEY fundamental for deviation analysis.

When you start looking at this game from a different viewpoint and take your EMOTIONS out of the equation and allow yourself the opportunity to look at what is actually unfolding, all the while KNOWING what the NORM is (the baseline), your behavior will change, you will begin to feel more confident in the PLAY SELECTION and BET PLACEMENT amounts.

Exacting a STRATEGY that RESPONDS to IMPROBABLE behavior is what will set you apart from others at the table, because YOU have a RESPONSE laid-out for these DEVIANT behaviors! It's like walking up to a table that let's say has 80 cards out, you look at someone's card and saw that (5) PLAYER hands just came out, and before that there we (2) sets of doubles, and BEFORE that (2) CHOPS, and BEFORE that (1) Triple ... Folks, we are looking at a DEVIANT SHOE, let's INSTALL a (5) hand Sequence that may CAPITALIZE on what we are seeing!

Well guys ... I'm playing this ... F-O-F-F-O Why?

That's easy, Mathematically in the last 15 hands (1) STREAK of five, (2) combinations of (2) or more vs. (1) set of (3) hands changing back and forth to equal the (2) chops. If it continues to play STREAKY, which is NOT probable, we'll "Nail it", and if it CHOPS right away we have it, if it starts to streak again we have it, but if it begins to CHOP after the second or third segment of the SEQUENCE we have a HIGH probability to get it.

That's how you determine which GRID you may favor.

Like John Travolta said in "Saturday Night Fever" ... "Can ya Dig it ... I KNEW that you COULD!"

Boy does that date me!

"Smile everyone, things are about to TURN YOUR WAY!"

GTG

[Archer]

Once again, for those of you who need a tiny shove in the right direction; we STAY in the MODE when we achieved a WIN at because slightly more than 50% of the time (on average) that will SERVE US well to catch a minimum of (2) consecutive wins if not more. Installing RESPONSE SEQUENCES takes care of the rest of the hands to catch (1) out (5) hands. This is why it is difficult for me to lose a shoe because not only do I have that working for me, but also have EXIT parameters that keep me from exiting without profit ... this is AS important as the PLAYING and BETTING Strategies by themselves. Those EXIT parameters keep you consciously AWARE of where YOU are in the shoe, it keeps you BALANCED and your EMOTIONS easily in check. One you HIT an EXIT parameter you are GONE from the table, betting wise anyway. You start winning 4 straight, then 9 straight, then 20 straight shoes, you have been conditioned by those parameters, you begin to gain confidence in yourself and the strategies you are using!

I suspect nobody will disagree with the discipline and psychological aspect of the above. I am going to go out on a limb here. You say "this is AS important as the PLAYING and BETTING Strategies by themselves." True, but my point would be that the betting strategies (Grids) are NOT written in stone. IOW, they are forgiving to a certain point. One might choose one Grid, say OOFOO in a certain situation while someone else might choose OOOFO in the same situation. There never will be a perfect Grid, just more appropriate Grid. The MM and exit parameters hopefully will increase the success rate. So will a little luck, LOL. Don't forget, in a 50-50 game (or nearly) winning 1 out of 4 or 5 can happen often enough without a strategy. Incidentally, that is why we will need an awful lot of shoes to test.

Archer

[Archer]

Question for anyone. Why do we have/need Grids to length of 5 when we are only betting to length of 4. We don't start Grid until we have our first loss. After that we have only 4 bets before we hit the 7.5 bet.

Archer

[NaturalNines]

Question for anyone. Why do we have/need Grids to length of 5 when we are only betting to length of 4. We don't start Grid until we have our first loss. After that we have only 4 bets before we hit the 7.5 bet.

Archer

I remember somewhere he says things happen in 1,3,5,7,and 9 hands so the primary look is at 5 hands. Then he says looking back 10 hands takes care of the rest.

[natural9]

I remember somewhere he says things happen in 1,3,5,7,and 9 hands so the primary look is at 5 hands. Then he says looking back 10 hands takes care of the rest.

Whatever that means is like trying piece together a jigsaw puzzle with bit missing and lost forgood

[NaturalNines]

Whatever that means is like trying piece together a jigsaw puzzle with bit missing and lost forgood

I know what you mean N9, sometimes i feel that way also, no doubt. This method is no cakewalk without the "proper" grids. Even if you have the "proper" grids how can one similar grid not work better than the other and vice versa, aaargh.

[Grab The Gold]

Question for anyone. Why do we have/need Grids to length of 5 when we are only betting to length of 4. We don't start Grid until we have our first loss. After that we have only 4 bets before we hit the 7.5 bet.

Archer

C'mon guys, the DP is your FIRST LOSS, then you begin a (5) hand RESPONSE SEQUENCE, that's how I play it. If you ONLY want to bet (4) spots out after a DP then fine, but you'll give up a serious percentage factor in finally grabbing the FIFTH if you lost the initial four.

You all need to lay out all the possible CHANGES and LAY-IN Mathematical RESPONSES from the DP base on what is known from the previous five.

The RED Hand is the DP. {NEUTRAL SHOE}

------------ LAST (5) ----
YOU SAW ... P-P-P-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-O-O-F ]
YOU SAW ... P-P-P-P-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-F-O-F ]
YOU SAW ... P-P-B-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ F-O-F-F-O ]
YOU SAW ... P-B-B-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-F-O-O ]
YOU SAW ... B-B-B-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-O-F-O-F ]

C'mon guys, you are doing great so far, don't get discouraged, you are all almost there ... hang in there!

I feel like this is an EASTER EGG Hunt, geez, I'm leaving CLUES EVERYWHERE! Those EGGS are await'n to be FOUND!

The "MGM" (Multi-Grid-Method) is waiting to make you successful!

GTG

[joshky]

C'mon guys, the DP is your FIRST LOSS, then you begin a (5) hand RESPONSE SEQUENCE, that's how I play it. If you ONLY want to bet (4) spots out after a DP then fine, but you'll give up a serious percentage factor in finally grabbing the FIFTH if you lost the initial four.

You all need to lay out all the possible CHANGES and LAY-IN Mathematical RESPONSES from the DP base on what is known from the previous five.

The RED Hand is the DP. {NEUTRAL SHOE}

------------ LAST (5) ----
YOU SAW ... P-P-P-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-O-O-F ]
YOU SAW ... P-P-P-P-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-F-O-F ]
YOU SAW ... P-P-B-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ F-O-F-F-O ]
YOU SAW ... P-B-B-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-F-O-O ]
YOU SAW ... B-B-B-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-O-F-O-F ]

C'mon guys, you are doing great so far, don't get discouraged, you are all almost there ... hang in there!

I feel like this is an EASTER EGG Hunt, geez, I'm leaving CLUES EVERYWHERE! Those EGGS are await'n to be FOUND!

The "MGM" (Multi-Grid-Method) is waiting to make you successful!

GTG

GTG, you have the traits for a "good playboy", sending us out here on a easter egg hunt.

[ron90010]

The RED Hand is the DP. {NEUTRAL SHOE}

------------ LAST (5) ----
YOU SAW ... P-P-P-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-O-O-F ]
YOU SAW ... P-P-P-P-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-F-O-F ]
YOU SAW ... P-P-B-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ F-O-F-F-O ]
YOU SAW ... P-B-B-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-F-O-O ]
YOU SAW ... B-B-B-B-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-O-F-O-F ]

I think the above quote is misleading because according to what I gather from MGM:

"YOU SAW ... P-P-P-P-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-F-O-F ]"

This can never be a proper DP because you would be betting F the whole time here. So you would never have this Pas a loss. I guess GTG is just making a point about what O/F combo to install.

[hlkhoo]

GTG,
I think the most challenging part we are facing is installing the response sequence. There were just too many combination out there and one has to determine a shoe first; whether it's Neutral, chop or streak before getting to the sequence.
After that, we will need to look at last 5 or 10 and put in the so-call "best" sequence and "hope" it will catch some wins. I don't think there's a right or wrong in how we put up with the sequence.
For example:
(Scenario 1)
When you saw P-P-P-B-P ... your response might be [ O-F-O-O-F ]
But I may be installing F-O-F-O-O.
Well, assuming we both are playing at the same table and for scenario 1, let's say you catch a win earlier than me. Say, you got your winning from the first "F" [O-F-O-O-F] and for me, maybe the 2nd "F" [F-O-F-O-O].
Ok, for this scenario you had a better response sequence.

(Scenario 2)
Now for scenario 2. Assuming the same thing happens. We are both playing at another table and we both determine this is a neutral shoe and we both saw the last 5 was P-P-P-B-P. Same thing, you will be installing [ O-F-O-O-F ] as your response sequence and for me, [F-O-F-O-O] will be my sequence. And this time, let say I catch my win from the first "F" [F-O-F-O-O] and you got yours at the 2nd F [ O-F-O-O-F ] because the shoe is now P streaky.

Based on these 2 examples, after we saw P-P-P-B-P, the shoe can either go chops (your sequence won) and it can also go streak (my sequence won).

So, is sequence (Grids you call it) really that important? Appreciate if you could explain more in this area. Thanks

[Archer]

I remember somewhere he says things happen in 1,3,5,7,and 9 hands so the primary look is at 5 hands. Then he says looking back 10 hands takes care of the rest.

All I was trying to get to here was the length. DP is -1 then we have a 5 bet placement Grid that goes 1-, -2.5, -5, -7.5 (If lose). That is only 4 places after the DP loss but we have an extra placement in the Grid which goes 5 places so we never get to use the last Grid placement if we lose the Sequence so why a 5 place Grid? Why not only a 4 place Grid?

What am I missing?

Archer

[Archer]

I think the above quote is misleading because according to what I gather from MGM:

"YOU SAW ... P-P-P-P-P ... RESPONSE might be [ O-F-F-O-F ]"

This can never be a proper DP because you would be betting F the whole time here. So you would never have this Pas a loss. I guess GTG is just making a point about what O/F combo to install.

Yeah, I think he is just assuming a loss to start the Sequence after a DP, Ron.

A

[joshky]

Yeah, I think he is just assuming a loss to start the Sequence after a DP, Ron.

A

What does the term DP stand for?

[Archer]

All I was trying to get to here was the length. DP is -1 then we have a 5 bet placement Grid that goes 1-, -2.5, -5, -7.5 (If lose). That is only 4 places after the DP loss but we have an extra placement in the Grid which goes 5 places so we never get to use the last Grid placement if we lose the Sequence so why a 5 place Grid? Why not only a 4 place Grid?
What am I missing?Archer

Oh, I just read GTG post. So, he is saying the actual bet sequence would go:
1(DP) then 1-1-2.5-5-7.5 so that would be a total of 18 units risked, correct?

A