Analysis of Ellis' Latest Trip Report at Gold Strike

[Ellis]

Hi Kid,

Well, when I'm playing with my students I usually play green ($25) at their request. ABS Avg bet size is less than 2 units in Bac and usually near the same in BJ.

When alone I usually play black ($100) and I'm slightly looser with my progs so my avg is slightly over 2. When I hit a really hot Bac game I'll change my base to 2 but that only raises my abs about 1 unit. That occurs more frequently in BJ so I find myself playing 146 with blacks. If all goes very well I might move up to 2 8 12. My top BJ students go much higher.

When I was younger I frequently played double blacks but I don't do that much anymore. We have several members that play $500 and even $1000 but I don't even try to keep up with those guys. Too old. I'd probably have a heart attack.

[garnabby]

Hi Kid,

Well, when I'm playing with my students I usually play green ($25) at their request. ABS Avg bet size is less than 2 units in Bac and usually near the same in BJ.

When alone I usually play black ($100) and I'm slightly looser with my progs so my avg is slightly over 2. When I hit a really hot Bac game I'll change my base to 2 but that only raises my abs about 1 unit. That occurs more frequently in BJ so I find myself playing 146 with blacks. If all goes very well I might move up to 2 8 12. My top BJ students go much higher.

When I was younger I frequently played double blacks but I don't do that much anymore. We have several members that play $500 and even $1000 but I don't even try to keep up with those guys. Too old. I'd probably have a heart attack.

Not exactly, "putting your money where your mouth is" as you dare others, eh sillE (Ellis spelt backward)?

And you say there're a lot of doctors, lawyers, et al. Too bad they can't/don't know any more about the game than you.

BTW, whatever happened to KIDDO, the guy who was making all those purple bets until he (suddenly) stopped posting about it?

[Ellis]

After a brief stint in the hospital Kiddo is alive and well and has been posting every day for weeks.

Sille! That's about your speed.

[garnabby]

After a brief stint in the hospital Kiddo is alive and well and has been posting every day for weeks.

Sille! That's about your speed.

sillE,

Still waiting for the remainder of his 100-shoe test of one of your systems months ago... i think he made it to around shoe 35 before "giving up", at least on the public-forum where that test began.

Anyways, there're plenty of old posts of his on VlSroulette about all his "big wins" long before he hooked up with you.

The point was that it doesn't matter where one starts, as much as where the end... and BTC surely is the end, just as you advertise it.

Maybe it's some sort of a cure for chronic gambling, ha.

[Ellis]

"Hooked up with me"? We've never met or talked on the phone or even Emailed each other. I don't think we even live in the same country. Kiddo is just another private member and has done many 100 shoe tests but so have many other members. They're all posted on the private forum. I don't follow Roulette, 2 games is more than enough. But I don't hold it against anyone. If you had some point I guess I just don't get it.

BTW, as I mentioned, back when I was your age I played double blacks rather consistently. I guess thats too miniscule for you since you mock it. So, praytell, what do you play?

[thebaccaratkid]

Ellis garnabby means hooked up as in joined your club, i play 100 pounds a hand when i won my 15 grand last year, that's about 160 us dollars currently.

but you have us all puzzled Ellis for a man who says he wins all the time you sure don't take advantage of your ability,i wonder why that is ??

[Ellis]

Good question kid. It wasn't due to lack of money. I was a millionaire shortly after completing my books NBJ and WCB Not to mention In Search Of. My first Baccarat book, the only Baccarat book at that time, did 2/3 of a million in the first two weeks. But I was well off before that having held high positions in major corporatios, G.E. , G.D., Singer, Diebold. And I was one of the highest paid teachers at SUNY because I also taught for them in industry so I wasn't limited to the 15 hours a week classroom time. I also did a decade in the military.

But I was a notorious BJ player and won every day. Not every table mind you but it didn't take me long to sniff out the best table in the casino. That's why I wrote a book on that subject alone, In Search Of.

But at that level of play, as I hope you find some day in your own play, Your whole objective changes from winning to keeping from getting barred. High stakes play begins to work dead against you. I was not successful at all with that end of the job.

I was barred from BJ almost immediately at Tunica. It took 5 years for them to let me play again. And that was only because I bring a lot of players with me. Ya'll will find out if your play gets good enough. But they don't bar low stakes players.

[Ellis]

Oh and don't forget inflation. I played full time in the late '80's and early 90's. At that time green play was high stakes. 90% of the tables were $5. Black play was relegated to upstairs private high stakes rooms and scrutinized far more thoroughly than it is today. Everything has about tripled since then. My house that I bought in the late '80s for $109,000 sold for $400,000. Ha, my '67 4.2 XKE Roadster that I bought new for $5000 is worth about $200,000 today. Wish I still had it! Who knew?

[natural9]

Good question kid. It wasn't due to lack of money. I was a millionaire shortly after completing my books NBJ and WCB Not to mention In Search Of. My first Baccarat book, the only Baccarat book at that time, did 2/3 of a million in the first two weeks. But I was well off before that having held high positions in major corporatios, G.E. , G.D., Singer, Diebold. And I was one of the highest paid teachers at SUNY because I also taught for them in industry so I wasn't limited to the 15 hours a week classroom time. I also did a decade in the military.

But I was a notorious BJ player and won every day. Not every table mind you but it didn't take me long to sniff out the best table in the casino. That's why I wrote a book on that subject alone, In Search Of.

But at that level of play, as I hope you find some day in your own play, Your whole objective changes from winning to keeping from getting barred. High stakes play begins to work dead against you. I was not successful at all with that end of the job.

I was barred from BJ almost immediately at Tunica. It took 5 years for them to let me play again. And that was only because I bring a lot of players with me. Ya'll will find out if your play gets good enough. But they don't bar low stakes players.

Yawns

[ADulay]

Ha, my '67 4.2 XKE Roadster that I bought new for $5000 is worth about $200,000 today. Wish I still had it! Who knew?

Well, try as I might, I have stayed out of the conversation as long as I could. The comment of the 67 Jag has to be countered!!
I bought my 1969 Corvette convertible in 1969 for $5011. It's one of the few prices I remember exactly and you mentioning the $5000 XKE brought back a flood of good memories. At the military post I was on, every Viet-Nam vet instructor pilot had a Jag, a Corvette or something else rather exotic at the time. One guy had a right hand drive ORIGINAL 240Z !!

Thanks for bringing that up!!

AD

[anotherusernametaken]

Ellis. You made millions from book sales and seminars and casino visits and real estate and ... Why are you charging people for questionable information. Just put it out there and you will have more people with access to it who can make it better. user

[Ellis]

Well, try as I might, I have stayed out of the conversation as long as I could. The comment of the 67 Jag has to be countered!!
I bought my 1969 Corvette convertible in 1969 for $5011. It's one of the few prices I remember exactly and you mentioning the $5000 XKE brought back a flood of good memories. At the military post I was on, every Viet-Nam vet instructor pilot had a Jag, a Corvette or something else rather exotic at the time. One guy had a right hand drive ORIGINAL 240Z !!

Thanks for bringing that up!!

AD

Hi AD, Yeah, it was the same at my base Fort Sam Houston Texas, But I remember the pay back then. How'd they do that? Of course that was a little earlier. But yep, its one of those prices you remember. Mine was exactly $5000 the brightest red you ever saw. 4 speed stick, 4th gear rubber screech. 160 MPH easy. I don't know after that???

[Ellis]

Ellis. You made millions from book sales and seminars and casino visits and real estate and ... Why are you charging people for questionable information. Just put it out there and you will have more people with access to it who can make it better. user

That is an excellent point user. In fact, I was just talking this morning to my top BJ player that very topic. Back in the day when i put out 1800 sales letters, I'd get 400 responses easy in spite of the fact that my prices were 5 times higher. Today maybe 1 or 2 BJ and 10 or 15 Bac in spite of the fact that far more people play BJ than Bac. Go figure.

I was playing low stakes ($50) BJ last trip and drew a crowd at every table I played. The dealers and pit bosses freaked out. I don't think any of them ever saw a BJ game beat before. Geez, I made a few key insurance bets and the crowd didn't even know what an insurance bet was. I signaled to hit a pair of Aces and the dealer had to ask the pit boss if it was legal! Geez, at least in my day everyone knew the rules.

Back in my day a casino was considered too small if it didn't have at least a hundred BJ tables. Today you've got to look for them in the middle of all those junk game tables. Even Bac tables are getting fewer and fewer with almost no Big Bac tables left. They are relics.

But when you note that BJ is played for hundreds of dollars while these guys watch Poker played for millions every day on TV, the lack of interest isn't surprising. I'm a relic too. I guess we all are.

[Ellis]

Yawns

Hmmm, tough audience!

[garnabby]

... 160 MPH easy. I don't know after that???

sillE,

W/o special race-car gear, any car will begin to "fly" (or hydro-plane) at about 150 mph.



ADulay,

We used a thing called a "fuzz-buster" back then, which used to pick up also the airplanes overhead... which are illegal now.

One of my brothers used to work as a "trouble-shooter" for a world-wide milling company. He was heavily into the cars, as were a few of his company's clients. He entered a few of the real "cannonball runs", from somewhere in the northeast to LA, if i recall.

Turns out that sort of thing was a big waste of money, and time(?)... lucky if those "old cars" are worth $10,000 any more, at least w/o a lot of modifications. I have a cousin who does just that in TO. (I was never into the "fire-engine red" scene, being more focused on looking after my own body and mind... and not ashamed to admit it.)

[Ellis]

Yeah, I remember the fuzz busters. As you know XKE's are built to race. The Jag was pretty solid at 160. I used to do the sports car circuit and also ran a Lotus Super 7. I did the Belgian Grand Prix circuit in a Maserati or however you spell it. You're absolutely right, a complete waste of money, just like sailing, golfing, diving, fishing or any other for fun sport. I just liked life in the fast lane in spite of the inherent danger. Ya tend to get bored designing products for somebody else all day long but the pay was good. BTW modern NASCAR averages closer to 200 MPH, not that I'm a buff. And they seldom go airborne. Well, except.....
But I drew the line at sky diving and bungy jumping. Now those guys, they're crazy.

[ADulay]

Turns out that sort of thing was a big waste of money, and time(?)... lucky if those "old cars" are worth $10,000

I'd admit that the handling of those late 60's fast cars was "acceptable" at best and my old 1995 Cadillac Seville would have probably out handled the Corvette too, but it was towards the end of the 60's and a great time to be alive! Especially after surviving Viet-nam!! I'd still like to find another 69 Corvette set up the way I had it back then. Brutally fast for a 20 something at the time!

Anyway, for those of you who think I'm a fictional character or something, here's both Corvettes!! Besides, it's a great shot of me in 1969 with the Corvette and me in 2009 with my current Corvette!!

40 years in those two pictures!!

AD

[thebaccaratkid]

Ellis. You made millions from book sales and seminars and casino visits and real estate and ... Why are you charging people for questionable information. Just put it out there and you will have more people with access to it who can make it better. user

good point usernametaken what do you say Ellis ?

[Ellis]

That time will come very shortly now. Both NBJ and WCB are both full book length. About 400 pages each in pocket book format. In Search Of the Winning Game is about 80 pages so I'll add it to one or the other. They are currently on sale at Amazon but I'll reduce their prices when I release my novel. My old Bac Books are already starting to go on Amazon at about 10 or 15 each.

I doubt there is much in those old Bac books you guys don't alredy know. NBJ and WCB are a whole different story. They are a far better way to play BJ than Basic Strategy / Card Counting. NBJ WCB works better today than when I wrote those books. The game is much easier today than it was then. But BJ is also dying out. Not much interest anymore. Today its all Poker. Back then US casinos were almost totally devoted to Blackjack. Today they are mostly slot machines junk table games and Poker Rooms. I never could get into Poker. I just don't like the idea of playing against your friends. BJ, sure, you are playing against the casino. But mostly you're playing against yourself. Same with Bac.

[garnabby]

That time will come very shortly now.

Well, besides the cult-techniques of, egs, convincing others to easily give up their good personal identities for an empty and corrupted "sh*t-shooter" misrepresented one, claiming everything is "either (this) or (that)", and luring them with the "what if" it's true (he has) a winning system... there's always the people-soon-forget, old "what goes around, comes around". Politicians, thrive on the latter-most trait in society in general, though of course unlike the cult-sellers, eg, they don't actively try to instill that in their constituents first, by relentless repetition of the same spiel... the politicians move ahead with the times. And it's not 'either Ellis or myself", as he chose to portary it... i never said i was in any way competing with him; never said i even had a completely-proved way to beat this game yet, to show anyone if i wanted to. (Only that Ellis has a sure way to waste the most time/money while losing... not to mention the embarrassing cultish and "boot-licking" characteristics he draws out in others over there.)

We just read about Ellis' rich-kid/name-dropping (fantasies, of course,) and then ADulay's almost wringingly-engendered, but sincere, nostalgic lament follow-up. But as i posted on the GG, there is absolutely no argument for the 15-shoe winning systems. "Nags", as i call those, are just ways one "beats himself up", fretting over things he has forgot, or which others "mistakenly" claim to have found. Anything of value will be "remembered" when it pops up again in whichever form; and anything as simple as a casino-game system can be found equally easy by any one, or more, of us. (LOL, thinking back to Ellis' remark about SAP, "Don't try this yourself, it's harder than "fussion" (, ie, fusion)".) No need to buy one of those non-existent "million-copies sold books" cum crudely- written and typed up "rags" from a site like Ebay. Isn't that "internet guy" with nothing better to do than attempt to discredit really just Ellis, himself. Are there any posts to the contrary of his on this board?

Nostalgia is for those who can't let it go... a useless pastime, and an even greater waste of time than any activity however unjustified. When i was in high school, some of us use to sit around and "talk" about the "glory days" of grade-school. How stupid was that? What the hell did any of us know about glory then? Goodness, our time is now, make the most of it.

Participate in the useful debate (, anywhere but at the BTC). Freely offer up your ideas, because someone may help you further those. Progress to something worthwhile, at your own steady rate; not by jumbling and fumbling to the next "flavor of the month". At least go to the GG, where someone has began posting even his recent junk for free.

As for myself, i'm not here or there to "teach" anyone anything. School was a "jail" right, glorified day-care. And just because no one has all the answers, that doesn't make the likes of Ellis always right, as with the "either-or" implications.

One day, while working at the Oshawa, Ontario, airport for a military sub-contractor doing search-and-rescue research (, actually searching for Russian tanks buried in the Arctic snow, using satellite infrared-imaging,) Paul Newman flew in for the Nascar circuit races near there. The secretaries couldn't wait for him to get off the plane, to stop at the bar for a drink... i didn't even get out of my chair to look. Still don't care that i missed it, or other such "opportunities"... because the real ones come only from within each of us.

But... don't those words by Ellis at the top sound so "ominous", in retrospect?

[thebaccaratkid]

I was just thinking about why Ellis is so un popular and its because he thinks his way is the only way and hes quick to discredit anyone elces ideas.

and what does SUNNY stand for ?

[Ellis]

Certainly unpopular with several guys on this forum. That's for sure for whatever reason. But overall, no way. I've had about 4000 students. The vast majority are still close friends. Got 3 calls just yesterday from Vegas alone. Questions about conditions. None of the 3 even know each other but all three doing well since I taught them nearly 20 years ago. It might surprise you to know that some of the guys on this forum are also on my private forum and take you few with a grain of salt as I do.

Its S.U.N.Y and it stands for State University of New York, one of the largest universities in the world. Why? What's that got to do with the price of tomatoes?

[Ellis]

BTW, Garnabby, I watched a lenthy TV program last night. "Super Cars Exposed". Might be educational for you. As most red blooded American enthusiasts know, there are many, many European cars in that class. About the slowest was the latest entry, an out of the box Lexus ISF, 175 MPH, only $56,000. 4 dr family sedan. No roadsters mentioned and most were not even sports cars. They were mostly 4 dr family sedans. Some 12 cyl. Some turbo charged 6's. A shocking number do 200 MPH out of the box.The fastest mentioned does 232 MPH. But I don't think it fair to call that one out of the box since its manufactured from a BMW base. Strangely the super car class is enjoying excellent sales and does not seem subject to the general car market depression. That might explain the Lexus and Cadillac recent enty. I know Lincoln is trying to get in with their new double turbo charged 6 and I think they might make it.

The only American car mentioned was that new Cadillac, 550 HP, 0-60 in 3.5 sec. Looks like a plain ol 4dr Caddy to me. They didn't mention its top speed but did say it had the fastest lap time in one of their tests. But the gear ratio in American cars is geared to the American speed limits. While European and some Japanese cars are geard to the no limit Autobon system. My 4.2 XKE was, of course Brittish. But I wouldn't bet against the Caddy doing 160. Some of the cars mentioned have been around since the sixties. Oh, and none of the cars tested went airborne.