Thread: Share 1 Baccarat Method

Hi all baccarat memeber! I am a new member in this forum I would like to share 1 method which I do as below:
A. The method study only on baccarat table with 8deck card.
B. The Method play from the beginning hand number 1 until hand 48th in 1shoe of game.
C. The method limited the amount money lose/win ( lose max -380 Vs win max +380 ).
D. The method have many many ways to play depend on what ways we decide to pick to play.
Each ways have it own opposite side For example if you pick play all in P so it opposit side is B.
I show 1 example as below: ( The example I pick is all bet on P side, I show 3 ways to bet ).
Betway1 Betway2 Betway3 Win(+)/Lose(-)
1. 10 10 10 +
2. 11 4 4 +
3. 4 12 5 -
4. 5 6 5 -
5. 21 22 19 -
6. 16 9 6 -
7. 0 9 2 -
8. 2 2 4 +
9. 18 20 22 +
10. 13 6 9 +
11. 7 16 9 +
12 0 0 2 +
13. 22 20 19 -
14. 15 4 4 +
15. 5 15 5 -
16. 6 9 6 -
17. 21 18 19 -
18. 14 7 6 -
19. 0 9 2 -
20. 2 2 4 -
21. 21 19 18 +
22. 15 4 4 +
23. 7 13 6 +
24. 7 7 9 -
25. 20 22 24 +
26. 12 1 1 +
27. 4 14 7 -
28. 9 6 5 -
29. 23 22 19 +
30. 12 4 4 +
31. 3 13 6 +
32. 7 7 9 +
33. 20 18 17 -
34. 15 4 4 +
35. 5 15 5 -
36. 6 9 6 -
37. 21 18 19 -
38. 14 7 6 +
39. 4 12 3 +
40. 4 4 3 -
41. 22 23 24 +
42. 11 0 0 -
43. 5 11 1 -
44. 4 4 6 -
45. 23 22 20 +
46. 15 4 4 -
47. 5 15 5 -
48. 4 4 6 +
Win(+47) Lose(-23) Win(+34)

Hope this will help for all.

Mikewin

Mikewin,

Please explain the difference in methods 1&3 from 2, the losing one. (Beyond that, all i can say is that looks like your first post about the casinos rigging things... some sort of Ellis' "net betting" (except by 3 different player methods,) etc, nonsense.)

Originally Posted by Mikewin

Hi all baccarat memeber! I am a new member in this forum I would like to share 1 method which I do as below:
A. The method study only on baccarat table with 8deck card.
B. The Method play from the beginning hand number 1 until hand 48th in 1shoe of game.
C. The method limited the amount money lose/win ( lose max -380 Vs win max +380 ).
D. The method have many many ways to play depend on what ways we decide to pick to play.
Each ways have it own opposite side For example if you pick play all in P so it opposit side is B.
I show 1 example as below: ( The example I pick is all bet on P side, I show 3 ways to bet ).
Betway1 Betway2 Betway3 Win(+)/Lose(-)
1. 10 10 10 +
2. 11 4 4 +
3. 4 12 5 -
4. 5 6 5 -
5. 21 22 19 -
6. 16 9 6 -
7. 0 9 2 -
8. 2 2 4 +
9. 18 20 22 +
10. 13 6 9 +
11. 7 16 9 +
12 0 0 2 +
13. 22 20 19 -
14. 15 4 4 +
15. 5 15 5 -
16. 6 9 6 -
17. 21 18 19 -
18. 14 7 6 -
19. 0 9 2 -
20. 2 2 4 -
21. 21 19 18 +
22. 15 4 4 +
23. 7 13 6 +
24. 7 7 9 -
25. 20 22 24 +
26. 12 1 1 +
27. 4 14 7 -
28. 9 6 5 -
29. 23 22 19 +
30. 12 4 4 +
31. 3 13 6 +
32. 7 7 9 +
33. 20 18 17 -
34. 15 4 4 +
35. 5 15 5 -
36. 6 9 6 -
37. 21 18 19 -
38. 14 7 6 +
39. 4 12 3 +
40. 4 4 3 -
41. 22 23 24 +
42. 11 0 0 -
43. 5 11 1 -
44. 4 4 6 -
45. 23 22 20 +
46. 15 4 4 -
47. 5 15 5 -
48. 4 4 6 +
Win(+47) Lose(-23) Win(+34)

Hope this will help for all.

Mikewin

Dear Mr. Garnabby and all forum member!

First I would like to say thanks for your question!

We all member here I thought, we all have same sence and aiming is discuss about the baccarat in order going to find a good method to play to win. That's why we are here in this forum.

As mention in the brief description A, B, C, and ( D: the method have many many way to play depend on which way we are pick to play. In each way have it own opposit side in the example the opposit side is B).

Actually in the method just only the way bet on P side there are about more than 30ways difference. I will going to post when I do finish the caculation.

The difference the example is the amount money to put in the bet each hand and each amount to bet in each hand is base on the calculation from previous 1hand, it is not to put in as I am think to put or as I want to put. So the result is difference 1&3 win but 2 lose.

As mention in the method each way have it own opposit side, suppose OBway1 is the opposit side of Betway1, OBway2 is the opposit side of Betway2, OBway3 is the opposit side of Betway3 so the result in case we chose bet on B side is ( OBway1 lose(-47 and deduct 5% discount in each hand win by the casino, or when we play on the no commision table but have to deduct 50% amount paid in case B win on six); ( OBway2 win(+23 and deduct 5% discount in each hand win by the casino, or when we play on the no commision table but have to deduct 50% amount paid in case B win on six); ( OBway2 lose(-34 and deduct 5% discount in each hand win by the casino, or when we play on the no commision table but have to deduct 50% amount paid in case B win on six).

Mikewin

Hi All baccarat Memeber!

Here I would like to add more 4 difference way to bet.

The amount money to bet on each way alway not same as the figure base on the result of each hand. so the amount money alway change!

Hope this will helpfull for you all.

Betway4 Betway5 Betway6 Betway7 Win(+)/Lose(-)
1. 10 10 10 10 +
2. 4 4 4 4 +
3. 5 5 2 5 -
4. 15 8 4 3 -
5. 22 23 21 21 -
6. 7 9 9 7 -
7. 2 2 0 3 -
8. 11 1 5 4 +
9. 21 18 21 19 +
10. 7 6 6 5 +
11. 9 9 6 6 +
12 9 0 3 3 +
13. 20 23 22 22 -
14. 5 6 5 8 +
15. 4 4 8 4 -
16. 15 8 7 5 -
17. 18 20 21 21 -
18. 5 7 7 3 -
19. 2 2 0 3 -
20. 11 1 5 4 -
21. 19 22 21 21 +
22. 5 6 5 8 +
23. 6 6 5 9 +
24. 16 6 6 9 -
25. 23 20 21 21 +
26. 4 2 3 5 +
27. 7 7 1 6 -
28. 15 8 7 6 -
29. 22 23 23 23 +
30. 5 3 2 5 +
31. 6 6 1 5 +
32. 16 6 6 7 +
33. 18 21 20 20 -
34. 5 6 5 8 +
35. 4 4 8 4 -
36. 15 8 7 5 -
37. 18 20 21 21 -
38. 5 7 7 4 +
39. 1 2 5 1 +
40. 10 1 5 3 -
41. 23 22 21 21 +
42. 3 1 3 4 -
43. 4 3 4 4 -
44. 13 5 5 6 -
45. 22 23 23 23 +
46. 5 5 5 8 -
47. 4 2 8 4 -
48. 13 4 5 6 +
Lose(-5) Win(+13) Win(+6) Win(+28)

Have a nice weekend!

Mikewin

Dear All Baccarat fan!

I already finished my study on the method which I post here!

Every method should have a name so I would like name it as " MWIN METHOD " M is initial for Mike or Might + Win. So I am will use " MWIN named for the method. It should call might win method or I am win method. LoLz............

The " MWIN METHOD " Build on 2 important concept:

1. Money Management strategy. It allow limited amount money to play. There two way to control
A. Max win/lose in 250usd in 48hand or 310usd in 60hand in a shoe of game.
B. Max win/lose in 380usd in 48hand or 450usd in 60hand in a shoe of game.

2. Flexible tactic. " I am agree idea of Mr. E. Clifton at BTC that " the casino orchantrate the game and defeat player 1 by 1 " I myself also have the same idea so I built this method in order again the orchantrate by the casino, in the method have many ways to play, so they can only orchantrate effected only few ways they can not orchantrate effect all the ways in the method. So the best way to play is alway change the tactic in our game after finish a shoe, dont let the casino catch ur tactic to play.

Sorry that I am not post all of the way in my method here! I thought better keep something private!

Have a nice weekend!

Mikewin

Just so this thread isn't a total waste, here's an excerpt from BTC today:




baccatit wrote,

Just play opposite the others if the casino is cheating... instead of getting "compliated"?





bacpilot repied,

Re: Just play opposite the others if the casino is cheating... instead of getting "compliated"?

This is simple brilliance.......





Keith Smith replied,

The saying from other players who have known this is Play the
same with those who are winning and opposite those who are
losing. Change as necessary. I think its a viable strategy





E. Clifton Davis replied,

I see em try that every time I play. But I never saw anybody
win that way.

That's what they all do but the casino retains 26% of the
drop. Those are the guys that make Baccarat the #1 profit
maker for the casino. It used to be BJ at 15%. But now its
Baccarat at 26%. The problem with playing against a loser is
that it tends to make him change his ways. Also its VERY
common for a player to go down and then come back up. Now he
wins and YOU lose.

If the method you propose worked, the casinos would have gone
broke on Baccarat a long time ago. BUT instead, their profits
went from 3% in the late 80's to 26% today because of players
doing exactly what you propose.

It just ain't that easy.





baccatit replied,

bacpilot,

I'm happy to see at least one person got the point.

Whether the casino alters the cards by "washing" and/or
shuffling, and did that have any effect on the 'PB...'
outcomes, they wouldn't be doing it to lose.

Just playing the opposite the others provides an immediate
heads up to that (if actually occurring) instead of waiting
for the cheating patterns to show up in which case any one can
see the new pattern provided it's not later re-altered by the
casino again. (Waiters are losers then.)

So... play opposite the others just in case the casino is
cheating; and if they're not cheating, then that style of play
has no more/less to win/lose because the outcomes would then
be truly random, for which Davis claims there is no baccarat
strategy anyway.

(BTW what happened to that post by Julian(?) where Davis says
to "wash the cards with your finger tips but not your palms"?
Classic.)

Ellis,

I thought about that 26% some more.

If playing against the other players, doesn't that make me the
house... and that 26% mine?

Why second guess the house or the other players along the
way... why not just keep that 26% coming???? Then the house
gets nothing, not even the vig!!!!

(And even if there is no 26%, then the house would be limited
to the vig.)





aegis21 replied,

ok, I am truly glad you are happy, that alone made this worth
posting! LOL
Now, let me get this straight, you bet against the other
players. So If we all did that who would we bet against,
ourselves? I alwyas thought that it would be easiest to come
up with the worst system in bac and then simply bet against
it! Why doesn't anyone do that? There are MANY losing systems
on other sites, just get them and bet the opposite and you
have a garunteed winner! I hope this isn't above or below you,
but you get it.
Thanks for giving me something to do today and smile while I'm
doing it! Big smile, big smile!






baccatit replied,

aegis,

I guess that's how Ellis ended up with his "netbetting"... by
second guessing (himself).





Mikewin, maybe you should join the three stooges, (Ellis, Keith, and aegis) over there. You already fit right in. Have a nice life with that. Of course if you want to waste more time then keep writing to yourself in this thread.

Dear Mr. Garnabby

Thanks for your sincere advice and consultant!!!

1. Pls do not misunderstanding that I said " the casino orchestate is cheating " the casino shuffling the card in public there nothing cheating but behind the sence each type of shuffling will give a difference result and the result of the game and defeat some one which we dont know as we are in the bright side they are in the dark side so they can pick anyone of the player defeated ". The casino arrange the card ready and we player play after they arrange, this was fair, right? This is the casino strategy!!!
So dont misunderstanding that I am saying the casino cheating!

2. Many people think that play opposite is the best and intelligent way! For me, play opposite is correct but what method you use to play opposite will lead you win or lose, it is not mean play opposite will always win the game!!!

Suppose you use any progression method to play opposite will lead the result as below:
A. Direct side lose; opposite side win ( amount win and lose not balance lose much but win small ).
B. Direct side win; opposite side lose ( amount win and lose not balance lose much but win small ).
C. Direct side win; opposite side win ( Amount win small )
D. Direct side lose; opposite side also lose ( Amount lose big )

As the progression method not balance the amount win/lose, win small amount but lose big amount!!!

So dont think that play opposite will always win the game, depend on what method you use to play too!!!!! So pls tell me what method you play opposite to win the games????? ARe you sure that play opposite will all time win the game???

The difference " MWIN method between progression method "

a. MWIN method balance amount win/lose, progression method not balance win small but lose big!
b. MWIN method lose 5shoe but in case you multiple bet with 5 or 10time in shoe 6 if you win you can cover the lose back, but the progression method if you lose 1 shoe you have win 2 or 3 or 4shoe back in order to cover your lose! This is one of the strengt potential point of the MWIN method.

I am not say will sale my method at all, I just inform you all member here about my method, and the way of calculation still there it not run anywhere just wait you all find it out. But if you ask me show you the way to calculation free maybe not fair enought, I am study hard for long long time to find this out how can I give someone for free!!! will you ???

In case someone interesting with " MWIN method " they may email to me and I will not give for free but only charge the available price for my working on this method!

I just wonder Mr. Garnabby do you work for any casino?????

Thanks

Mikewin

Dear Mr. Garnabby!

Am I right? or you have any method which guarantee that play opposite side will always win 100%???

Mikewin

Originally Posted by Mikewin

Dear Mr. Garnabby!

Am I right? or you have any method which guarantee that play opposite side will always win 100%???

Mikewin

Here's an excerpt from BTC:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
baccatit wrote,

Just play opposite the others if the casino is cheating... instead of getting "compliated"?





bacpilot repied,

Re: Just play opposite the others if the casino is cheating... instead of getting "compliated"?

This is simple brilliance.......





Keith Smith replied,

The saying from other players who have known this is Play the
same with those who are winning and opposite those who are
losing. Change as necessary. I think its a viable strategy





E. Clifton Davis replied,

I see em try that every time I play. But I never saw anybody
win that way.

That's what they all do but the casino retains 26% of the
drop. Those are the guys that make Baccarat the #1 profit
maker for the casino. It used to be BJ at 15%. But now its
Baccarat at 26%. The problem with playing against a loser is
that it tends to make him change his ways. Also its VERY
common for a player to go down and then come back up. Now he
wins and YOU lose.

If the method you propose worked, the casinos would have gone
broke on Baccarat a long time ago. BUT instead, their profits
went from 3% in the late 80's to 26% today because of players
doing exactly what you propose.

It just ain't that easy.





baccatit replied,

bacpilot,

I'm happy to see at least one person got the point.

Whether the casino alters the cards by "washing" and/or
shuffling, and did that have any effect on the 'PB...'
outcomes, they wouldn't be doing it to lose.

Just playing the opposite the others provides an immediate
heads up to that (if actually occurring) instead of waiting
for the cheating patterns to show up in which case any one can
see the new pattern provided it's not later re-altered by the
casino again. (Waiters are losers then.)

So... play opposite the others just in case the casino is
cheating; and if they're not cheating, then that style of play
has no more/less to win/lose because the outcomes would then
be truly random, for which Davis claims there is no baccarat
strategy anyway.

(BTW what happened to that post by Julian(?) where Davis says
to "wash the cards with your finger tips but not your palms"?
Classic.)

Ellis,

I thought about that 26% some more.

If playing against the other players, doesn't that make me the
house... and that 26% mine?

Why second guess the house or the other players along the
way... why not just keep that 26% coming???? Then the house
gets nothing, not even the vig!!!!

(And even if there is no 26%, then the house would be limited
to the vig.)





aegis21 replied,

ok, I am truly glad you are happy, that alone made this worth
posting! LOL
Now, let me get this straight, you bet against the other
players. So If we all did that who would we bet against,
ourselves? I alwyas thought that it would be easiest to come
up with the worst system in bac and then simply bet against
it! Why doesn't anyone do that? There are MANY losing systems
on other sites, just get them and bet the opposite and you
have a garunteed winner! I hope this isn't above or below you,
but you get it.
Thanks for giving me something to do today and smile while I'm
doing it! Big smile, big smile!





baccatit replied,

aegis,

I guess that's how Ellis ended up with his "netbetting"... by
second guessing (himself).






E. Clifton Davis replied,

Hey quit yappin and try it. Lot's of others have. Put your
money where your mouth is. Some people can only learn the hard
way.





Two minutes later, E. Clifton Davis replied again,

Hey John, is this a new guy or that same idiot again? He said
he played that way too. But it ended up he worked for the
casino.






Baccatit replied,

Yes Ellis,

Everyone else must be the same guy: I'm bacpilot, Archer, the
casino, garnabby, and everyone else all over the net. However,
it seems more likely to all of us from everywhere else at
least that you, aegis, Keith, Suzanne, and wolfat are "one".

There's no point in any more challenges, right? And i doubt
you have any money left anyway.

Asfaras the 26%... well, were that publically
visible/inferrable from any casino's revenue records, it would
be shut down (to prevent a "blackeye" to the industry in
general. The rich do go after the rich then.)





Gablaw replied,

Hey, Baccatit, I've met 3 of the 5 you rolled into one. If
you're right, they've got multiple personalities down pat--or
I'm delusional!

Btw, a very provocative handle.






baccatit replied,

gablaw,

I said are "one", in the sense of the BTC organization.

Please be more careful with your readings. (Anyway, do you
really think i was being literal? You're trying too hard.
Why?)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As soon as Ellis says "John" instead of aegis, you know the gig is just about up, and so another ("legal", and informative) thread deleted by BTC. Anyways, that is the exact conversation, of which the filler has been deleted (but entire thread filed away on my hdd.)





Mikewin,

I hope you're taking notes. As for your meaningless reply to galo's thread (and elegant suggestions) i already wrote, "please keep your (garbage) replies to yourself".

P.S. I am baccatit. (But that username used also in this forum at times was mostly for my own securtity tests of the private forum only.)

Dear Mr. Garnabby

Sigh......I am already take noted that you are not go straight to the point. Anyway forget it.

Mikewin

Hey Mike, how are your systems affected by the house edge? How do they compare to randomly adjusting your bets? Can you show some sort of correlation between your systems and a winning hand? I’m trying to understand how they work but I don’t see what they are supposed to accomplish. What is the theory behind them?

Hi Savant,

I would like to answer your questions as Below:

1. How the " MWIN " effected the house edge?
- By natural of the baccarat the out come P, B it is 50:50 even the drawing rule proctect B side, so it seems the possibility of B get higher % than P, but player have paid 5% comission if bet on B.
" MWIN METHOD " do not effected the house edge. MWIN method has two main choice to bet " Direct bet or opposite bet. If " Direct bet " WIN "oppoisite bet must be" LOSE , amount win/lose balance". It is very difference from progressing betting method.

2.How do they compare to randomly adjusting your bets?
- " MWIN METHOD " is not randomly adjusting bet, each amount to bet is a system calculation base on previous hand, if it is a randomly adjusting there no margin or limited WIN/LOSE, and if it is randomly adjusting bet how we can calculate the margin WIN/LOSE.

For the 3 & 4 question I would like to keep the right not to answer in here.

3. Can you show some sort of correlation between your systems and a winning hand?

4. What is the theory behind them?

Last, I would like to say thanks for your interesting questions!

Mikewin

Originally Posted by Mikewin

- By natural of the baccarat the out come P, B it is 50:50

It’s actually closer to 45.86:44.62, but if you ignore ties then it becomes 50.86:49.32. It may seem like a small difference but it will have a big effect on your results if you are assuming a 50:50 game.

Originally Posted by Mikewin

-" MWIN METHOD" is not randomly adjusting bet, each amount to bet is a system calculation base on previous hand…

If your bets are based on the results of the previous hands then it is a progression system, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Mikewin

" MWIN METHOD " do not effected the house edge.

So if it doesn’t overcome the house edge then how does it give the player an advantage? Why would you raise your bets, or even make any bets in the first place, if the house has the advantage?

Hi Savant

I Suppose that 1shoe of game there only 1 hand, so the possibility of P, B is 50:50, than renew it, so second hand possibility of P, B still 50:50.

If you think this is a progression system so try use any progression system and balance amount win/lose! U will never can do that!

For your 4th question I would like to answer as below:

In the super market there are many many kind of instant noodle " each kind of instant noodle has difference taste "chinese instant noodle, Japanese instant noodle, Thai instant noodle..... " the taste difference depend on it incrident ". MWIN method is some kind of this " I shown 7 difference way to bet on all Player each way bet give difference result as the incrident put to produce was difference.

Mikewin

Originally Posted by Mikewin

I Suppose that 1shoe of game there only 1 hand, so the possibility of P, B is 50:50, than renew it, so second hand possibility of P, B still 50:50.

No, the probability is never 50:50.

Originally Posted by Mikewin

If you think this is a progression system so try use any progression system and balance amount win/lose! U will never can do that!

I know. That's why I don't trust progression systems. No matter how anyone tweaks them they will always suffer from the same fundamental flaw. You can't build a winning system by using a losing system.

Originally Posted by Mikewin

In the super market there are many many kind of instant noodle " each kind of instant noodle has difference taste "chinese instant noodle, Japanese instant noodle, Thai instant noodle..... " the taste difference depend on it incrident ". MWIN method is some kind of this " I shown 7 difference way to bet on all Player each way bet give difference result as the incrident put to produce was difference.

The different kinds of noodles may taste different but they are still only noodles. Your system may have 7 different "flavors" but it is still only a progression system so it will never give you an advantage. If you want to beat the game you have to break out of the progression/trend/pattern mindset. Put away the little toys and start playing with the big boys. You can't expect to beat the game if you don't have any skill. First learn the skills then earn the money. You must be qualified if you expect succeed at any job. Gambling is no different.

Originally Posted by Savant

No, the probability is never 50:50.

Savant,

Never say never: Just remove the 3's, 4's, 5's, and 6's. (Yes, there're many other much more-likely shoe compositions which will have P:B = 50:50 than the trivial case above; especially when that ratio is taken as one bet being as good as the other. And that ratio is ALWAYS in flux.) And BTW, the sum of probabilities of independent outcomes of any event is one.

That's why i don't trust, well... or "tweaking" around.

Hi Savant

Yeah, I shown 7 difference kind of noodle anyhow it still noodle.

Since we build the factory for produce noodle we only can produce noodle we cant produce bread, pizza, soft drink.......!

Anyway MWIN is an industry zone, not only a noodle factory in side. There are many many other factories, which I do not show. As I describe it build on 2 importance concept " money management and flexible method ".

Mikewin

Hi All Baccarat forum!

Is there any one interesting to test or any comment " MWIN METHOD ".

The testing way is I am online test with you. I bet 1 you inform me the result then I continue bet next hand until finish 48 hand or 1shoe.

If anyone interesting pls contact by email.

Thanks

Mikewin

Why can't everyone here understand that you will never find a consistently profitable baccarat system? I feel bad for all you people as I used to be like you. Please stop, you are all wasting your time. Gamble only what you can afford to lose or for pure entertainment. You will never consistently make money off of baccarat or any other casino game. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just trying to save people a lot of grief. The search for a system is a fool's errand. Also, please hold your hostile/profane replies- deep down, you know I'm right and you're just deluding yourselves.

Yes, your are 1000000............% right!!! THERE NO CONSISTENTLY PROFITABLE BACCARAT SYSTEM. But there a systems make profit from baccarat since you play correctly, but the system MUST BE FLOATING " NOT A DEAD SYSTEMS ". You must always changing your systems do not allow the casino catch your tactic, But how to do that??? Not easy, coz when you play in the casino we always been tape, another way is the out come can be control by the casino " this is the very strengt option of the casino and depend on them want to cheat you or not ".

Mikewin

Originally Posted by MrPlow

Why can't everyone here understand that you will never find a consistently profitable baccarat system? I feel bad for all you people as I used to be like you. Please stop, you are all wasting your time. Gamble only what you can afford to lose or for pure entertainment. You will never consistently make money off of baccarat or any other casino game. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just trying to save people a lot of grief. The search for a system is a fool's errand. Also, please hold your hostile/profane replies- deep down, you know I'm right and you're just deluding yourselves.

MrPlow,

You won't know what's available or even possible w/o looking around a bit. Certainly, the "never" approach is as unlikely as the "always" w/o evidence and/or proof. (Associating this message-board, itself, with only "grief", "money", "wasting time", and hostile/profane replies reflects more on you so far.)

At the very least one may ALSO "Gamble only what you can afford to lose or for pure entertainment." To do just the latter is even worse than the "you know I'm right and you're just deluding yourselves" stuff. (As i've written before, i'd rather be deluded but still trying, not making your mistake of calling casinos "entertainment".)

Please hold your own hostile/profane replies.

I know what is available and/or possible. It's called gambler's ruin. You're like those Marxists who can never admit they're wrong and make excuses for failing by blaming it on poor execution, "oh, if the Russians had only done it the right way."

Originally Posted by MrPlow

I know what is available and/or possible. It's called gambler's ruin. You're like those Marxists who can never admit they're wrong and make excuses for failing by blaming it on poor execution, "oh, if the Russians had only done it the right way."

Mr Plow,

Here we go again.

Another know-it-all who can't read and form an intelligent argument for even his own off-topic assertions? (Who here blames anything on "execution"? Who here is advocates for the casinos? Who here claims and presents a proved winning system?)

Marx' and Engels' 'Communist Manifesto' document, itself, says nothing of its own administering, asfaras i recall anyway; and certainly not all forms of socialism withered for whichever legitimate reasons (other than political corruption, which isn't legislatable to begin with). But you're certainly free to "strut your stuff" to the contrary, hopefully by explaining the types of democracy and each's advantages/disavantages to put it into context first. Please get one thing right before trying to make leaping analogies to a bunch of separate points. I'd love to read your implied learned take on Marx (as you more or less wrote he was "just wrong").

Then write something intelligent about baccarat or how we should (otherwise) spend our own time and money; the casinos, gambling psychology, etc. Anything.

Or perhaps change your username again, work yourself up some more?

Mr. Garnabby, I respectfully ask you the following question: how much money have you won during the course of your baccarat playing career?

Originally Posted by MrPlow

Mr. Garnabby, I respectfully ask you the following question: how much money have you won during the course of your baccarat-playing career?

Mr Plow,

If nothing else, you're true to your username.

Anyone with some casino-experience knows the two questions not (properly) asked of "fellow strangers" at a casino involve livelihood and fortune.

And for all the same reasons, i won't post such answers here. But i have posted about the latter in the free private forum.

Anyway, asfaras baccarat is concerned, some other posters (regardless of their methods) have already indicated or implied some success and/or failure. And any one player's result, good or bad, would not be indicative of the other's.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking for myself, casino-gambling is primarily a high-risk, high-gain venture. Few are supposed to "make it". A lot of time, work, and money is involved. You have to like what you're doing because that could be all there is to this.

Originally Posted by Savant

I know. That's why I don't trust progression systems. No matter how anyone tweaks them they will always suffer from the same fundamental flaw. You can't build a winning system by using a losing system.

Savant, From your above quote, You'd say a better system to use is to flat bet or is their a other system that i ain't aware of?

This looks similar - hopefully this will end the nonsensical banter:
Limitations of space, difficulty with copying and pasting parts of an ADOBE file etc. etc. have me placing this in copied and pasted parts.

KISS - BACCARAT SYSTEM

Congratulations! You have acquired one of the simplest yet most effective systems for
Baccarat, that can also easily be applied to Roulette and Craps for even bets.
As the name implies (KISS – Keep It Simple and Smart), this system is very simple to
apply, therefore very easy to learn. As much as it is simple, it is also very smart, as it
practically wins every pattern that can occur within Player and Banker decisions in
Baccarat. We won’t be betting on Tie bets. Tie bets will be considered as non-existent.
This document assumes you are fully acquainted with the rules of Baccarat.

This is also a very safe system. There are no steep progressions requiring doubling up
for an extended number of bets. Therefore, there is no risk to your bankroll. As a matter
of fact, the first phase of the system requires only 3 steps. And those are as easily
remembered as 1,2,3. In fact, those are the very steps of the progression.

The Progression

During the first phase of the system, you bet 1 unit on your first bet. If you win, you are 1
unit ahead. Your next bet is 1 unit again. If you lose your first bet, you are 1 unit down
and your second bet is 2 units. If you win your second bet you are 1 unit ahead. You
start with 1 unit again on your next bet. If you lose your second bet, you are down by 3
units; your third bet will be 3 units. If you win your third bet, you break even (or a bit less
if your win happens to be on a Banker bet). And you start with 1 unit again. If you lose
your third bet, you will be down by 6 units. That’s when we step into Phase 2.
So, we are looking at 4 possibilities:
1) a W, a winner
2) a L W, a winner
3) a L L W, breaks even
4) a L L L, a temporary loss until Phase 2.

Description

The system has only 2 phases. The first phase consists of 3 steps. In the first phase,
you will be winning on ALL patterns that may occur in Player and Banker decisions,
except one. That’s when we step into Phase 2, which wins also that remaining pattern,
should that pattern last.
The first phase looks into the last 2 decisions. Should it streak, you go with the streak.
Should it chop, you go with the chop. That’s all. Amazingly simple. Yet, let’s see what it
achieves.
If the last 2 decisions are P P, your next bet is a P (Player), as you are following the
streak. Similarly, if the last decisions are B B, your next bet will be on B (Banker), as you
follow the streak (repetition).
When decisions alternate (B to P, or P to B), we will call it a chop. So, if the last 2
decisions are B P, you will bet on B on your next bet, as you follow the chop. Similarly if
the last 2 decisions are P B, you will bet on P on your next bet.
Since the first phase consists of a 3 step mild progression (with betting amounts 1,2,3),
we are looking into patterns formed by 5 decisions (the last 2 decisions plus the 3 bets of
the progression). There are 32 such combinations (2 to the power of 5); 2 because of
either Player or Banker and 5 because of 5 consecutive decisions.
We will be viewing all of the 32 combinations. This is easily done with binary arithmetic.
If you don’t know what this means, don’t worry; we will convert everything back to P’s and
B’s. Binary arithmetic consists of representing all numbers with 2 digits only: a 0 and a
1. This is what computers use. 0 being the lack of 5V or 12V voltage and 1 its existence.
All logic is derived from it.
In binary arithmetic, that is using numbers that are only 0’s and 1’s, a 0 is a 0, a 1 is a 1,
a 2 is 10 (because we have no other digits), a 3 is a 11, a 4 is a 100, a 5 is a 101 and so

on. The following chart displays all 32 combinations:

Chart 1:

Combination 1 – 00000 (the number 0)
Combination 2 – 00001 (the number 1)
Combination 3 – 00010 (the number 2)
Combination 4 – 00011 (the number 3)
Combination 5 – 00100 (the number 4)
Combination 6 – 00101 (the number 5)

Combination 7 – 00110 (the number 6)
Combination 8 – 00111 (the number 7)
Combination 9 – 01000 (the number 8)
Combination 10 – 01001 (the number 9)
Combination 11 – 01010 (the number 10)
Combination 12 – 01011 (the number 11)
Combination 13 – 01100 (the number 12)
Combination 14 – 01101 (the number 13)
Combination 15 – 01110 (the number 14)
Combination 16 – 01111 (the number 15)
Combination 17 – 10000 (the number 16)
Combination 18 – 10001 (the number 17)
Combination 19 – 10010 (the number 18)
Combination 20 – 10011 (the number 19)
Combination 21 – 10100 (the number 20)
Combination 22 – 10101 (the number 21)
Combination 23 – 10110 (the number 22)
Combination 24 – 10111 (the number 23)
Combination 25 – 11000 (the number 24)
Combination 26 – 11001 (the number 25)
Combination 27 – 11010 (the number 26)
Combination 28 – 11011 (the number 27)
Combination 29 – 11100 (the number 28)
Combination 30 – 11101 (the number 29)
Combination 31 – 11110 (the number 30)
Combination 32 – 11111 (the number 31)
The reason for this exercise was not to show you how computers work, but just to make
sure we did not miss any combination. Now we simply plug P in the place of a 0 and a B
in the place of a 1 in the above chart and we obtain all P and B combinations in a 5-
decision sequence, shown in chart 2:

Chart 2:

Combination 1 – PPPPP
Combination 2 – PPPPB
Combination 3 – PPPBP
Combination 4 – PPPBB
Combination 5 – PPBPP
Combination 6 – PPBPB

Combination 7 – PPBBP
Combination 8 – PPBBB
Combination 9 – PBPPP
Combination 10 – PBPPB
Combination 11 – PBPBP
Combination 12 – PBPBB
Combination 13 – PBBPP
Combination 14 – PBBPB
Combination 15 – PBBBP
Combination 16 – PBBBB
Combination 17 – BPPPP
Combination 18 – BPPPB
Combination 19 – BPPBP
Combination 20 – BPPBB
Combination 21 – BPBPP
Combination 22 – BPBPB
Combination 23 – BPBBP
Combination 24 – BPBBB
Combination 25 – BBPPP
Combination 26 – BBPPB
Combination 27 – BBPBP
Combination 28 – BBPBB
Combination 29 – BBBPP
Combination 30 – BBBPB
Combination 31 – BBBBP

Combination 32 – BBBBB

Now, since we are looking at 2 decisions (the very first ones on the above combinations)
and we are following a streak or a chop:

-

after BB we play B

-

after PP we play P

-

after PB we play P

-

after BP we play B,
and we are betting between 1 and 3 bets for the 3 decisions following the first 2, based
on the criteria above, let’s see which ones of the above 32 combinations is a winner,
breaks even, or loses all 3 bets. Remember that a W wins, an LW wins, LLW breaks
even, and an LLL loses all 3 bets for now.

For example, take Combination 15 – PBBBP. We see the first 2 decisions are PB. This
is a chop. So we bet on the opposite of the last decision, that is on P and we lose. Now
we have PBB. The last 2 decisions are BB. This is a streak. So we bet on the same as
the last decision, that is on a B and we win. We won on our second bet. This
combination represents an LW, thus a winner, because of the 1,2,3 progression.
As another example, take Combination 29 – BBBPP. We see the first 2 decisions are
BB. This is a streak. So we bet on the same as the last decision, that is on B and we
win. This represents a W, thus a winner.
Let’s take Combination 8 – PPBBB. The first 2 decisions are PP, a streak. We bet on P,
we lose. Now the last 2 decisions are PB, a chop. We bet on P, we lose again. Now the
last 2 decisions are BB, a streak. We bet on B. We win. This combination represents an
LLW, and breaks even.
Now let’s take a look at all the 32 combinations of Chart 2:
Combination 1 – PPPPP – a winner (W – wins the first bet)
Combination 2 – PPPPB – a winner (W – wins the first bet)
Combination 3 – PPPBP – a winner (W – wins the first bet)
Combination 4 – PPPBB – a winner (W – wins the first bet)
Combination 5 – PPBPP – a winner (LW- loses the first and wins the second bet)
Combination 6 – PPBPB – a winner (LW- loses the first and wins the second bet)
Combination 7 – PPBBP – loses all 3 bets (LLL)
Combination 8 – PPBBB – breaks even (LLW)
Combination 9 – PBPPP – wins (W)
Combination 10 – PBPPB – wins (W)
Combination 11 – PBPBP – wins (W)
Combination 12 – PBPBB – wins (W)
Combination 13 – PBBPP – loses all 3 bets (LLL)
Combination 14 – PBBPB – breaks even (LLW)
Combination 15 – PBBBP – wins (LW)
Combination 16 – PBBBB – wins (LW)
Combination 17 – BPPPP – wins (LW)
Combination 18 – BPPPB – wins (LW)
Combination 19 – BPPBP – breaks even (LLW)
Combination 20 – BPPBB – loses all 3 bets (LLL)
Combination 21 – BPBPP – wins (W)
Combination 22 – BPBPB – wins (W)
Combination 23 – BPBBP – wins (W)

Combination 24 – BPBBB – wins (W)
Combination 25 – BBPPP – breaks even (LLW)
Combination 26 – BBPPB – loses all 3 bets (LLL)
Combination 27 – BBPBP – wins (LW)
Combination 28 – BBPBB – wins (LW)
Combination 29 – BBBPP – wins (W)
Combination 30 – BBBPB – wins (W)
Combination 31 – BBBBP – wins (W)
Combination 32 – BBBBB – wins (W)
We see that out of 32 combinations, 24 are winners, 4 break even and only 4 lose all 3
bets, those being combinations 7, 13, 20 and 26.
There is something common about those losing combinations. Let’s take a close look at
them:
Combination 7 – PPBBP
Combination 13 – PBBPP
Combination 20 – BPPBB
Combination 26 – BBPPB
We observe that they are all part of the same pattern, what we call a 2-2-2 pattern. A 2-2-
2 pattern is the alternation between a double P and a double B, such as PP BB PP BB or
BB PP BB PP, etc. And this is the only pattern causing a triple loss in the first phase.
But don’t worry. That’s why we have a second phase, which will handle those patterns
as well.
As a matter of fact, phase 2 handles nothing but the 2-2-2 pattern. You simply bet 2 units
following this pattern, for as long as the pattern continues. At your first loss, you switch
back to phase 1 following the streak and the chop.
Let’s take an example before we summarize all the rules of Phase 1 and 2.
For example, we have the sequence B P B P P P P B B P P B B P B P.
The first 2 decisions are BP, a chop. We bet 1 unit on B. We win.
Now the last 2 decisions are PB, a chop. We bet 1 unit on P. We win.
Now the last 2 decisions are BP, a chop. We bet 1 unit on B. We lose.
Now the last 2 decisions are PP, a streak. We bet 2 units on P. We win (an LW).
Now the last 2 decisions are PP, a streak. We bet 1 unit on P. We win.

Now the last 2 decisions are PP, a streak. We bet 1 unit on P. We lose.
Now the last 2 decisions are PB, a chop. We bet 2 units on P. We lose our second bet of
the 3-step progression.
Now the last 2 decisions are BB, a streak. We bet 3 units on B. We lose our third bet of
the 3-step progression.
Since we have lost 3 bets in a row (LLL), we now switch to phase 2 and follow the 2-2-2
pattern. Since the last 5 decisions were PPBBP, we bet 2 units on P, hoping the pattern
will continue. We win. Now we bet 2 units on B following BBPPB. We win. We bet 2
units on B and we win. We bet 2 units on B again and we win. We keep following the
pattern and we bet 2 units on P, then on P again, until the pattern breaks with a B.
Now we go back to phase 1 and look at the last 2 decisions, those being PB, a chop. We
bet 1 unit on P and we win.
If we look at our win/loss sequence, in phase 1 we get:
W W L W W L L L, this so far gives us 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 – 6, that is –2 units and we switch to
phase 2, where we get:
+2 +2 +2 +2 – 2 or +6 units, bringing us to +4 and then we win 1 more unit at the last
chop. We finish the above series with +5 units.
What we conclude is that we win every pattern in phase 1, as we have seen in the 32
complete combinations of the 5 decision sequences, except the 2-2-2, which is won in
phase 2, by simply following it.
There will be times, where the pattern 2-2-2 will not continue. In those cases, you will be
sacrificing only 2 units and switching right back to Phase 1 where at least one of the 3
bets will be a winner.

Now we can summarize the rules of the Kiss system.

Rules

Phase 1:

-

Based on the last 2 decisions you bet following a streak (PP or BB), that is on the
same as the last decision or you bet following a chop (PB or BP), that is on the
opposite of the last decision using a 3 step progression 1,2,3.

-

If you win any of the bets within the 3 steps above, you repeat the above process

Phase 2:

-

Should you lose all 3 bets in Phase 1, this means that you are entering a 2-2-2
pattern. Then you keep betting 2 units flat, following PPBBPP, decision after
decision for as long as the pattern lasts.

-

At your first loss, you switch back to Phase 1 to follow a streak or a chop using
the 1,2,3 progression.

Money Management

On the long run, only 4 out of 32 or 12.5% of all 5-bet series will go into phase 2. That
means you will win 87.5% of all series already in Phase 1. In phase 2, if the 2-2-2
pattern continues, the 3 consecutively lost bets in phase 1 will be recovered, at times with
even additional profits. If it doesn’t continue at all, an 8 unit loss will be considered (6
units from LLL and 2 units from a discontinued 2-2-2) for that portion of our bets,
although during the previous and following stages, profits will be made from winning all
other patterns.
Long-term tests have shown that it is advantageous to set a +12 unit profit limit (AFTER
Banker bet commissions) and a –6 unit loss limit per shoe, whichever case happens first.
This way one wins 50% of all shoes played. Out of 100 shoes, for instance, one would
win 50 shoes and lose 50 shoes. This will result in +600 – 300 units or +300 for the 100
shoes or an average of 3 units per shoe.
This way you will also know that you are on a bad shoe right up front. And once you
reach –6 units, you can quit the shoe and join the next one, although the recovery
chances are not slim. However, if you have this strategy set up front, your –6 units will
also not become –26 units for that shoe. You would be limiting your losses greatly.
Customer feedback also suggested that if a shoe goes up to +10 units and starts going
down, it is recommended to lock your profit, by not giving up more than 50% of your win
at that point.
A 30-unit buy-in bankroll and a 60-unit lifetime bankroll should be sufficient for this
system.

Sample Runs

As sample runs, we will take the first 10 shoes of the Zumma Baccarat system tester: 72
Days at the Baccarat Table by Erick St. Germain.
First, some explanation on the contents of the columns of the spreadsheet.

The first column

Sequence is the decision number. If we are joining a shoe from its
beginning, we won’t be placing any bets on the very first bet in order to observe the
outcome. If you have to place a bet, then place a minimum bet on either Banker or
Player, so you will give the impression that you are participating.
Normally, we should not place any bets on the second bet either, since we need to see 2
decisions in order to decide where to bet on. However, again, if you have to place a bet,
just follow the last decision. If Banker, then bet on Banker. If Player, then bet on Player.
Normal play starts at Sequence 3.
The next column Player/Banker simply shows the outcome, the result of the bet, or the
decision.
The column Detected Pattern determines how to bet on your next bet. If Player or
Banker repeated for the last 2 decisions, it marks a Streak, meaning that you will be
betting on the same as the last decision on your next bet. If the last 2 decisions were
different, then it determines a chop pattern, meaning that you will bet on the opposite of
the last decision on your next bet.

Bet on

shows where to place your bet, depending on the Detected Pattern. Please note
that this is valid for Phase 1 only. If you have lost 3 consecutive bets, you are in Phase
2, following the 2-2-2 pattern and you would bet according to the next decision based on
what follows the patterns PPBBP (on P in this case) or BBPPB (on B in this case).

W/L

shows if you won (W) or lost (L) your bet. Again, this is valid for Phase 1 only. In
Phase 2, that is after you have lost 3 times in Phase 1, an L represents a win for the
pattern 2-2-2.

Phase 1 Count Consecutive Losses

counts the number of losses and will help you
identify if you are in Phase 1 or 2. If the count is less than or equal to 3, you are in Phase
1 and every win (W) shown in W/L reflects a true win. If the count is greater than 3, you
should know that you are in Phase 2; you are betting on the pattern 2-2-2 and every L
shown in W/L is actually a win of 2 units. So the greater this count is (as long as it is
more than 3) the better, as you will keep accumulating 2 units per bet.
When the count is 0, that means a win, if you were in Phase 1, or the end of Phase 2.
This is the time you switch back to Phase 1. This may look a bit confusing, but with a
little practice you will get a good feel of it. You just need to keep in mind that when the
count is greater than 3, a loss indicated in W/L is actually a win for you, since you are
now in Phase 2, until this count becomes a 0, meaning a win in Phase 1 (it doesn’t count

for Phase 1, since you are presently in Phase 2) and a loss on Pattern 2-2-2 and the time
to switch back to Phase 1 if you were in Phase 2.

Phase 1 Units

counts the units gained or lost during Phase 1 only. When the count
column is greater than 3, you are in Phase 2 and you will see that we write 0 under this
column.

Phase 1 Units after Commissions

simply calculates the profit left on your win, if your
winning bet was on a Banker bet and registers 95% of your unit value.

Phase 2 Units

accounts for your 2-unit profits, when you are in Phase 2 and are betting
following the 2-2-2 pattern. Please note that when the Phase 1 Count Consecutive
Losses is greater than 3, this is a winning bet for Phase 2 and thus the 2 unit profit is
registered. When the W/L turns into a W after the count being greater than 3, this is a
loss for Pattern 2 and therefore –2 units are registered and time to switch back to Phase
1 to follow a streak or a chop.

Phase 2 Units after Commissions

registers your true profit should you win on a Banker
bet, that is 95% of 2 units, or 1.9 units only for Phase 2.

Net Units

is the sum of your Phase 1 and Phase 2 units and shows where you stand at

any stage within the shoe.