There's a lot of these visitor-mail posts at Beat the Casino, from confused PAID members. This is actually one of the first paid-member mails i looked at. Here it is copied and pasted, less some site filler to make it fit here: (Just think, for $500+ anyone may join the "party". Got banned again for posting this over there. It was up for 2 days during which only two non-organizational persons posted in defence, one to say one of Ellis' systems worked for him the night before; the other (which was likey Ellis) to say Ellis was a good guy. (Gotta be kidding.) Was the only rated thread i've seen there, had over 600 hits before he deleted it.) AND I HAVE YET TO HEAR FROM ANYONE OTHER THAN ELLIS MAKING CLAIMS OF LONG-TERM SUCCESS USING HIS SYSTEM.

Universal Bac Player

Showing Visitor Messages 1 to 2 of 2

1. 03-03-2009 08:29 PM - permalink
   Bud

Hello there. How many more flavors do you think we need lol

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2. 10-20-2008 05:52 PM - permalink
   
   
   justtryingtomakeit
3. 
   
   Steve,
   
   Sorry for taking so long to respond, but YES, the method that I play is still working, but it doesn't have a ridiculous profit margin per shoe (like 15 units per shoe. It's more like 5 to 7 now). It's not easy, and it's definitely frustrating at times when things aren't going smooth straight out of the gate. But, I guess that's the name of the game. Now, what I find crazy is, since I've been a member, I haven't heard about one system that seemed to work consistently for everyone that is using it correctly. I was under the impression that, that was what I was purchasing. Not something that I would have to tweek myself. And I take it that you are still having problems yourself? Please correct me if I am wrong.
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This Page http://www.beatthecasino.com/bb/members/skpeters.html




HERE'S THE LATEST TWIST FROM BTC...

baccatit wrote,

Just play opposite the others if the casino is cheating. . . instead of getting "compliated"?

bacpilot repied,

Re: Just play opposite the others if the casino is cheating. . . instead of getting "compliated"?

This is simple brilliance. . . . . . .

Keith Smith replied,

The saying from other players who have known this is Play the
same with those who are winning and opposite those who are
losing. Change as necessary. I think its a viable strategy

E. Clifton Davis replied,

I see em try that every time I play. But I never saw anybody
win that way. That's what they all do but the casino retains 26% of the
drop. Those are the guys that make Baccarat the #1 profit
maker for the casino. It used to be BJ at 15%. But now its
Baccarat at 26%. The problem with playing against a loser is
that it tends to make him change his ways. Also its VERY
common for a player to go down and then come back up. Now he
wins and YOU lose. If the method you propose worked, the casinos would have gone broke on Baccarat a long time ago. BUT instead, their profits
went from 3% in the late 80's to 26% today because of players
doing exactly what you propose. It just ain't that easy.

baccatit replied,

bacpilot, I'm happy to see at least one person got the point. Whether the casino alters the cards by "washing" and/or shuffling, and did that have any effect on the 'PB. . . ' outcomes, they wouldn't be doing it to lose. Just playing the opposite the others provides an immediate heads up to that (if actually occurring) instead of waiting for the cheating patterns to show up in which case any one can see the new pattern provided it's not later re-altered by the casino again. (Waiters are losers then. ) So. . . play opposite the others just in case the casino is cheating; and if they're not cheating, then that style of play has no more/less to win/lose because the outcomes would then be truly random, for which Davis claims there is no baccarat strategy anyway. (BTW what happened to that post by Julian(?) where Davis says to "wash the cards with your finger tips but not your palms"? Classic. )

Ellis, I thought about that 26% some more. If playing against the other players, doesn't that make me the house. . . and that 26% mine? Why second guess the house or the other players along the way. . . why not just keep that 26% coming? Then the house gets nothing, not even the vig!!!! (And even if there is no 26%, then the house would be limited
to the vig. )

aegis21 replied,

ok, I am truly glad you are happy, that alone made this worth posting! LOL
Now, let me get this straight, you bet against the other players. So If we all did that who would we bet against, ourselves? I alwyas thought that it would be easiest to come up with the worst system in bac and then simply bet against it! Why doesn't anyone do that? There are MANY losing systems on other sites, just get them and bet the opposite and you have a garunteed winner! I hope this isn't above or below you, but you get it.
Thanks for giving me something to do today and smile while I'm doing it! Big smile, big smile!

baccatit replied,

aegis, I guess that's how Ellis ended up with his "netbetting". . . by
second guessing (himself). Well Ellis pulled that thread too, after some strange remarks (gibberish) and I explained that the casino industry as a whole isn't going to allow even one casino to cheat by 26% (as Ellis claims is shown by their PUBLIC profit reports. ) Makes for all 3 legitimate threads pulled. He tries to run to see if he can use those to his advantage. Most people over there seem to fall for it when others post losses, and Ellis replies to say it wasn't played right, etc.

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Here's a copy of another from GG which i posted there but which he soon deleted. It's about his latest "trip report" from Vegas.
Gambler's Glen Message Boards : Baccarat Message Board : Ellis Group Trip Report Posted ...$500 Units in Play !

Here's a thread from the GG in which Ellis(?) revokes another paid member from his "thousands".
Gambler's Glen Message Boards : Baccarat Message Board : Twister SAP Rules