Anyone Interested in Testing a NEW Method?

[Bambura]

Hi Grab The Hold,

I am new to this forum, and would be interested to test your method.

I was trying Martingale method, which is not working, actually loosing everything, the D Alembert did not work aout as well..

so would be interested in yours.....

[sparkart]

Bambura, let me give you some advice that I know.

There's a saying: "If you can't beat the game with flat-betting, then don't bet at all"

I've learned a system from a source that I will not mention. They had a bankroll of 1,000 and divided between 3 people and each person executes it simultaneously (usually different tables, just to speed up the process and remove the "long-run" factor).

Always bet on banker because of the bias of banker winning more frequently.

First, you bet 1 unit; if you win, bet 1 unit again.
If you win twice in a row, you raise by 0.5 unit. Whenever you lose, you start back at 1 unit.

For example: Bet $50.00 and win, so you bet $50.00. You win again, so you bet $75.00. You win again, so you bet $75.00. You win again, so you bet $100.00. You just up the bet by 50% of the initial unit every two wins in a row.

If you lose once, you go back to the starting unit.

Now, if you lose twice in a row.... you lower your bet by 0.5. If you win then you go back up to the initial wagering unit and follow the process.

If you win twice more (4 losses in a row), you stop betting and watch the shoe or you leave the table go to a different one. I would watch the shoe without betting because you might jump into a table with a player streak.

Now, I've noticed several flaws to this system (one big problem being an insufficient bankroll).


Another favorite of mine is the 1-3-2-4 system. I favor this over the 1-3-2-6. The weakness to the 1-3-2-4 system is choppy hands: BPBPBPBP

1-3-2-4 works by first betting one unit (whatever it may be).
If you win, you bet 3 units (you risk 2 units+ the unit you just one).
If you win, you bet 2 units (you risk 2 units you won, and if you lose make a 1 unit profit).
If you win, you bet 4 units (if you lose, you'll profit 2 units).

This has two weakness, losing at the second wager and losing at the first.
Usually, I sit out without betting until I see a banker win when I see a 3 player streak.

A huge thing to do is not ignore patterns. It is better to not bet at all then to bet against a streak. That's why I add the "quit at a 3 losses" because you can either be digging yourself into a losing streak, or it is probably fluke.

Keep in mind, I don't think you can walk away a winner everytime.

One thing that sucks is the fact that people say you should cut your session at a 20% profit.

This works!!!! But then, when you are on a losing day those accumulated 20% profit gets wiped out!!!!

That is why I find it wise not to spend your winnings before the end of the month, your bankroll may suffer and you may need those winnings.

[littogage]

I am wondering what the small fee cost is?

[Grab The Gold]

There is NO fee, you send me your results and I'll run them through my method and send you back the results, it's just that easy.

Grab the Gold

[Chord strummer]

hi GTG,

I sent you a message yesterday and hope you received it.
I'd be interested in testing your method. Please let me know your email address and I'll be happy to send you the results of the shoes played.

Thanks.

[Katweezel]

Originally Posted by sparkart

Bambura, let me give you some advice that I know.

There's a saying: "If you can't beat the game with flat-betting, then don't bet at all"

I've learned a system from a source that I will not mention. They had a bankroll of 1,000 and divided between 3 people and each person executes it simultaneously (usually different tables, just to speed up the process and remove the "long-run" factor).

Always bet on banker because of the bias of banker winning more frequently.

First, you bet 1 unit; if you win, bet 1 unit again.
If you win twice in a row, you raise by 0.5 unit. Whenever you lose, you start back at 1 unit.

For example: Bet $50.00 and win, so you bet $50.00. You win again, so you bet $75.00. You win again, so you bet $75.00. You win again, so you bet $100.00. You just up the bet by 50% of the initial unit every two wins in a row.

If you lose once, you go back to the starting unit.

Now, if you lose twice in a row.... you lower your bet by 0.5. If you win then you go back up to the initial wagering unit and follow the process.

If you win twice more (4 losses in a row), you stop betting and watch the shoe or you leave the table go to a different one. I would watch the shoe without betting because you might jump into a table with a player streak.

Now, I've noticed several flaws to this system (one big problem being an insufficient bankroll).


Another favorite of mine is the 1-3-2-4 system. I favor this over the 1-3-2-6. The weakness to the 1-3-2-4 system is choppy hands: BPBPBPBP

1-3-2-4 works by first betting one unit (whatever it may be).
If you win, you bet 3 units (you risk 2 units+ the unit you just one).
If you win, you bet 2 units (you risk 2 units you won, and if you lose make a 1 unit profit).
If you win, you bet 4 units (if you lose, you'll profit 2 units).

This has two weakness, losing at the second wager and losing at the first.
Usually, I sit out without betting until I see a banker win when I see a 3 player streak.

A huge thing to do is not ignore patterns. It is better to not bet at all then to bet against a streak. That's why I add the "quit at a 3 losses" because you can either be digging yourself into a losing streak, or it is probably fluke.

Keep in mind, I don't think you can walk away a winner everytime.

One thing that sucks is the fact that people say you should cut your session at a 20% profit.

This works!!!! But then, when you are on a losing day those accumulated 20% profit gets wiped out!!!!

That is why I find it wise not to spend your winnings before the end of the month, your bankroll may suffer and you may need those winnings.

1 If you can't beat the game with flat-betting, then don't bet at all"
2 The weakness to the 1-3-2-4 system is choppy hands: BPBPBPBP
3 A huge thing to do is not ignore patterns."

Nice tries there, Spark. I've highlight 3 of your sentences. For #1, you might like to read under the thread: Baccarat Axiom. There a math expert has done the work for you to show that if you play 5000 hands, your chances of winning are a miserable 15%. How do you like flat-betting now?

For #2 and 3, you called the sequence BPBPBPBP choppy. But if you'd taken your own advice, you may have won big, at least for the final 4 or 5 times in that patterned sequence. Hope you have some more to post. Regards, K

[sparkart]

Katweezel, I don't think you completely understand what that phrase about flat betting means.

It is a saying stating that baccarat systems are useless because past outcomes have absolutely no effect on the next hand.

1-3-2-4 does have a weakness against choppy shoes.

Check this out:

BPBPBPBP

Following the 1-3-2-4 rules, you'll do the following decision:

B, P, B, P, B, P, B
1, 3, 1, 3, 1, 3, 1

Notice how everytime you win you only win 1 unit. Following 1-3-2-4, you increase to 3 units and lose on choppy shoes.


I don't see how your post was very informative. Just shows that you don't quite understand here, bud.

[Katweezel]

Originally Posted by sparkart

Katweezel, I don't think you completely understand what that phrase about flat betting means.

It is a saying stating that baccarat systems are useless because past outcomes have absolutely no effect on the next hand.

1-3-2-4 does have a weakness against choppy shoes.

Check this out:

BPBPBPBP

Following the 1-3-2-4 rules, you'll do the following decision:

B, P, B, P, B, P, B
1, 3, 1, 3, 1, 3, 1

Notice how everytime you win you only win 1 unit. Following 1-3-2-4, you increase to 3 units and lose on choppy shoes.


I don't see how your post was very informative. Just shows that you don't quite understand here, bud.

Granted, Spark, your post was far more informative than mine. My definition of flat betting is that you bet the same amount (usually the minimum bet) over and over. I did not realize it has a different meaning for baccarat.

Perhaps your post can be used as an example to illustrate that it might be a good idea for a baccarat player to have an appreciation of several systems, for the times your example presents itself. The events: BPBPBPB represents an opportunity (outside your 1-3-2-4 system) where you could have won some BIG bets on say, the last 3 hands of that sequence, simply by following the pattern. Those 3 or 4 winning bigger bets, could be enough to make you happy for the rest of the shoe... even for the rest of the week...

[sparkart]

Flat betting does not have a different meaning in Baccarat. You misunderstand my post as well:

Originally Posted by me

I don't think you completely understand what that phrase about flat betting means.

I said nothing about what flat betting means. I was talking about the meaning of the phrase about flat betting.


Overall, systems are useless. But they can still be used as a sort of money management. If you followed the pattern and bet big (because you noticed a choppy pattern). Then if you're pretty much making another rule (follow the trend). But in reality, there is no trend. If you win, that's great. But if you lose, that's a huge hurt!

I do follow my own advice, which is: Do not ignore patterns.

Take the 1-3-2-4 system on a choppy shoe as an example.

I know and keep to several things:
-Stick to my game plan
-Do not ignore patterns
-Betting systems do not necessarily make you invincible.
-Noting a trend doesn't necessarily make your next bet correct.
-No matter what!!!! Your odds remain: 50-50 (moreso or less)

So.... I'm following the 1-3-2-4 system and soon I see its choppy and I have two options.... follow the trend, or shift myself to a better position.

Option 1.... I can follow the trend by betting huge. The benefits is that I recoup my loss and maybe even profit big. The consequence is that I get a big hurt. You can see that option 1 has big risk for big reward.

But you need to always tell yourself... if I win, I'll be set. if I lose, I'll be at a big loss. I cannot afford this big loss so I go with option B, shift myself to a better position.

Option B.
I know that if the trend continues and I stay with 1-3-2-4 then I'll be hurting slowly. I could probably bet with the trend as option 1 suggests but without the big bet. Maybe keep the 1-3-2-4 but adjust my bet choice according to the trend. Pros is I slowly redeem my losses. Cons, I solved nothing. This is better than option 1 but not as much.

Option 3rd.
I fix the problem, with an acceptance of a smaller win. I do this by switching to the 1-2-3-4 system. If the trend continues.... I break even (not counting commission). The downside to option 3rd is that it will take longer to recoup any losses or make a profit than with using 1-3-2-4. The reason is because it will need to see 3 consecutive wins to see the same payout opposed to 2 consecutive wins. This is important to note because should the trend not continue, you may actually be hurting yourself.

Take the following: BBPBBP

With the 1-3-2-4 your payout looks as follows: +1, +3, -2, +1, +3, -2
With the 1-2-3-4 it looks like so: +1, +2, -3, +1, +2, -3

By looking at it by how much you're up/down it looks like so:
1-3-2-4: +1, +4, +2, +3, +6, +4
1-2-3-4: +1, +3, 0, +1, +3, 0

[Grab The Gold]

Some thoughts on "Designing Methods for Baccarat!"

Here are some thoughts I's like to share with the community based upon all the questions I have been getting from members who participated in providing me data ... many thanks to those who did!

First, let me say this, "There is NO Mechanical Method or System" that will defeat every Baccarat shoe, it doesn't exist, that's it, plain and simple. That having been said, what a person needs to do is design a "Playing" methodology that can reduce the "Average Loss" close as possible to (2) losses on average throughout the shoe. Sounds easy, well it isn't! To begin with you need to decide if you'd like to bet every hand or not; there are Pro's and Con's to betting/playing every hand or NOT betting/playing every hand. In the former, yes, you are "In-Action" every hand, and for those who like to play every hand this is what they like, but then you need to come to grips with the fact sometimes you will experience (4 - 5) losses in a row at some point in the shoe, therefore you either have to FLAT BET or design a betting strategy that moderately increases as you lose and design different levels of betting based on where a WIN is achieved. For example:

Lev-1
$10
$15
$20 (Win here, GO To Lev-2)
$20 (Win here, GO To Lev-2)
$40 (Win here, GO To Lev-2)

Lose all create a Level-3 that recovers the losses.

Lev-2

$20
$25
$25
$50
$80

And so on. Use progression betting ONLY when you are well-funded with a Bankroll; you will usually need (50 - 60) units of whatever the base unit you are using.

The TEST of course, for ANY strategy is that if you FLAT BET the entire shoe using your design that at the end you will be positive or at minimum, no more than (2 - 3) units negative at the end of the shoe. Now then, when your design puts you negative a couple of units at the end of the shoe, a moderate or conservative "Betting" strategy should always put you positive at the end when combined with your "Playing" strategy. You must also consider a STOP point in betting while keeping careful track of your playing strategy so that you will know when you should begin the betting process again based on re-entry signals you've established for that style of play.

Designing a "Playing" strategy that does NOT play every hand has a PLUS factor because you actually play a series of usually (2-3) bets/plays to achieve a WIN and then you are OUT for (1) play, then you go back in. This type of method I believe would be preferred for those whom are conservative bettors. It gives you time to see what is happening in the shoe and you to adjust your play if you believe certain "Patterns" or "Momentum" factors begin to emerge. Generally speaking, when using this method you will WIN each of these (2 - 3) hand segments around (80%) of the time, thus, using a moderate progression, OR, a MULTI-LEVEL FLAT betting method (meaning you will start using a LEVEL-1 Flat Betting Model and when you experience a certain amount of losses you ascend to a moderately higher level of betting until recovery of the loss series has been made, then revert back to LEVEL-1), you'll WIN most of the time. Units required to play this style of Baccarat usually requires a minimum of (30) units.

In my research for the last six years I have developed "ONE" Method that I have been using that bets every hand, that I, and some of my "High Roller" clients use, that is very effective, with the caveat that adjustments need to be made as the shoe unfolds. The "Method" allows for these adjustments based upon seeing what type of shoe you think you may be in based upon having seen the initial (15) hands of play. In either regard, the "Method" itself is pretty forgiving and will eventually resucitate your play even if you adjusted in the wrong direction. Additionally, I do believe, based upon the data I received from the members, that indeed, there are significant patterns which are generated by certain shuffling machines, I believe these patterns are "Hard-Coded" on to the "Randomizing" chips integrated into these machines. This has become evident to me based on my recent study from all of you whom have contributed the data. Thus, if you think the shoe will begin, or is starting to CHOP for example, then you make adjustments to the strategy to anticipate the CHOP, and so it goes if the shoe begins laying in back to back STREAKS, then adjust for that. All in all the Method is sound and gets you into situations that you want to be in, and out of situations you don't wish to be in; but again, being VIGILANT and seeing what the shoe is doing is so important. Remember that when you design a "Method" for playing, you need to design a "Method" of betting that works in concert with your "Playing" strategy, this is crucial.

Keep in mind, NO one method is a BAD Method, every method has good points and bad points based upon a person's threshold of nervous tension (anxiety levels), Bankroll, and time they have to dedicate to play a few shoes. You must also set WIN and LOSS goals and stick to them! This is KEY!

In summation, the game of "Baccarat" can be beaten on a regular basis, I do it all the time, my clients do it all the time; one must establish a "Method" they are comfortable using, one they have tested over many types of shoes ... once that is done set all your parameters of play i.e. STOP LOSS, WIN GOAL, Bankroll, etc., and most of all, OBSERVE what is happening in the shoe as you are playing it! The real KEY to "WINNING", in my humble opinion, is being able to carefully balance all the parameters, keep your emotions in check, and know when you WON enough and can stand up from the table!

Always remember this ... you have to be prepared to lose a few smaller bets in order to WIN the IMPORTANT ONES!

Hope the above answers most of the questions all of you have sent me.

Grab the Gold

[dennisbelle]

GTG,
Excellent post! I particularly like this sentence "The TEST of course, for ANY strategy is that if you FLAT BET the entire shoe using your design that at the end you will be positive or at minimum, no more than (2 - 3) units negative at the end of the shoe." Overall a right on approach. This test will eliminate most (if not all) systems I have played.
Dennis

[Grab The Gold]

Okay, I am getting Emails from folks wanting to know how to begin "Designing" a "Playing" method.

Allow me to first say this, when using ANY method you design you absolutely need to keep it as your cornerstone strategy; if you intend to deviate from it, you need to "WAIT" at least (3) hands after your last WIN BEFORE initiating the deviation, this way you have cleared-out any MENTAL tendencies to use pieces or parts of the original strategy, AND, now you had an opportunity to see (3) hands to ascertain where you might begin inserting your deviation into "Live-Action" play.

Now then, many of you have asked what "Things" do you need to be looking at to "Design" an effective "Playing" method. Well, without giving away all my tools and secrets I can say this; there are a multitude of variables one needs to give "Weight" to. Looking at overall "Dominance" of BANK vs. PLAYER, or vice versa is one variable. Taking into consideration the mathematical probability of consecutive hands repeating may be another. Seeing consistent "Patterns" emerging ... for example, you see (4) BANKS, (1) PLAYER, then another (6) BANK, then (1) PLAYER, (1) BANK, (8) PLAYER! See something like that you need to give "Weight" to "Following the Shoe". Reciprocally, if you see ... (2) BANK, (2) PLAYER, (1) BANK, (1) PLAYER, (2) BANK, then (3) PLAYER, you might give "Weight" to playing "OPPOSITE" the last result for at least (4) repititions because you haven't seen a streak any longer than (3) in the shoe up to that point, makes sense right?

Another means is configuring (2) different combinations of play either by the HAND TYPE or the MODE i.e. "Follow the Shoe and Opposite the shoe" and INSERT these combinations when you see a PATTERN of the last three hands unfold that your "Combination" is geared for. Just one example here; if you just saw ... BANK-BANK-PLAYER-BANK, and that was your combination trigger to go into "Action", then your next COMBO play might be ... BANK-PLAYER-PLAYER-PLAYER-BANK hoping to catch a WIN somewhere in that combination. The initial BANK was to hedge for the BANK repeating, the (3) PLAYER hands following was to hedge that mathematically the BANK will NOT repeat more than twice upon insertion of the combination, thus allowing the PLAYER hand to WIN, and finally the last BANK is there to hedge that possibly if all the (4) hands previous lost you'll catch a BANK in a streak of (3) previous BANKS which dominated over the previous three PLAYER hands if those plays lost. Something like that.

Making plays that are "Momentum" oriented can cast some fruitful results also. How many times have you seen something like this unfold ... B-B-P-B-B-B-P-B-B-B-B-P-P-B-B-B-P-B-B-P-B-B-B-B like that. Clearly, if you are at all being observant, you can see that the BANK hand has the momemtum in the run of the shoe, thus, you may start playing (2) BANK + (1) PLAYER in segments of (3) hand plays in hopes to keep catching a BANK hand somewhere in those combinations of BANKS and configure a "Betting" strategy for a three hand playing method like 10-20-20, lose all and go to 20-40-40, and stay with whichever segment of betting catches a WIN and stay with it until you have cleaned-up your loss streak.

Anyway, the above are hopefully some ideas some of our members can pursue in attemping to "Design" a playing strategy that you may be comfortable with.

Just doing my part to contribute some ideas to the members of this Forum.

Grab the Gold

[garnabby]

Grab the Gold,

I appreciate the effort you have put into your recent posts. A good starting place for us here for pattern nuances and "fiddlings". To be clear, i mean "starting" as not-yet-elaborated; not as simplistic.

Regarding an other at the GG who ran some tests showing that outcomes do not repeat in any(?) statisically-significant way, i copy and paste the conversation here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Topic: How you make money playing the TRENDS.

Topic: How you make money playing the TRENDjohnoPosted: 01-Jun-09 10:26 Edit Mail Profile By ignoring them.

Having had my head buried in my test data over the last few days, it dawned on me how easy it would be to determine the feasibility to this so called "follow the trend" malarkey.

I was going to repeat the exercise using a 2 column grouping, but decided if you can determine a TREND by looking at only the last decisions then you really must be wearing "see through radio shack glasses". So I settled on a 4 column grouping (has to be an even number for the purposes of this test). In other words how often did the pattern of the last 4 hands repeat for another 4 hands. Could be 2 by 2, chops, 3-1 pattern, streaks etc. What is does not take into account is dominance, i.e. one side dominating the other, which is shall we say rather subjective.

Again I state, I don't use Zumma, rather my own test data, 91 shoes just over 6000 decisions which I know are really shoes, besides testing against Zumma's 600 shoes would take too long for everything I do. The occurrences of the pattern of the last 4 hands being repeated for the next 4 hands was approx 56 times, aprrox 225 decision or expressed as a percentage just less than 7%. Meaning that 93% of the time the trend of the last 4 hands didn't continue beyond 4 hands.

Even those occasions when you spot some trend and bet on it's continuance and you get WWWL, that last loss has to canel one of those W's, so if you flat bet you made 2 units. However given that 97% of the time your move to follow the trend won't go beyond the next 4 hands. I would assume that if you flat bet, you would end up in the negative. Approx 4 times out of over 6000 results did a repeating 4 hand sequence, repeat for another 4 hands, meaning a pattern continued for at least 12 hands, percentage wise that's around 0.002%

Given a margin of error of 10% or even 20%, or rearranging of the cells to take into account the last 2 hands of the previous column as opposed to the start of each new column. I think it is fair to assume one can conclude that the way to make money via trends, is to bet AGAINST their continuance. Which is probably why not a single trend player on this site has even posted even the slightest bit of information on how you can make money by exploiting them.

You don't have to take my word of it, you can work through it all yourself. http://savefile.com/projects/808770912


GARNABBYPosted: 01-Jun-09 11:28Delete Edit Mail Profile johno,

As already noted in another thread regarding the "paradoxes" of different baccarat systems "predicting" different outcomes for the same game, one may more to the point claim that every "finite" pattern (given the slight predominance of banker) must occur. So that for every, say, PP B there's a PP P.

However, the problem with (even defining) what is a pattern is that those are really all one infinite pattern. None of the so-called finite patterns can be stacked alongside an other, as in the last sentence of the previous paragraph. (In science it is somewhat accepted, at least in popularist thinking, that the entire and infinite universe could be explained and documented "simply" by etching an EXACT point on a "special" ruler marked from zero to one. That "special" number could in some manner represent the binary code of each and every thing and event.)

What is required is a similarly-EVOLVING (real-time) pattern-detection method. One(s) less-mechanical, which isn't just a "combination" of same or differnt as last or before-last; etc.

Post a Reply on This Topic

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Though there is no knowing the start of endlessness; is there at least one useful constantly-reconverging (to correctness) and evolving method but which still allows for the random results from johno above? (Studying things serially sometimes differs from doing so in a parallel, lateral, or simultaneous manner.)

[Savant]

Originally Posted by Grab The Gold

First, let me say this, "There is NO Mechanical Method or System" that will defeat every Baccarat shoe, it doesn't exist, that's it, plain and simple.

That’s not necessarily true. A skillful player will only bet on hands where he has a recognizable advantage. He will not bet on hands where the house has the edge and he will avoid bets that are too risky to be worth his time. With strong enough information it is possible for a player to beat every shoe he plays against. It sounds unbelievable but it has been done by some pro players that I know of.

That kind of power is incomprehensible to most people but once you start to learn about real skill you will begin to understand and appreciate it. In some cases you can’t even consider it gambling anymore. When you hear about people playing Blackjack with knowledge of the dealer’s hole card, or people who know what card they will be dealt in Casino War, or people playing Three Card Poker with knowledge of all three dealer cards, or people who know the exact results of the next hand of baccarat you will begin to understand that they are not gambling at all. That is the power of skill and it is what allows people to win consistently. I can assure you that none of this is possible with progression systems.

If you guys are serious about winning money then you need to start being honest with yourselves. Stop playing around with progression systems, pattern recognition, stop-losses and every other system that relies on flawed logic. Stop wasting your time with invalid testing procedures that don’t prove anything. Start learning how to play for real. You owe it to yourself to be honest about this. If you aren't serious and you just want to play for fun that's fine, but you need to be honest about it to yourself and to the people you are giving advice to.

[Grab The Gold]

It is clear and obvious to me Mr. SAVANT, that YOU have NOT played the game as seriously as I have. You continually contradict everything I post on this website. I do play Baccarat, I have won serious money as well as my clients, in addition, I am a published author in the field of Blackjack and have played semi-professionally for two years around the globe! Say what you will, I totally disregard anything you have to offer because clearly you don't play serious Baccarat! Any comments you post here are clearly non-productive, and it is YOU that must start to curtail your comments regarding this game, because it has become blatantly obvious you are stuck on always being right. I am sorry to be blunt, but you need to really get a life! You are the one that needs to stop giving advice ... get a life will you please!

[Savant]

If you have to be told that progression systems don't work then you are not a serious player, you are just another gambler like all the rest. That information has been well known for centuries. If you haven't gotten that far in your career then you haven't even begun yet. Be honest with yourself.

[Grab The Gold]

You know Mr. Savant, my "Methods" honestly have earned me some very nice rewards over the years ... you should just keep FLAT betting where you think you have the advantage in the shoe there buddy, heck, you MUST be "PSYCHIC!" Knowing what is going to happen and where to INSERT your "Advantages" FLAT BET during a game, that, I would love to see! You MUST be the ONLY person alive that can PREDICT what the next hand in Baccarat is going to be ... WOW, now there's a serious NEWS FLASH! That is certainly PRIME "FODDER" for those members on this Forum. You could TEACH us all on how to be that "Psychic" and get wealthy beyond all our dreams! I, myself, would PAY "BIG" money to attend that seminar! I hope all the members who read your posts prescribe to your "Advantage" play philosophy, learn your tricks, and put it to good use; I am sure that they can possibly win maybe (1 - 3) units per shoe, or at minimum lose only (1-3) units per shoe? As far as I am concerned, for those of us whom are NOT "Psychic" and are unable to "Predict" where and when the "Advantage Play" is coming, we'll all just have to employ some creative method in an attempt to recapture any losses incurred as we go along.

And, as for me, I openly admit that I NEVER know what the next hand is going to be, I simply "Employ" methods to position myself for any eventuality, and you know, it works for me, I use semi-moderate progressions and I make an average of 18 - 25% percent on my wagers at the conclusion of each shoe which usually equates to around (8-15) units of my base bet unit, and you know something, I am NOT "Psychic!", how did I do that? ... GEE, who would have thought it was possible?

Those Forum members who have contributed data for my research, all have received their results, tell you what, I'll let them decide! For me, I am not spending any serious time at a Baccarat table to make (1-3) units, that is simply ridiculous and certainly NOT worth my time and effort! I made the last few POSTS yesterday in order to answer some questions for those who have emailed me regarding the subjects I discussed and the methods I employed to get them those results. I showed them what works for me and tested their data against my methods, and I NEVER said that what I use is a MUST, not even close, as a matter of fact I have always preached that each person if devising a method should be comfortable with it, and test it well BEFORE putting their money into "Live Action!"

Enough of this non-productive banter, I have endured your sarcasm and criticisms long enough, I am NOT being overly sensitive here, just tired of enduring your ridiculous conclusions about my "Methods" when you haven't seen any results that they create? You insist on criticizing anyone who disagrees with you or tries to provide or offer any kind of perspective or ideas to others, YOU always have to have the final word ... okay then, you are all done now, we've heard your feedback, now let the rest of us continue on our way! I've invited you on many occasions to send me data, but you haven't sent any, you have NO room to offer any comments on my methods because frankly, you haven't seen them work, the offer is now closed to you. Additionally, you don't see me criticizing anyone else's ideas on this website with the exception of this post. However, anytime you'd like to invite all of us to watch you FLAt BET your way to wealth as you say you and your Pro Gambling friends can, and make that all important "Advantage" play that you commented on below in the previous thread, I am sure some of us here would love to see it, certainly me in particular!

Also, yes, I am a "Gambler", anyone who plays in a Casino is! You discredited yourself immediately with the comment that anyone who uses any kind of progression is "Gambling", well there partner, anyone who plays ANY game in a Casino is "Gambling" ... even the FLAT BETTORS like YOU!

Like your membership handle suggests ... you MUST be a "SAVANT" because YOU certainly have ALL the answers on this website! You must have thought yourself to be one, a SAVANT that is ... to give yourself that alias.

Enough already ... this Goose is totally cooked!

[Chord strummer]

Originally Posted by Grab The Gold

There is NO fee, you send me your results and I'll run them through my method and send you back the results, it's just that easy.

Grab the Gold

Hey GTG,

Thanks for running the two shoes I've sent you using your method. The results are very impressive, considering that I (in my opinion) sent you some of the tough ones.
I also find your notes in this forum very informative and helpful!

[jsintl]

Hi GTG

Thanks for your plays of the 2 shoes I emailed you.

The results are very impressive.

Hoping to hear more from you.

Brgds
Joey

[Savant]

Hold on there GTG. Let’s not get carried away with this psychic nonsense. I’m not talking about supernatural powers, I’m talking about having information about the order of the cards in the shoe. Every technique for beating casino games involves getting additional information of some sort. Everything including card counting, hole carding, shuffle tracking, sequencing, steering, sorting, or any other method involves having more information about the game than the casino expects. These techniques are very well known among professional players. In fact, most of them have been published for many years now. You won’t find any of them in the Ten Best Books list on this site though. For some reason only scammers like John Patrick and Frank Scoblete are mentioned.

Specifically, the method I was talking about was a style of sequencing that would tell the player what the next several cards are likely to be. It is described in detail in one of the books Katweezel mentioned here.

I’ll give a very general description and people can read the books and ask me questions for further details.

Suppose you have shuffled these two segments together:

AH,3C,6S,8D,3S,9C,AD,4H
QS,JH,5C,9C,7D,KC,4S,5C

The first round of play uses the cards AH, QS, 3C, 6S, JH, 5C. What is the next card going to be? It has to be either 9C or 8D. There is no other option. Since both cards give the Player bet an advantage (21.53% and 17.3% respectively) the player would bet on the Player side for the next hand based on the first card (he might bet 22% of his bankroll on the next hand depending on his betting strategy). He could also use that information to predict what the specific total of the final hands will be for both the Player and the Banker. That is incredibly strong information. It may seem supernatural to most gamblers and it might even sound impossible to most forum members (and published authors) but it is a real way to use skill to get a huge advantage over the casino. Like I said before, it has been done by pros in the past. It works.

As far as the gambling aspect, the more skill you have the less of a gamble you are taking. If you are playing poker with knowledge of your opponent’s cards, it that really considered gambling? What about those other games I mentioned? (Casino War, Three Card Poker, Blackjack) Is it still gambling when you know what the cards are going to be? Sort of, but not really. In any case it shows the vast difference between playing with knowledge and fooling around with faulty progression systems.

In terms of your system, my only initial criticism was that the testing method is completely useless. It is not a reliable test and it won’t tell you anything about how well the system will perform. I explained exactly why that is. So far you have not disagreed with that point. After your recent post showed that your system is just another progression system I made another criticism about it being no better than any other progression system. You have not disagreed with that point either. In fact, you haven’t offered any evidence to support your claims. You defend your system by insulting people who point out its weaknesses but you seem to have trouble refuting the criticism. I think that is where a lot of this hostility is coming from.

[Grab The Gold]

First, of all, even if this "Card Identification" scheme was true, which I believe it isn't, NOBODY is going to stick around watching half the shoe for that "PERFECT" combination to show up, most who go to play Baccarat, want to play Baccarat, NOT watch cards all day long! Second, I have NEVER agreed with you about anything on this website, in none of my POSTS have I ever agreed with you about anything or methods you have brought forward. LIVE Baccarat isn't Mathematics (although I use Math) to calculate my odds of repeating hands while playing; bottom line, we are at the Casino to play maybe one or two shoes in a day, NOT millions of shoes to see if if the probabilities come to fruition. I am here to give the members "Real Life" methods that I use to make money at this game, they can test them themselves and ascertain their validity as they wish. Please DO NOT make any reference to me in any of your POSTS henceforth, because frankly, I do not believe you are a serious Baccarat player! I have two VERY wealthy clients that as far as know to this date have earned over two million dollars using my "Methods" if not more (I don't here from them daily, just every few months). So, READ your books by George Joseph and others, I play REAL BACCARAT, that's what I do; and in playing real Baccarat, even if you aren't playing every hand, you will lose some hands, that's a fact. How you recover your losses sensibly defines your playing acumen, thus, I use very moderate and conservative level-oriented progression to recapture those intermittent losses. Furthermore, I am going to POST what those betting methods are for all the members to test, no one will have to go out and buy a book to validate them, they can try them themselves at home. And finally, I have processed numerous shoes for this community and sent results to many members whom have contributed data using some of these progressions, haven't heard any complaints? Most have been impressed with the amounts of WINS it produces throughout a shoe, and that is good enough for me!

[Savant]

Do you see what I mean about hostility? If you had simply responded to my post with evidence to back up your claims we could be done with this discussion already. Instead you decided to brag about how great you think your system is and how successful you say your friends have been. Once again you didn’t address any of my issues with your system and you didn’t deny the faults that I pointed out. It almost seems like you’re avoiding those questions. You also mocked me for reading books that were written by legitimate professionals. Perhaps you should read them before you offer your opinions. This discussion will go much more smoothly if you know what you are talking about. Maybe you should take some time off. You seem to have caught a case of garnabby fever.

I don’t think you understand the method I described. Why would you think that it is necessary to wait for a “perfect combination” to happen? If you know what order the cards are in then you could bet on every hand with perfect knowledge of what bet will win. The nice thing about Baccarat is that you can bet on all possible outcomes, Player, Banker or Tie. You can make whatever bet you want whenever you want. You don’t have to wait for anything. They are all perfect combinations when you know what the cards will be! The system I described does not give perfect information but it is very accurate and will give you a huge advantage against the casino if you can find an opportunity to use it. Professional teams have used it to make unbelievable amounts of money over the past decade or so. I assure you it is legit. As I said, if you spend some time reading some good books you can learn this all for yourself.

Originally Posted by Grab The Gold

we are at the Casino to play maybe one or two shoes in a day, NOT millions of shoes to see if if the probabilities come to fruition.

But the system with the best performance in the long run will give you the best expected performance in the short run as well. According to your logic, playing Russian Roulette with 1 bullet is the same as playing with 5 bullets because you are only going to pull the trigger once. It’s just flawed gambler’s logic. You always want to go with the best odds even in the short run.

I also think you’re confused about the length of time it takes to reach the long run. How many hands do you think it takes to have a 99% chance of achieving the long run odds? How would you calculate that for different strategies?

[Grab The Gold]

Okay's here's the Strategy ... something CONCRETE that you have yet to provide Mr. SAVANT. It works IN - CONCERT with my Proprietary EVERY HAND Playing Strategy which I just did for a member.

My folks ask me to put up or shut up, I'm always up for the challenge!

The Betting Strategy is as follows:

First, STOP after (3) consecutive losses and WAIT for (1) WIN before re-entering play, all the while using your Playing Strategy to tell you when to re-enter and generate that signal "Win."

Level - 1

10 (Win here, STAY at this bet)
15 (Win here, return to $10)
15 (Win here, GO TO Level-2)

Level-2

15 (Win here, repeat until all Losses are recovered, then Level-1)
30 (Win here, return to $15 this Level, or until all losses are recovered, then Level-1)
30 (Win here, GO TO Level-3)

Level-3

30 (Win here, repeat until all Losses are recovered, then Level-1)
45 (Win here, return to $30 this Level, or until all losses are recovered, then Level-1)
45 (Win here, GO TO Level-4)

Level-4 (You very rarely, get to this level, but it happened in this demo)

45 (Win here, repeat until all Losses are recovered, then Level-1)
70 (Win here, return to $45 this Level, or until all losses are recovered, then Level-1)
70 (Win here, GO TO Level-5)

Level - 5 (YOU ARE OUT Mate! This shoe just ATE your lunch! That having been said, my shoes NEVER get FED!)

At least I am putting something CONCRETE up here that the members can experiment with, rather than fluffy dialogue. I have participated, sent results to members, done everything a good member is expected to do to help the members, you don't like it ... DON'T USE IT! Again, it works IN - CONCERT with my playing strategy which is the REAL KEY! But members whom are destined to "Designing" their own strategies can TEST this and see if it works with their methods. And by the way, my "Method" is NOT a "System", it's a "Strategy", a system implies that their will be a guaranteed result, I make NO guarantees, I use what I have and take my chances just like everyone else who plays this game.

An important note: You can make the dollar values anything you'd like, as long as you align them so that you can fully revover any losses within (2-3) BETS. I.E. make the (30) bets (25) and so on.

Oh, and "By the Way", I don't need to read those books, I write books on "Gaming" also, just finished one on Baccarat, yet to be published, and have one on "Blackjack" available on Amazon.com and in bookstores.

[Savant]

Now THAT’S funny. You post instructions for following a worthless betting progression system and you claim that your advice is “concrete”. I’ve posted five different ways to legitimately beat Baccarat and you call them fluff. That is exactly why people with any knowledge or experience avoid websites like this one. I’m starting to understand why this website has only two active members.

I was also amused by your little ego trip at the end with the ‘I don’t need to read books because I write books’ attitude. Don’t use your arrogance as an excuse for your ignorance. If you could put your ego aside for a while you might actually learn something about the game. Keep in mind that the last person who took an ego trip on this website didn’t even know the house edge. Now we have a self-proclaimed author who has never done any relevant research in his field. That’s another reason why people with knowledge and experience avoid websites like this.

And once again you managed to completely ignore all of my questions and overlook the flaws in your system. It’s beginning to look like you guys don’t want to discuss Baccarat at all, you just want to brag and pretend to be big-shot players. And when someone with actual knowledge comes along and shatters your dreams you get defensive and attack them any way you can. You cover your ears, stomp your feet and say “I can’t hear the truth! I’m right! I’m right! I’m right!” Yet another reason why people with knowledge and experience avoid websites like this.

So since you won’t allow me to discuss Baccarat, what should we talk about? Movie reviews?

[anotherusernametaken]

I know it is frustrating when you believe in something and people trash it or you. I think if you are trying to help someone then just tell the truth. Put your ideas out there and say how you have been doing with them and then maybe someone can pick up on it and improve it or use it and won. For me, I have been using a mm that goes like this. I bet 1 unit for 7 plays. I then see how I did for the 7 bets. I treat it like a basketball or hockey series. If I win 4 bets or more (eg-4-3) I stay at 1 unit. If I get blown out and lose 2 bets out of 7 then I go to 2 units for next series. If I go 3-4. I usually go to 1.5 units. If I keep losing series then eventually I get to 5 units . user

[Chord strummer]

Originally Posted by usernametaken

I bet 1 unit for 7 plays. I then see how I did for the 7 bets. I treat it like a basketball or hockey series. If I win 4 bets or more (eg-4-3) I stay at 1 unit. If I get blown out and lose 2 bets out of 7 then I go to 2 units for next series. If I go 3-4. I usually go to 1.5 units. If I keep losing series then eventually I get to 5 units . user

Hi User,

Did you mean if you win only 2 bets out of seven you go to two units? And if you continue losing, do you go to 2,5; 3 or 4 units, in other words, do you increase your series by half a bet, one bet or 2 bets after losing 7 series?
Thanks.

[anotherusernametaken]

yes I try to increase by 1/2 unit if I lose 4 games to 3. However if I lose 5 bets or 6 or 7 I go up by 1 unit. That way I could go (3-4) -1
next sequence= 1.5 ( 3-4) -1.5 (-2.5 overall)
next sequence= 2 ( 2-5)- 2 (-4.5 overall)
Now at this point we go to 3 units (mostly because of 3 series lost.
( 4-3) +1 (-1.5 overall
-4.5 and get back 3 units) so down to 2 units (4-3) +1 +.5 overall
Now back to 1 unit (4-3) +1 +1.5 overall . Commissions might bite into this somewhat but we have done well. ie- 22 losses- 20 wins. and we make a few units. Not too much exposure to the bankroll- our highest bet was 3 units. we could carry it even further and say _1,-1.5 -2,-3. so four series lost and -7.5. win the 4 series (+4) win the 3 series (+3) win the 2 series (+2+ win the 1 series (+1) -7.5 in losses and +11 in wins for a +3.5 win in units. 8 series played . Realistic game 56 hands played and 28 wins and 28 losses and +3.5. User

[Chord strummer]

Thank you, user, I appreciate your response.

The best of luck in everything.

Chordstrummer

[Mikewin]

Hi Savant

I thought Flat Betting system is 1 of the safe system to play. Suspose we play all B in 75hand of 1shoe, if B=40hands, P=35hands we will win 5hands deduct 2hand comission so we win 3hands. But in case B=38hand, P=37hand we chose any side to bet still lose the games. So the smart player must always change the tactic, pattern to play.

hi GTG

It is still call a test since you know the result already? I dont understand wat a test mean!

Mikewin

[Grab The Gold]

Mike,

When a TEST is made, the members send me their data and I run it through a FIXED "Strategy" and send them their results, the entire run complete with the PLAYING and BETTING Strategy in place. It doesn't matter if I already know the outcome beforehand, the STRATEGIES are FIXED.

Grab the Gold