Thread: From Seattle I'm new to the Forums!

Hi Everyone,

I live in Seattle and I luv to play baccarat.

We have several Indian Casinos here in the Seattle area. ($500 bet limit)

I have been playing baccarat for about two years now and I have seen it all!

A few of the casinos in my area allow "gallery bets".
You can place bets on the lines if you're in the crowd and the dealers collect commissions as they go.
Like the brand new Snoqualmie Casino.

These are the only types of casino's that I will play baccarat in.

I have lots of thoughts and ideas that I want to bring forward and maybe these ideas will help a few people here.

And I want to learn from you guys as well.

Good Luck to everyone!

Monkey7

Monkey7,

What do you mean by, "A few of the casinos in my area allow "gallery bets". You can place bets on the lines if you're in the crowd and the dealers collect commissions as they go" ?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by garnabby

Monkey7,

What do you mean by, "A few of the casinos in my area allow "gallery bets". You can place bets on the lines if you're in the crowd and the dealers collect commissions as they go" ?

Thanks.

A "gallery bet" is a bet made by someone standing behind the people who are already sitting down and playing at the table. You reach your arm between two players who are already seated at the table and you place your bet on top of the white line in the Banker or Player regions.

Some casinos in my area don't allow this type of betting.

Monkey7

Right and then settle your commission each hand because there is no commission slot for you.

"Monkey" I like that! or you could have used "face card". Welcome to the group Monkey7, I'm new too.

ellis, i practice with lee jones software, not his pro or gold edition, just the free one, have you or anyone in your group ever used this software? i like using it and have for several years, but i still question it being legit and what i mean by that is, when i go on a losing streak it appears the software is making the decision if i win or lose, i even try to "trick" it like what i did today, i was betting strictly bank and couldn't buy a win so i switched to player, wouldn't you know it 9 straight bankers immediately after the switch, it just seems like once it turns on the losing, there is absolutely no way to win, course i've seen this same thing in real play too, but i was just wonderin' if you know anything about this software
thanks

you are not alone, I am sure every baccarat player has experienced a losing streak they can't forget. I was playing a few weeks ago upstairs in the grange room of the skycity adelaide casino and was doing alright, up a couple a grand and then they change the dealer and from there on, I coudn't win a hand and neither did anybody else on the table. I even sat back a couple of hands to try an asses the situation but that didn't help either. One of those freaks of gambling

Originally Posted by takethe win

ellis, i practice with lee jones software, not his pro or gold edition, just the free one, have you or anyone in your group ever used this software? i like using it and have for several years, but i still question it being legit and what i mean by that is, when i go on a losing streak it appears the software is making the decision if i win or lose, i even try to "trick" it like what i did today, i was betting strictly bank and couldn't buy a win so i switched to player, wouldn't you know it 9 straight bankers immediately after the switch, it just seems like once it turns on the losing, there is absolutely no way to win, course i've seen this same thing in real play too, but i was just wonderin' if you know anything about this software
thanks

Hmmm I used to use Golden Nugget which might have been before your time. But I had my suspicions about that one as well. Esp with a casino's name on it. It seemed like every time you used a negative prog, a term I coined BTW, it would not allow you to win. So I ended up net betting U1D1 M2. That means up 1 when you lose down 1 when you win but always follow a 1 bet with a 2 whether the 1 wins or loses. You'll see why when you try it. The net bet simply means one prog runs straight down P with an equal prog running straight down B. By win or lose I'm talking about your column entry , not your table bet. To get your table bet you simply subtract the lo entry from the high entry and table bet the difference on the side with the higher entry.

I suspect that if you try that against your program you'll break the bank every time. I played mine up to $50,000 hundreds of times w/o ever getting to a bet beyond the table limits.

But I STRONGLY caution you not to ever try this in a casino. The draw downs are far too great. See, your computer has unlimited funds. YOU don't.

I posted this computer trick on my own forum MANY years ago along with the same cautionary note. Lenard Benson stole it and had it up for sale for thousands of dollars 2 days later. His punishment was that all his players lost because they couldn't survive the drawdowns. Geez, even though I warned him and predicted exactly that. I seem to remember he called it Ying Yang or some such foolishness..

But it IS fun to kill your computer with it.

There are ways of playing it far more safely by swapping the two progs strategically to cancel out Player Bank Disparity. But then Leonard might be lurking and I'm getting tired of teaching that guy how to play Baccarat. And BJ BTW.

Originally Posted by dejavu x

you are not alone, I am sure every baccarat player has experienced a losing streak they can't forget. I was playing a few weeks ago upstairs in the grange room of the skycity adelaide casino and was doing alright, up a couple a grand and then they change the dealer and from there on, I coudn't win a hand and neither did anybody else on the table. I even sat back a couple of hands to try an asses the situation but that didn't help either. One of those freaks of gambling

Perhaps but I've got a question for you dj. When you got the new dealer, did he deal exactly the same way one card at a time from the dealer shoe first P then B then P then B?

OR

Did he speed deal all the cards to his right hand and then snatch 2 for Player leaving the other two for Bank?

Think carefully about it before you answer.

This is an old Turning Stone trick started by a dealer named Phillip. But Phillip taught it to a whole host of other dealers. While it looks totally innocent, the dealer can totally control which side wins under this arrangement. And noone the wiser.

thank you ellis for your response, i talked to you once before on the telephone, somewhere around 12 years ago, i think you were still in new york or somewhere around there, then i was in tunica a few years ago at the horseshoe, and someone was watching me bet up 1, down 1 and asked if i knew you, i said not really, but i had talked to you before, anyway he said you had moved somewhere close to tunica, maybe arkansas, i don't really remember, we talked about your old level 1 system, i don't remember the pattern but you would switch after so many loss's, i think you said that after much play you felt it better to just go to the banker side and ride it out, we talked alittle about the fib system too, now to get back to my dilema with this software i practice on, it is not a casino software program, i am really surprised at how many baccarat players have never heard of it. this is the link Baccarat System for a PROVEN Baccarat Strategy scroll down on the left side till you see free software, download and try it, it has the best layout of any software i've ever used including the casino's, the scorecard, the stats it keeps for you, the ease of use are really nice, but if it's not accurate, then it's worth nothing, i really hesitate to say this, but i will anyway, i downloaded his predictor system where you try it before you buy it, it plays and bets for you, upon paying for it the details of how to bet are revealed, i would run this thing all night, you can set it to run hundreds of shoes, wouldn't you know it? it never lost, i thought it was the greatest discovery in gambling history, unfortunately in real time casino play it didn't work so good, so i guess what i'm trying to say is, if you can manipulate the software on one system why couldn't you do it on all of them? but why would you do it on the free system where you have absouletly nothing to gain from it?...i don't know, i just seem like a lone wolf in regards to this software, i've invested 11 years of playing with it and i wish i could get some feed back from other users, but i don't think there's too many of them, but i'd appreciate it if you could take a look sometime when you're not too busy
thanks ellis

Originally Posted by takethe win

thank you ellis for your response, i talked to you once before on the telephone, somewhere around 12 years ago, i think you were still in new york or somewhere around there, then i was in tunica a few years ago at the horseshoe, and someone was watching me bet up 1, down 1 and asked if i knew you, i said not really, but i had talked to you before, anyway he said you had moved somewhere close to tunica, maybe arkansas, i don't really remember, we talked about your old level 1 system, i don't remember the pattern but you would switch after so many loss's, i think you said that after much play you felt it better to just go to the banker side and ride it out, we talked alittle about the fib system too, now to get back to my dilema with this software i practice on, it is not a casino software program, i am really surprised at how many baccarat players have never heard of it. this is the link Baccarat System for a PROVEN Baccarat Strategy scroll down on the left side till you see free software, download and try it, it has the best layout of any software i've ever used including the casino's, the scorecard, the stats it keeps for you, the ease of use are really nice, but if it's not accurate, then it's worth nothing, i really hesitate to say this, but i will anyway, i downloaded his predictor system where you try it before you buy it, it plays and bets for you, upon paying for it the details of how to bet are revealed, i would run this thing all night, you can set it to run hundreds of shoes, wouldn't you know it? it never lost, i thought it was the greatest discovery in gambling history, unfortunately in real time casino play it didn't work so good, so i guess what i'm trying to say is, if you can manipulate the software on one system why couldn't you do it on all of them? but why would you do it on the free system where you have absouletly nothing to gain from it?...i don't know, i just seem like a lone wolf in regards to this software, i've invested 11 years of playing with it and i wish i could get some feed back from other users, but i don't think there's too many of them, but i'd appreciate it if you could take a look sometime when you're not too busy
thanks ellis

Lee Jones! I thought that name rang a bell. Yeah, it's neat to watch his system automatically beat shoes. Should have been your first clue. I thought he had been run out of town. According to people who got suckered in its pure scam. A guy played it in vegas along side one of my players for 3 days. He lost every shoe to the tune of 40,000 and threw the betting strategy on the floor. My player, Don, called me to ask if he should just bet against this guy, you know, pull a GK. So I asked how much is he down? $40,000. How much are you up? $50,000 playing SKIP. No, keep doing what you're doing but if you start losing THEN bet against him. I said, why don't you take the poor bastard to dinner and teach him SKIP. It's the least we could do for him.

I get calls from casinos all the time. One night, in the middle of the night I got a call from Australia. It seems 4 drunks playing together discovered that they all had an Uncle Ellis. Yeah, yeah guys that's great but do you know what time it is?

I lived in Saratoga Springs, a famous horse racing town in upstate New York when you called me. Not that I remember. The call I mean. And right, I retired in Arkansas so everybody knows me in Tunica.

A few of us are playing there later this month. If you're not doing anything feel free to drop in on us and introduce yourself. We'll be playing Gold Strike/Horseshoe. I'll be registered at Gold Strike under the name of Ellis Ripple from the 27th on. Don't let our ages scare you. We all play pretty good.

thanks ellis, i really do appreciate the invite to be able to actually sit down at the same table with you, especially after reading this on the other thread

"But I'm just an old man now with fond memories. My site is just an old man's hobby devoted to those who would like to take advantage of my experience. Those who don't, that's fine with me. But its there for those who do, not for hecklers. I don't have the time to waste. I enjoy playing with my students now and then like again this month. (for green) They never lose when they play with me. It brings a certain alertness out in them."

you know ellis, you're considered one of the best, if not the best baccarat player in the world, no one can take that away from you...another time when i was out in vegas i met up with a guy from texas, he's the one who turned me on to your method of play, he actually had been to one of your seminars, that's how i got your phone number in new york etc.... i will probably always play some form of the up 1 down 1 system, it is the most powerful way to play i know of, it may not be infallible but it is definitely a strong way to play and i learned it indirectly from you, through one of your students....he told me that after the seminar you all actually went to cesasors palace where you played with real money, in real time... you won your 20 units for the shoe, colored up, and received a standing ovation.... that would of been somethin' to see...there's a big difference between someone selling you a system and you never even get to meet the guy, let alone watch him play, and one who actually puts his money where his mouth is, i have to commend you for that.

i won't be able to come to tunica this particular time, but sometime i'm gonna definitely make it a point to be there when you are.

thanks again ellis

And thank you TTW!

Originally Posted by takethe win

You know ellis, you're considered one of the best, if not the best baccarat player in the world.

takethe win,

Perhaps you, yourself, would care to elaborate (in detail), given your usage of the word, "considered" as below? Eg, has Ellis won any major baccarat-tournaments, and if so, where and when? Do you possess any published books/manuals he may have penned? Can you personally vouch for anything else he claims, or even for any of those persons you think can?

After all, it was you who brought up the word, "naive".



con·sid·ered (kən sid′ərd)


adjective

1. arrived at after careful thought; thought out
2. highly regarded; respected

Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2005 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

hi garnabby, you can tell alot about a man by the way he talks, little things like, if he's sincere, or means well. i've always held a person in high regard when he was willing to teach what he had learned, even more so if it was from hard earned experience. i often wonder, if i ever do truly find an infallible way to win, will i share it or keep the secret to myself....i have hung out in casino's most all of my life, i use to stand outside the golden nugget in las vegas 51 years ago when i was 5 years old and point at certain slot machines for people to play, point i'm tryin' to make is, when you live this life, you meet up with people that also live this life, and by consider ellis to be the best baccarat player in the world, that doesn't come from me, that comes from people who know him and watched him play, and that includes dealers of baccarat (and not just one dealer,and not just one city) who played against ellis....garnabby it's easy to tell that you are a very intelligent person and the little bit i'v come to know you through your posts has impressed me, i believe you have what it takes to become a winner, we're all fighting the same opponent, we should never stop learning, i think it's possible to learn something from every single person in this forum, fighting in-house is not gonna accomplish anything, let ellis do his thing, let me do mine, you do yours and then lets share what we learn....you mentioned tournament play, most of the players i know don't play in them, it's just two different styles of play, you probably remember the 21 tournaments where you might get down to the last few seconds then bet it all on just a hope, i don't think very many serious baccarat players even mess with it. garnabby, i think you should go to tunica, sit down and play with ellis, who knows it could change your life.

Originally Posted by takethe win

hi garnabby, you can tell alot about a man by the way he talks, little things like, if he's sincere, or means well. i've always held a person in high regard when he was willing to teach what he had learned, even more so if it was from hard earned experience. i often wonder, if i ever do truly find an infallible way to win, will i share it or keep the secret to myself....i have hung out in casino's most all of my life, i use to stand outside the golden nugget in las vegas 51 years ago when i was 5 years old and point at certain slot machines for people to play, point i'm tryin' to make is, when you live this life, you meet up with people that also live this life, and by consider ellis to be the best baccarat player in the world, that doesn't come from me, that comes from people who know him and watched him play, and that includes dealers of baccarat (and not just one dealer,and not just one city) who played against ellis....garnabby it's easy to tell that you are a very intelligent person and the little bit i'v come to know you through your posts has impressed me, i believe you have what it takes to become a winner, we're all fighting the same opponent, we should never stop learning, i think it's possible to learn something from every single person in this forum, fighting in-house is not gonna accomplish anything, let ellis do his thing, let me do mine, you do yours and then lets share what we learn....you mentioned tournament play, most of the players i know don't play in them, it's just two different styles of play, you probably remember the 21 tournaments where you might get down to the last few seconds then bet it all on just a hope, i don't think very many serious baccarat players even mess with it. garnabby, i think you should go to tunica, sit down and play with ellis, who knows it could change your life.

Hmm I wonder if Twister ever worked and all the others that were churned out

Twister works very well, always did and still does. The base system losses to a 3113 which, being an 8 play pattern, comes up once every eight shoes on avg. When it does, however Twister provides a way to get around that.

But a professional or even a good player does not hang his hat on a single system. THAT is being naive Natural 9. Some days your system will work just fine as Twister did for Smitty, a Canadian high roller. He got barred from every casino in his area but one. And that casino was coming up with multiple 3113s in every shoe Smitty played. I saw the shoes. Single and multiple 3113s in ten shoes. Coincidence? Orchestration? It doesn't matter a hoot. There it was and Smitty's playing days were over if he stuck to Twister.

A system that works one day fails the next. A system that works in one casino fails in the next. Nobody ever went pro in Baccarat with one system in their quiver. No army ever went to battle with only one weapon type... and won.

If there were, however, some rule that says you can only play one system, knowing what I know, I would pick SAP or SKOR. They are 2Hi universal systems. Most of my players play one or the other because they don't have to deal with shoe types or table selection. You make less but you make it more often.

But there is no such rule and personally I like to take advantage of that fact.

There is no Baccarat game ever dealt that could not be beat by the right system.

When I used to do public Baccarat exhibitions I naturally had to play the system that was the subject of the siminar. In that confined situation the task becomes to pick the right table. THAT is where talent comes in to play. You can teach a baboon to follow a system. But you can't teach a baboon how to pick the right table.

In my 20 years of seminars I usually did a Bac seminar on Fri night and a BJ seminar on Sat night. I did the Bac exhibition late Fri night because it doesn't matter much when you play Bac. But I did the BJ exhibition Sunday during the day because in BJ timing (when you play and what table you play) is EVERYTHING. I didn't win every exhibition because of great play. I won because of great selection. And BTW, I didn't always win the first table but at least I knew to change quickly. Once I had to change casinos. I simply couldn't find a good nickel game at Excaliber and the audience had asked me to play nickels. Nickel games are the toughest games in BJ! So I moved the whole exhibition to MGM and absolutely killed the first $100 table I sat to. I don't mind telling you I was a little pissed at the time and played with a vengence going straight to the 146 at third head to head.

So anyone who tells me its all random, well I just walk away. I'm 20 years of living proof to the contrary. I realize immediately I'm talking to someone who has no idea of what he's talking about. What's the point? He probably got everything he knows from the internet. I divide the internet into two categories: the scammers and the slammers. Rarely do you see any words of experienced wisdom. That's what makes it so refreshing when you do.

I remember you natural 9. It's just not as easy as you seem to think. It takes a whole lot more work than you were willing to put in. But this game CAN be beat by those with enough devotion and steadfastness. I've proved that again and again and again and I continue to do so. You give up far too easy. And BJ is even harder. Attempts to discredit me won't help you. It's YOU you need to work on. I already proved my wears and my talents a long time ago. You can't change history. It's a waste of time to try. Yours, not mine.

Quicky pro Bac Lesson:

There are 3 bases in Baccarat: BvP, OvR, and OTvT. So OK, you don't know the abbreviations: Bank vs Player, Opposites vs Repeats, Opposite Time Before Last vs Time Before Last.

Each Base has 3 directions: It can favor +, It can favor -, or it can favor 0. To play pro, you must have the talent to recognize all nine shoe types at a glance from the tote board or player score cards. You need to be able to do this W/O breaking stride down the isle. That's already 9 systems you must know to play pro. Now you know why I never play casinos that have no tote boards. Checking score cards is too time consumming but I had to START that way because tote boards hadn't been invented yet. Neither had mini bac. Neither had shuffle machines. When I played full time pro my day started at 7am. Because I learned to tell what the casino was going for by watching the card prep. I nearly ALWAYS won my morning sessions. They established my bank roll for the day.

But there is a 10th type: The few tables that don't follow any of the 9 types. Those tables you must know to avoid like the plague.

When a base favors 0 you net bet that base.

When a base favors + or - you SS (single side) bet the best system you know for that base. That is why you are constantly looking for better systems.

Now, once you recognize the game types and correctly match the system to the game type, you must know effective cash mgt. Most cash mgt actually hurts you.

See, its not easy. And BJ is much harder. And let me let you in on another little secret. Card counting is completely useless and has been ever since the casinos introduced multi deck with a cut off card. The BJ channels are just now waking up to that fact which I have been teaching for 25 years. BTW, you can also teach a baboon to card count.

Now my private players except for a handful do NOT want to play pro. It's too much work. They want a simple 2 Hi system they can go and make a little money with most every time and SAP was too complex. So I invented SKOR 2Hi to serve that purpose. They love it.

Then there are the few who DO want to play pro as I play. I work with them as well.

And then I go to other sites and read all this pure garbage about me written by Johnny come latelys who have no idea of what I teach or what they are talking about and got their whole gambling education from the internet and became "experts" overnight. Like I said: Scammers and Slammers. The Scammers try to get ahead by simply cheating you. The Slammers try to get ahead by slamming those who are ahead. There is pitifully little in between but hurrah for those few who are.

Oh, I should have quickly metioned before someone gets the wrong idea that I don't put your BF.com in either category. You seem to me to be a seeker and a sorter forum. And that helps everybody - as long as you are accurate.

Monkey, I have to agree with you as far as Ellis sounding sincere. Also, I have an old boyfriend from college who went to a seminar about Blackjack that Elis did in Colorado in 1992 (I think, I'm trying to remember my year by the classes we shared.. haha.. getting old!)

Anyway, my question to Garnabby.. do you guys work together, you and Ellis? Because he (Ellis) seems way too eloquent and has documented his achievements thru various media (long before the Internet) for you to be trying to make him sound like a scammer or a kook, KWIM? Are you guys doing the good cop/bad cop to drive traffic here? Because if you are really trying to make him look like a goof, it is you, Garnabby, who is looking goofy.

Thanks but good Lord man the card values and suits don't have a thing to do with it!

Poker Chip, I think it was Take the Win you agree with but they tag team around here so it's easy to get confused. Poor Monkey hasn't been able to get a word in on his own thread with us hogs. I think its time I got back to my own forum. The guys know me over there and many have played with me and some have been to my seminars and exhibitions and know I was high money winner in the million dollar World Championship of Baccarat several members having been at the tournament. I can get a lot more done when I don't have to keep proving myself to guys new to the game. BTW are you a pro poker player?

Hey Poker Chip: It all came back to me last night. I remember that seminar but I think it was '91. We did it in Denver at some beautiful modern auditorium that I can't remember the name of. In fact we decided to do two BJ seminars that beautiful day because the auditorium wasn't big enough to hold all those who turned out. Afterwards the locals took us to some Road House type bar that had two BJ tables. But they were very easy pickings and we signed up the whole bar. The next day they took us to a place called Black Hawk casino that looked straight out of the Old West. My whole staff played but we all got the boot after a few shoes. But I remember the owner was nice enough to buy us all dinner as long as we didn't play anymore. That's what I mean by "fond memories".

Originally Posted by takethe win

garnabby, i think you should go to tunica, sit down and play with ellis, who knows it could change your life.

Ha, that wouldn't help. Garnabby has seen me play before. He watched me win 16 units in 15 minutes playing green which I always play when I'm playing with members. That's a rate of $1600 an hour. So what does he do? He complains that the system I was playing was too simple! Garnabby will ALWAYS find something to complain about. That's his thing.

Originally Posted by Ellis

Hey Poker Chip: It all came back to me last night. I remember that seminar but I think it was '91. We did it in Denver at some beautiful modern auditorium that I can't remember the name of. In fact we decided to do two BJ seminars that beautiful day because the auditorium wasn't big enough to hold all those who turned out. Afterwards the locals took us to some Road House type bar that had two BJ tables. But they were very easy pickings and we signed up the whole bar. The next day they took us to a place called Black Hawk casino that looked straight out of the Old West. My whole staff played but we all got the boot after a few shoes. But I remember the owner was nice enough to buy us all dinner as long as we didn't play anymore. That's what I mean by "fond memories".

ellis, i think you ought to write an autobiography detailing all your experiences, it'd be a great read, you have a prolific writing style that's easy to read and is very interesting, us ol' gamblers would really enjoy it, plus it's just a good way to preserve your legacy.

Originally Posted by Ellis

Ha, that wouldn't help. Garnabby has seen me play before. He watched me win 16 units in 15 minutes playing green which I always play when I'm playing with members. That's a rate of $1600 an hour. So what does he do? He complains that the system I was playing was too simple! Garnabby will ALWAYS find something to complain about. That's his thing.

And Ellis keeps lying... a real coward to even make such unsubstantiated allegations. Yes, "lying". I have no qualms about that word with him, given his silliness from one end of the spectrum to the other, now for all to see here.

Of course, any one else is still welcome to try to prove a single thing about him to the contrary. But don't start with Wikipedia, i doubt he's in there with the all the "scammers and slammers".

Are you denying you came to watch us in Vegas and made that exact post afterwards? Are you saying that wasn't you? That you were identified incorrectly?

Originally Posted by Ellis

My player, Don, called me to ask if he should just bet against this guy, you know, pull a GK. So I asked how much is he down? $40,000. How much are you up? $50,000 playing SKIP. No, keep doing what you're doing but if you start losing THEN bet against him.

The only way for that statement to be logical, and consistent with itself, would be to have SKIP (/SKOR/etc) be the "bet against the losers" thing... which is all Ellis' "casino-orchestration theory" (actually logically) boils down to; however then also even (mis-)appied by himself.

Before i forget, here's one of his own paid members (named Marc) on this, and offering up some better enhancements to boot:

Beat The Casino Forums "Where The Pros Are" > Baccarat What if.... Welcome, garnabby.

07-24-2009, 12:37 PM #9 (permalink) giselle knowles

Re: What if....

Marc your right on this is one of the best ways to win.

giselle knowlesView Public ProfileSend a private message to giselle knowlesFind More Posts by giselle knowlesAdd giselle knowles to Your Contacts

07-23-2009, 08:26 PM #8 (permalink) Marc

Re: What if....

This is one of three strategies I employ. I approach it slightly different.

First I have a large BR, this is critical. Some of the swings can be large.

Second - I do not bet against the table, I bet against known losers in my area. I have a notebook I keep with notes on players. Once a player becomes known to be a perpetual loser I bet against him. Sure he goes on runs, but the largest majority of the time he will lose every dollar he brings with him, and what he can borrow from friends/family.

Third - I use a fraction of his bet. I convert his chip colors and amounts to mine. Most of the players I choose are black chip players. They normaly bet 2-8 black chips or the equivalent in purple. I use green chips. If they bet 300, I bet 75. They bet 800, I bet 200...etc

Fourth - I am not greedy. I do not try to last until they go bust. I just try to make a score, and then retire for the day. I see them get back to even all the time, so I do not play against them after getting ahead. Occassionaly they go on a run. However, I have never seen anyone betting at this level win more than ten thousand, but I have seen them lose $10,000. This would only have me out $2500. They do quit winner to go eat, or see a show, etc...I then just pick another player, table, casino, etc....

The commission obviuosly ads up after a long run, if it goes back and forth, but it has not yet eliminated a win.

The big disadvantage is not being able to take the opposite of a tie. If I could do that I would be a zillionaire. LOL.

You will never convince me that the small edge at bacc is what wins the money. I am not sayng that it does not win the money, it does, but that does not account for the speed in which the money is lost. The casinos biggest advanage is it has more time and money than the player. I have always believed that a casino could win all the money with no edge. I believe that the casino could win all the money at roulette without the green 0 and 00. They simply have the staying power/money to outlast the players, and they are not making decisions, the player is.

Just my .02, YMMV

Last edited by Marc; 07-23-2009 at 08:31 PM.

07-20-2009, 05:29 AM #7 (permalink) E. Clifton Davis

Re: What if....

The last thing the casino wants is truly random cards. If the cards were truly random Basic Strategy would beat BJ to the tune of 6%. That is pure basic math. The casinos would go broke very quickly.

In Baccarat, if the cards were truly random, the game would be equally easy to beat by simply betting against the trend. You could bet that Bank and Player will avg out even; that opposites and repeats would avg out even; that OTB4L and TB4L would avg. out even. There are many systems to that effect but of them work. Why?

Because during the short glimpse of time a single shoe affords, these trends do not avg out. Single shoes defy the odds. It takes hundreds of shoes for all these trends to avg. out.

Therefore if you bet with the strongest trend of the shoe you will win more bets than you lose. That is the object of successful Baccarat in a nut shell. Therefore, the logical task is to find the strongest trend in the casino and bet WITH it. That has worked for me for a quarter century.

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07-20-2009, 04:59 AM #6 (permalink) E. Clifton Davis

Re: What if....

And whatever trend caused by the shuffle is locked in there too Lefty.

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07-20-2009, 12:27 AM #5 (permalink) lefty359

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Re: What if....

My take is, those cards are locked in the shoe and do not know what side has the most money bet on it. Your method doesn't sound logical to me.

07-12-2009, 01:08 PM #4 (permalink) giselle knowles
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Re: What if....

thanks for your reply Clifton, I dont bet every hand and i make a chart of the table average win and loss over time, when people get frustrated by a few losses they get emotional and this is when there at there most vulnerable so when this happens and my chart indicates ill make a bet or two..

there are a few tell tale signs as to how a table is going by the amount of float chips, most of the time the float is full and the mood of the table,winning tables are noisy and loosing tables are quiet all this info helps me make the right bets at the right time.

Ive noticed there are certain patterns to peoples betting and i think there could be a system developed based on it but thats a topic for another day !!

07-12-2009, 06:59 AM #3 (permalink) aegis21

Re: What if....

Quote:

Originally Posted by E. Clifton Davis

Yes, It's not new. And yes, your logic is sound. It puts the avg. 26% casino table take on your side. The big pitfall is when the whole table, or most of it, gets on a run. You can go broke quickly. Therefore, you need a what if rule to your what if system that says something like: Bet against the table EXCEPT when the table is following a run. Now you've got something worth pursuing!

The exception rule bet against the table except when the table is following a run after a six in a row, er maybe a 5 in a row,er maybe a 4 in a row or maybe a 3 in a row, oh and maybe a 3 zig zag, or after a four zig zag or five zig zag.

How about when the table jumps on the terrible twos? Should we bet with them after the first two, second two, third two? When to stop? If you continue you will always lose the last bet. And since you started late (you are betting against the table until you hit your exception rule) you have lost at least two more bets than the table did on any of those what if's.

It still comes down to making the correct decisions, whether you are following the anti table method, or any other method.

There are on average 18 singles in an eight deck shoe, do you bet all singles will stay single or do you bet they will go to two? How do you make that decision? If you can make that decision correct more often than not, you should be able to make the next decision, how many of the 9 twos will stay two and how many will go to three. This is an extremely easy game if you make the correct decision! LOL

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07-12-2009, 05:20 AM #2 (permalink) E. Clifton Davis
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Re: What if....

Yes, It's not new. And yes, your logic is sound. It puts the avg. 26% casino table take on your side. The big pitfall is when the whole table, or most of it, gets on a run. You can go broke quickly. Therefore, you need a what if rule to your what if system that says something like: Bet against the table EXCEPT when the table is following a run. Now you've got something worth pursuing!
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07-12-2009, 02:37 AM #1 (permalink) giselle knowles
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What if..

Im trying a new approach to the game and thats betting opposite whatever has the most money on it either banker or player, the reason im doing this is because the casinos get rich by people loosing right, im interested to know if this way of betting has been done before...

Garnabby, it was a simple question. Watch my lips:

AGAIN:

Are you denying you came to watch us in Vegas and made that exact post afterwards? Are you saying that wasn't you? That you were identified incorrectly?

It doesn't require name calling:

1. He's a liar (And you don't even come from South Carolina)
2. He's a continuous liar
3. He's a coward

It doesn't require going off on 14 unrelated tangents like you are wont to do whenever faced with a direct question. Just answer the question. How hard is that? It could be that you were misidentified by three different people and it was just someone your approx age that talks like you and posts like you. But since you don't deny it, I can only assume its true at least until you DO deny it.

For a while there you had me believing that you, in fact, were not giselle knowles, alias baccarat kid, alias GK - that you were a completely separate entity with an equal penchant for hiding behind aliases. But, since you are now again taking up for that same bet against the loser mentality, you are reassuring me that you are in fact one and the same. You certainly are convincing. Otherwise I have to believe there are two people that stupid. And I don't think you are stupid in spite of all your name calling and question dodging and tangents.

Look, you say there are no winners in Baccarat. I have agreed with you 99.9%. Don't you see that if there are no winners, there are no losers? That it is merely two sides of the same coin? If its impossible to consistently win its equally impossible to consistently lose? That you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you believe the game is random or you don't. If its random as you say, how can there be consistent losers?

Except for chasers. They don't lose per se. They run out of money. They bet over their head. But you can't flat bet against them as giselle claims he does and expect to win. You MUST bet in the same proportion. Don't you see that? And what if he wins his big bet? You lose yours. That's what keeps happening to giselle as you likely know. If it worked, wouldn't at least one person over the last 300 years have won with it by now?

And this thing about Don: Don't you realize that one person can win and another lose w/o betting against each other. The loser was single side flat betting huge units per the bogus system he was playing. The winner was net betting two U1D2M2 progs. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Stick up for the scammer. But take the win knows.

Look, you can call me all the names you want. You are only ruining your own image not mine. You can deny my education, my IQ, my backgrond all you want. It's not MY image you are hurting. I prove myself at the tables. You would be far better off to do the same instead of all this infantile name calling.

Now, can you answer the question or not. So far it looks like NOT. If not, I rest my case.

Originally Posted by takethe win

ellis, i think you ought to write an autobiography detailing all your experiences, it'd be a great read, you have a prolific writing style that's easy to read and is very interesting, us ol' gamblers would really enjoy it, plus it's just a good way to preserve your legacy.

I plan to do exactly that in a novel called The Player. It will be mostly about taking down Atlantic City on the BJ tables. I already have publishers. Its a question of finding the time. Many, many have made the same suggestion. It certainly beats beating my head against a wall as I'm doing here.

Oh that reminds me. I tried to register on this forum under my rightful name, E. Clifton Davis, but was refused saying that user name was already taken. I'm obviously not a computer person. They came after my time. Can anyone explain that to me? Mike? Anybody?