Banned again, part 1...

[now here]

GARNABBY,

I'VE been waiting for you to call me EZ, I miss you at GG, although I see you posted today. No offense for "getting out of the way", it's just the way you write, I have to read it a few times, to understand. Either, you have a superb, I.Q. and I'm not there yet, or you can't express your thoughts properly.
How have you been.


AND DON'T FORGET,

ALL SYSTEMS WORK SOME OF THE TIME,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

no system works all of the time............

HAVE A GREAT DAY.

r/s

P.S. Aug was good, this week was rough, short week, I don't play on Holidays.

[Ellis]

Now, my side of the story:

At beatthecasino.com we put one of the private members in charge of house cleaning. That's a double edge sword particularly in the public forum.

The private forum grows in leaps and bounds. For instance I am currently 1800 unread Emails behind which are mostly post notices. Our forum is already too lengthy. If we didn't house clean, the private forum would be ten times longer than it is and particularly new guys would be lost for a week. But we never delete anything entirely, we just put it in storage.

For instance when Baccarat kid/ Giselle Knowles/ Gk / a few I can't remember, wanted a peek into the private forum I allowed it knowing full well that everything was in such disarray at the time that he wouldn't be able to find anything of importance given only 24 hours. Still, he ruined it for anyone else to ever be given that priviledge again. You might have noticed that he didn't report much about it. That was because he got a view so collidescopic he couldn't report anything. But that, in itself, is embarrasing to the point that we have since conducted a thorough restructuring and reorganizing of the private forum. We've also added a sort of road map for the new guys that recommends a structured study path to get them through the basics and up to current relevancy quickly.

On the public forum we seldom delete anything. But you get those guys trying to sell sex toys or whatever that have no relevancy to Bac or BJ.

We have also banned three people out of thousands of posters who seem to have their own agenda. It seems like more because two of the 3 were banned under several different aliases. We ban them when the complaints by paid members (and public members as well) reach a certain unignorable crescendo. Private members complain because their classes get interrupted. Public members complain because they can't get their questions in. But like I say its a double edged sword. But so far, the only complaints about banning have come from only those who got banned.

It isn't about whether people agree with me or disagree because public posters have no idea of what I teach. So they can neither agree nor disagree.

The bottom line is that I have a winning record in both BJ and Bac that spans 25 years that started long before the internet was even an idea. I have proved this hundreds of times in open public in casino exhibitions putting my money where my mouth is. The only complaint I ever got was: "Mr. Davis we wish you would play red like we have to. We can't afford to play black" whereupon my response was always the same: "I can't afford to play red!"

See, every play exhibition followed a public seminar. They cost anywhere from $20,000 in Kansas City type towns to $40,000 in Boston type towns. Even more in Canada where I had to have a multi lingual set up. Then there was the extra flight cost to places like The Bahamas, Cabo, The Canary Islands. By the time I pay up to $15000 for a newspaper ad, fly in staff and equipment, we are talking big bucks. The $20 per couple entry fee was only a drop in the bucket.

$10,000 in a half hour at Taj 1 W/O betting over $200 (Advantage betting only, no progs.) No card counter in the world could match that. Then, because Jerry and Nancy Patterson missed Taj 1: $10,000 at Taj 2, 2 weeks later at the very same table in a half hour W/O betting over $200 with Jerry and Nancy along with their whole staff watching every play right over my shoulder. Nobody else has ever had the confidence in their wares to conduct public exhibitions either before or after me. When Olson tried it he lost. When Patterson tried it he lost. And, I've given Baccarat equal time.

Then, after spending 25 years of my life writing TRUE books and Newsletters, spending millions on seminars and performing hundreds of public exhibitions W/O losing, fully documented in my Newsletters and by current members, perhaps even some of yours, some Johnny come lately comes along and denies the whole thing ever happened. Geez, its like those idiots that deny the Holocaust. It's public record witnessed by literally thousands of people, many like myself, still around. Twice I was barred right in the middle of the exhibition and countless other times.

But I'm just an old man now with fond memories. My site is just an old man's hobby devoted to those who would like to take advantage of my experience. Those who don't, that's fine with me. But its there for those who do, not for hecklers. I don't have the time to waste. I enjoy playing with my students now and then like again this month. (for green) They never lose when they play with me. It brings a certain alertness out in them.

You can deny all this ever happened. Don't bother me none. You're just making a fool of yourself, not me. I think the Psychiatrists call it Denial. But I'd rather finish out my days in peace if you don't mind.

[garnabby]

Now, my side of the story:

At beatthecasino.com we put one of the private members in charge of house cleaning. That's a double edge sword particularly in the public forum.

The private forum grows in leaps and bounds. For instance I am currently 1800 unread Emails behind which are mostly post notices. Our forum is already too lengthy. If we didn't house clean, the private forum would be ten times longer than it is and particularly new guys would be lost for a week. But we never delete anything entirely, we just put it in storage.

For instance when Baccarat kid/ Giselle Knowles/ Gk / a few I can't remember, wanted a peek into the private forum I allowed it knowing full well that everything was in such disarray at the time that he wouldn't be able to find anything of importance given only 24 hours. Still, he ruined it for anyone else to ever be given that priviledge again. You might have noticed that he didn't report much about it. That was because he got a view so collidescopic he couldn't report anything. But that, in itself, is embarrasing to the point that we have since conducted a thorough restructuring and reorganizing of the private forum. We've also added a sort of road map for the new guys that recommends a structured study path to get them through the basics and up to current relevancy quickly.

On the public forum we seldom delete anything. But you get those guys trying to sell sex toys or whatever that have no relevancy to Bac or BJ.

We have also banned three people out of thousands of posters who seem to have their own agenda. It seems like more because two of the 3 were banned under several different aliases. We ban them when the complaints by paid members (and public members as well) reach a certain unignorable crescendo. Private members complain because their classes get interrupted. Public members complain because they can't get their questions in. But like I say its a double edged sword. But so far, the only complaints about banning have come from only those who got banned.

It isn't about whether people agree with me or disagree because public posters have no idea of what I teach. So they can neither agree nor disagree.

The bottom line is that I have a winning record in both BJ and Bac that spans 25 years that started long before the internet was even an idea. I have proved this hundreds of times in open public in casino exhibitions putting my money where my mouth is. The only complaint I ever got was: "Mr. Davis we wish you would play red like we have to. We can't afford to play black" whereupon my response was always the same: "I can't afford to play red!"

See, every play exhibition followed a public seminar. They cost anywhere from $20,000 in Kansas City type towns to $40,000 in Boston type towns. Even more in Canada where I had to have a multi lingual set up. Then there was the extra flight cost to places like The Bahamas, Cabo, The Canary Islands. By the time I pay up to $15000 for a newspaper ad, fly in staff and equipment, we are talking big bucks. The $20 per couple entry fee was only a drop in the bucket.

$10,000 in a half hour at Taj 1 W/O betting over $200 (Advantage betting only, no progs.) No card counter in the world could match that. Then, because Jerry and Nancy Patterson missed Taj 1: $10,000 at Taj 2, 2 weeks later at the very same table in a half hour W/O betting over $200 with Jerry and Nancy along with their whole staff watching every play right over my shoulder. Nobody else has ever had the confidence in their wares to conduct public exhibitions either before or after me. When Olson tried it he lost. When Patterson tried it he lost. And, I've given Baccarat equal time.

Then, after spending 25 years of my life writing TRUE books and Newsletters, spending millions on seminars and performing hundreds of public exhibitions W/O losing, fully documented in my Newsletters and by current members, perhaps even some of yours, some Johnny come lately comes along and denies the whole thing ever happened. Geez, its like those idiots that deny the Holocaust. It's public record witnessed by literally thousands of people, many like myself, still around. Twice I was barred right in the middle of the exhibition and countless other times.

But I'm just an old man now with fond memories. My site is just an old man's hobby devoted to those who would like to take advantage of my experience. Those who don't, that's fine with me. But its there for those who do, not for hecklers. I don't have the time to waste. I enjoy playing with my students now and then like again this month. (for green) They never lose when they play with me. It brings a certain alertness out in them.

You can deny all this ever happened. Don't bother me none. You're just making a fool of yourself, not me. I think the Psychiatrists call it Denial. But I'd rather finish out my days in peace if you don't mind.

Sure Ellis, you're allowed the last words on this topic. Impressive, even if only half true.

Thanks!

[joshky]

Ellis, it sure is nice to see you post here.

From my point of view, i wish i could belive all that you say to be true. Many out there (including the scammers) can claim and have claimed that they have a winning strategy that has never lost.

Now, i am not trying to bash you out here. What i am trying to say is that it is just hard to belive for the likes of me out here the things you preach about to be true.

We don't hear of any of your private members in this public forum or any other except yours that has done well or speculate about a certain system that can beat baccarat easily.

To conclude, for the likes of me out here, what we see out here are just claims the kind that we see all the time.

My 2cents.

[baccaratkid]

Joshky
Most private members of Ellis' forum do not post here or even in Ellis' public forum because they spend most of their time in the private forum.
I am one of those private members and I have been winning on a consistant basis using the evolving systems on that forum. I read the material on this forum as well because I have an open mind and am always looking for improvements. I am not "loyal to Ellis" blindly because I paid my money to join, but because he made me a winner. I believe most of the folks on the private forum would echo my sentiments. I have seen the "Ellis bashing" on this forum and I cannot understand why. Most of the bashers don't know what they are bashing. All I can say is this: I discovered Beat the Casino, I won money with the free system, I joined the private forum, and I have been winning and contributing to the systems as they grow and improve. It has been a remarkable experience for an old hand like myself who has spent years buying and devising systems that don't work. Does the current "hot" system, SKOR 2hi, win every shoe? No, of course not. What it does is win much more than it loses and does so using a betting pattern that never risks more than 2 units and keeps the commission low. If and when I am ready I will merely raise my unit size to make more. I am not looking to clean out the casinos, just to get my fair share. If anyone share this way of thinking I would urge you to join me in Beat the Casino private forum.

[garnabby]

Joshky
Most private members of Ellis' forum do not post here or even in Ellis' public forum because they spend most of their time in the private forum.
I am one of those private members and I have been winning on a consistant basis using the evolving systems on that forum. I read the material on this forum as well because I have an open mind and am always looking for improvements. I am not "loyal to Ellis" blindly because I paid my money to join, but because he made me a winner. I believe most of the folks on the private forum would echo my sentiments. I have seen the "Ellis bashing" on this forum and I cannot understand why. Most of the bashers don't know what they are bashing. All I can say is this: I discovered Beat the Casino, I won money with the free system, I joined the private forum, and I have been winning and contributing to the systems as they grow and improve. It has been a remarkable experience for an old hand like myself who has spent years buying and devising systems that don't work. Does the current "hot" system, SKOR 2hi, win every shoe? No, of course not. What it does is win much more than it loses and does so using a betting pattern that never risks more than 2 units and keeps the commission low. If and when I am ready I will merely raise my unit size to make more. I am not looking to clean out the casinos, just to get my fair share. If anyone share this way of thinking I would urge you to join me in Beat the Casino private forum.

baccaratkid,

Well, now we have a baccaratkid... not to be confused with thebaccaratkid, i suppose.

Not to keep overworking things PROVED about Ellis' baccarat-(mis-)concepts in other threads, i prefer to do things right once, and move on, but you sound just like him... all talk but no action.

[baccaratkid]

baccaratkid,

Well, now we have a baccaratkid... not to be confused with thebaccaratkid, i suppose.

Not to keep overworking things PROVED about Ellis' baccarat-(mis-)concepts in other threads, i prefer to do things right once, and move on, but you sound just like him... all talk but no action.

I can't even guess what this means. My "action" takes place in the casino.
And I have been a member here since April, while "thebaccaratkid" just joined.

[garnabby]

I can't even guess what this means. My "action" takes place in the casino.

baccaratkid,

Yes, i think the casinos would want it that way. (Read and learn, if only because Ellis "thinks and talks" down to you. Nothing worth achieving is that simple or easy.)

[Ellis]

GARNABBY is saying I talk down to people.

Right in a post where he's talking down to some innocent victim.

Now that is hilarious!

So much for the last word.

[Ellis]

Ellis, it sure is nice to see you post here.

From my point of view, i wish i could belive all that you say to be true. Many out there (including the scammers) can claim and have claimed that they have a winning strategy that has never lost.

Now, i am not trying to bash you out here. What i am trying to say is that it is just hard to belive for the likes of me out here the things you preach about to be true.

We don't hear of any of your private members in this public forum or any other except yours that has done well or speculate about a certain system that can beat baccarat easily.

To conclude, for the likes of me out here, what we see out here are just claims the kind that we see all the time.

My 2cents.

Josh, I agree with you 100%. I haven't seen anything on the internet worth a darn and have often said so. And a lot of it is out and out dangerous. No one in their right mind would make the bets some of these sites call for. Most of it is stuff we rejected 25 years ago.

I wish all my players would play as I do and play the trends. That would make life much easier for me. But except for a handful that is not what they want. Too hard to learn. They want very low betting universal systems. Those are the toughest to design because you have to come up with a mathematical advantage. And that is hard to do in a 50/50 game. I only know of two systems that do that.

SAP does that. You only bet an avg of 40 - 45 units a shoe so it bets less than most flat bettors and never makes a bet higher than 2. It functions on a mathematical principle I see you guys dancing around right here in your discussions about what you call Standard Deviation. The fact is that you will likely NEVER see a shoe where all events occur at their nomal mathematical frequency. Well, making a long story short, that is what SAP bets on, that there will be what we call a least common event. One advantage is that it has a high win rate. But the other is that the avg. loss is very low because it never bets against the most common event as other systems are wont to do. But I warn you that it is complex by comparison to most systems. But it has been winning for three years as all our members can attest.

The other is SKOR 2Hi. I recognized that some of the members will never be able to play SAP fluently. We needed something simpler. SKOR 2Hi is far simpler than SAP. Anybody can learn it. It uses a totally different principle. It beats chop handily W/O the normal penalty of streak by betting less often in streak and more often in chop. It also never bets more than 2.

I don't mind telling you that we had several failures on the way to SKOR. One good thing about having a lot of players is that you can find out things very quickly. SKOR simply didn't produce the losers we were accustomed to. TOO many winners and not enough losers right off the bat. It may end up outperforming SAP. At least it is already obvious it will come close.

That's it! Unless you are insanely devoted enough to learn my professional way to play Bac or BJ, and few are, those are the only routes I know. And you still won't win all the time. But you'll win a lot more than you lose. To my way of thinking, that is the object. That is as honest an appraisal as I can give you.

[baccaratkid]

baccaratkid,

Yes, i think the casinos would want it that way. (Read and learn, if only because Ellis "thinks and talks" down to you. Nothing worth achieving is that simple or easy.)

Nobody said it was easy. It certainly is not easy or simple, but it works when you as a player take the time to learn. Ellis does not talk down to me. He talks to me and with me and plays along side me. He has made me a far better player than I was a year ago. Oh, and when he talks I can understand him. That's more than I can say for your grammatically challenged utterings.

[thebaccaratkid]

For instance when Baccarat kid/ Giselle Knowles/ Gk / a few I can't remember, wanted a peek into the private forum I allowed it knowing full well that everything was in such disarray at the time that he wouldn't be able to find anything of importance given only 24 hours. Still, he ruined it for anyone else to ever be given that priviledge again. You might have noticed that he didn't report much about it. That was because he got a view so collidescopic he couldn't report anything. But that, in itself, is embarrasing to the point that we have since conducted a thorough restructuring and reorganizing of the private forum. We've also added a sort of road map for the new guys that recommends a structured study path to get them through the basics and up to current relevancy quickly.

This is why your so full of shit Ellis, you make things up to suit yourself and heres a perfect example from your above statement.
You comped me full membership under thebaccaratkid for weeks until you baned me, the private forum was nothing new to me since everything you have in there ive seen before, yes your not the only one trying to win and anyone worth anything will know a 6 yr old can come up with your systems given a paper and a crayon.
I used webripper software to copy the entire private forum,so now i have all your systems you had on there up until xmas 2008, although there not worth anything me and the boys at the local casino have a good chuckle at your primitive attempts...

What made me laugh the most was the fact you didn't know martingale wasn't a man,your the joke of the casino scene everywhere you go, the pit bosses love you because your the perfect system better and the more you teach the more the love you, one day ill be sitting on the same table as you any you will know because ill be betting against you when your loosing !!

Now disappear fool back to your controlled forum where what ellis says goes.

[thebaccaratkid]

Nobody said it was easy. It certainly is not easy or simple, but it works when you as a player take the time to learn. Ellis does not talk down to me. He talks to me and with me and plays along side me. He has made me a far better player than I was a year ago. Oh, and when he talks I can understand him. That's more than I can say for your grammatically challenged utterings.

You know what baccaratkid ill show you a way to win after all i made 15 grand in 5 months flat betting and its easy, but then again maybe you like to hear the storys ellis tells about casino orcastration etc

[garnabby]

So much for the last word.

I gave you the last words "on this topic" (about bannings at BTC)... nor did i later (now) edit those very words.

Yet an other example of trying to "put words in my mouth"?

[Ellis]

You know what baccaratkid ill show you a way to win after all i made 15 grand in 5 months flat betting and its easy, but then again maybe you like to hear the storys ellis tells about casino orcastration etc

And who can vouch for this? You just told us under your giselle knowles alias that you lost. Which time are we supposed to believe you?

[Ellis]

Well I guess that answers that.

Yeah, I let him on our forum. My mistake! He said the same thing he said above, that he had this fool proof system he could teach us. We said OK, in exchage we'll give you temporary membership. But once he got on, he had no system. Could not even answer the most basic questions from our members. Not only that, he became juvenilly rude when faced with basic questions. That doesn't go on our forum! Its for adults at least old enough to play casinos. So we checked his IP and found he was the very same guy we had already banned under several different aliases and we banned him yet again. But he came right back under yet a different alias "to do as much damage on our forum as he possibly could" is what he said on this forum. Well why? Who knows? Deranged? Obviously. And what's to stop him from doing the same here or trying to if someone questions him or looks at him crosseyed? Now I'm not talking about trick questions or rude questions. I'm talking about legitimate questions anyone would have of someone making such claims. He flys off the handle just as he did above.

I've already explained above why betting againt a perceived loser doesn't work. This guy didn't invent the loser approach. Players have been trying it for 300 years and are still trying it today by the hundreds. NOBODY has ever got it to work. I've sat to tables where everyone at the table was playing that way. Everyone is trying to bet last and the table stagnates. All you can do is find another, saner, table. It doesn't take a math professor to explain why it doesn't work. Anyone with basic grade school math should.....All you've got to do is think a little.

I don't own our forum. I don't have the authority or ability to ban anyone. That is done by the consensus of opinion of the private paying members through the owner Keith Smith. We almost never ban anyone. I'd call 3 out of thousands almost never. You have to really earn that distinction at our forum. This character earned that distinction and then some. He was childishly insulting anyone he perceived as a threat just as he does on this forum. And without a shread of evidence or even reason.

As you know by now, this business is about credibility. It thrives on credibility. Once you resort to name calling, you shread your credibility. Think about that whenever you are posting with a perceived ax to grind. Always support your claims with evidence, not name calling. That's for children who don't know any better.

On our forum he admits to being a loser with a gambling problem reduced to stealing to cover his losses. True? Who knows since he lies about everything. Who knows if he ever tells the truth. But is that who you want advising you?

Keith Smith, our owner, called me at 6 AM this morning. He had just read this characters post about stealing copy from our forum. He asked me to remind him that he already admitted to breaking the law as well as admitting to be a felon running from the law. That the US has federal copyright laws. That we have already sued one group in US Federal Court successfully. They also thought we couldn't find them. But the feds did. We were not only awarded all their money, we even got their office equipment and computers. Josh about it if you want. That's exactly what they did. They don't josh about it anymore!

[thebaccaratkid]

Well I guess that answers that.

Yeah, I let him on our forum. My mistake! He said the same thing he said above, that he had this fool proof system he could teach us. We said OK, in exchange we'll give you temporary membership. But once he got on, he had no system. Could not even answer the most basic questions from our members.

"You know what baccaratkid ill show you a way to win after all i made 15 grand in 5 months flat betting and its easy"
no where in that statement did i say my system was fool proof, another example how your brain failed to notice the word "easy" and it replaced it with "fool proof"

Hmm you have a way with words Ellis unfortunately i never said i had a fool proof system, i said i made 15 grand in 72 days betting opposite people,ive had many successful years doing just that,its the only way i have and ever will play on a baccarat table no system is ever fool proof,and as for any questions from members there where none, you just dismissed my style of play as chance.I think your words in an email to keith about why you allowed me to join should be published where you said something like "hes got the betting against people down to a fine art" or something to that effect but i don't think that email is going to appear anytime soon !!

the reason i was on your forum in the first place was to see what you charged 500 dollars for, as i suspected you really had noting ive not seen before.
Once you devalued my opinion on a number of subjects that i was correct on i decided you have no real thought for my ideas and all your interested in
is money you earn from your systems. So i joined under a few alisses and posted a fabricated story to hear out your other members, i got some interesting comments
but all of that was deleted unfortunately.

now that brings me to the question as to why your really here with your mate pokerchic...since you sell your information about your systems i cant see you posting any of them on here for free unlike other members, and the reason i got baned was because as you stated the other members of your forum where complaining to you that your spending too much time arguing on the public forum and they where missing out on your teaching so why are you waisting your time here ?

unlike you i wont be spouting rubbish like casino orcastration or the elements of shuffling nor will i be asking why did the table take go up from 3% to 26%, the answer btw i gave you but again it wasnt to your liking so you dismissed it well no ill be showing those on this forum who are intrested how i made 15 grand flat betting in 72 days at the baccarat table.

My last peice of advice to you Ellis is go back to your own forum and teach your paid members

[Ellis]

See how easy that was. You wrote 6 whole paragraphs W/O calling anyone a name.

Next we need to teach you to stop attacking people for no reason, esp. whom you know nothing about whatsoever.

As far as staying here or not, you could always organize a vote. But, as I told Mike, I wasn't planning to stay anyway.

I truly hope your game improves for you. For a while there I thought you had some new innovative way of doing an old trick. Work on it! Someday maybe you will.

[thebaccaratkid]

See how easy that was. You wrote 6 whole paragraphs W/O calling anyone a name.

Next we need to teach you to stop attacking people for no reason, esp. whom you know nothing about whatsoever.

As far as staying here or not, you could always organize a vote. But, as I told Mike, I wasn't planning to stay anyway.

I truly hope your game improves for you. For a while there I thought you had some new innovative way of doing an old trick. Work on it! Someday maybe you will.

No need to improve what works , im not like you im happy with my system

[garnabby]

Keith Smith, our owner, called me at 6 AM this morning. He had just read this characters post about stealing copy from our forum. He asked me to remind him that he already admitted to breaking the law as well as admitting to be a felon running from the law. That the US has federal copyright laws. That we have already sued one group in US Federal Court successfully. They also thought we couldn't find them. But the feds did. We were not only awarded all their money, we even got their office equipment and computers. Josh about it if you want. That's exactly what they did. They don't josh about it anymore!

There's a good (simplified) read about copyrighting at 10 Big Myths about copyright explained .

[thebaccaratkid]

Oh dam Ellis i just had an idea..Maybe you could have Bill Gates make a copyright button to go with the copy and paste on right click !!!